Neu vs. "cheap"

[Darin Jordan]

DJ it is "BUY" not "by"

LOL!!!

I know... it was done intentionally...

There isn't ANYTHING wrong with Nemesis/Fiego motors, or Ammo... etc... I have owned them and won lots of heats with them... but they are NOT "just as good" as a Neu, or Lehner, or Hacker... and it's not something I think we should kid ourselves, or others, about... There IS a difference that goes well beyond price...

Comparing Hacker to Fiego/Nemesis motors... The later is simply a clone of the Hacker... and they perform similiarly most of the time... BUT... When you get EVERYTHING else just right (granted, a VERY rare occurance...)... you WILL see a difference in performance... but that may only be seen by the upper 10% of the racing population... The rest of us may not ever notice the difference...

If I weren't racing where I do, I wouldn't have the $$$ invested in Neus that I do... but I do... so I do... (he... he-he-he.... He said "do-do"... )

And YES, you CAN, and people do, win races with Nemesis motors all the time... the 6L is an EXCELLENT N2-Sport motor! Get the tuning right, and it FLIES...

[Steven Vaccaro]

Darin please post your costs on a 4s mono and performance?

[Darin Jordan]

Darin please post your costs on a 4s mono and performance?

Sure:

• Hull => 33" Delta Force = $145.00
• Motor => Neu 1521 1.5D = $300.00
• ESC => Hydra 240 = $254.00
• Hardware => Speedmaster/Fullers =~ $110.00
  
• Coupler => 8mm = $11.00
• Flex Cable => .187 = $23.00
  
• RX => Hitec DCX = $40.00
• Antenna => Hayes = $8.00
  
• Servo => Hitec 645 or ?? = $40.00
  
• Batteries => Two 4S1P Elite 25C = $336.00
• Prop => Octura X450/3 or ??? = $16.00

Let's see... that's a total of $1283.00... assuming one pays full price as listed above for everything...

Performance... mid-50's to mid-60s for 5-laps on a 1/8th oval... temps in the 100-degree range... Would be a monster on a long straight line pass... Might be faster, this is just an estimate based on lap times...

Of that list... one could save some $$ by using a Hydra 120 instead, and backing off on the prop slightly... which may or may not be necessary... Greg Schweers runs his P-mono, as above, with a Hydra 120 and it works fine...

One could try a 100-dollar motor and see if it could power the hull... I'm sure people are out there doing it... but I'm guessing they are getting higher temps and working things generally harder...

You could also use a smaller Neu motor, 1515 1Y, which has been done successfully, but things can get quite a bit hotter... and the cost isn't significantly different...

I don't usually factor batteries into the equation, because I'd have to buy them regardless of which motor/ESC combo I choose for a given class... Perhaps a lessor combo utilizing 1P instead of 2P would be a savings, but it also wouldn't perform the same... AND, let's face it... in another season, worrying about parallelling will be a thing of the past... as it won't be necessary... The above combo COULD be run on 4S1P, but you'd simply be working the cells harder to do it and, consequently, you'd end up buying a replacement pack much sooner, so to me the cost of 2P comes out in the wash... Also, when the cells stay cool, you can use them in multiple boats during the race-day... I've been able to buy ONE set of 2S2P cells, and use them in two different boats for a round, then recharge and do it again... Done correctly, they just don't get hot...


Did I answer your question???

[Flying Scotsman]

Neu motors are def worth the money as far as quality goes, i have never had a problem with them.
If you take the time to tweak your boat and find the right prop it is able to go fast with less money. There is nothing wrong with Feiago or Nemises motors. I run them as well as Neu's.

Casey is correct: for most boaters including myself the "value for buck motors" are a great option over high quality motors. The questions are how often do you run and are you on the limit of your equipment?
High quality equipment is just that, better bearings, FET's. and build quality, generally speaking they will take more abuse at their advertised limits. You get what you pay for!!!

Doug

[Doug Smock]

But at the same time I saw Doug's Neu come apart in Valdosta. That was strange. The end bell fell off, even with a thrust bearing. Did you get it fixed? This is the only problem I have personally seen with a Neu though. I can't say that for the cheap motors. I have seen them come apart countless times both mine and friends' motors.

I sent if off to be repaired.
It should have a 8mm shaft in it when I get it back.


Doug

[Flying Scotsman]

I sent if off to be repaired.
It should have a 8mm shaft in it when I get it back.


Doug

Doug, Please explain the torque problem, you experienced at Valdosta

Regards,

Douggie

[Darin Jordan]

I sent if off to be repaired.
It should have a 8mm shaft in it when I get it back
Doug

You may already know this, but Steven is carrying the 8mm-.187 couplers, and also the .187 Hughey flex cables....

Meeting the needs of the boating community once again!! Steven so ROCKs!!

Guys... the GREAT thing about this hobby is that there is something out there for EVERYONE! Just because you don't want to spend the $$ on a Neu motor or whatever, doesn't mean you can't be competitive and have a BLAST! Clubs usually have places for EVERYONE to run... Our P-Mono races usually consist of two or three BIG boats, and 5-SV27s in various states of mod... And just ask Corey if he's having fun with his SV... He's carried home more than one trophy for finishing consistently... Heck, I won P-Mono ovarall last weekend with my 26" DH Mono running a Neu motor on 3S Lipos... It's about WAY more than just sheer speed and power...

So bring WHATEVER you have to a race venue near you... I think you'll find it an addicting experience! Then you too will sell off all your other hobby stuff so you can afford to buy some more BOAT STUFF!! Just like I've done! (you REALLY think I could afford this any other way... )

It's ALL about being with friends and having fun... Then trying to kick their butts on the water, of course...

[Steven Vaccaro]

You know I bet the CEO'S of GM, Ford and Chrysler were all discussing similar situations 30 years ago! Wonder what they are saying today.

I bet they feel a bit like this this days

[Steven Vaccaro]

Sure:

• Hull => 33" Delta Force = $145.00
• Motor => Neu 1521 1.5D = $300.00
• ESC => Hydra 240 = $254.00
• Hardware => Speedmaster/Fullers =~ $110.00
  
• Coupler => 8mm = $11.00
• Flex Cable => .187 = $23.00
  
• RX => Hitec DCX = $40.00
• Antenna => Hayes = $8.00
  
• Servo => Hitec 645 or ?? = $40.00
  
• Batteries => Two 4S1P Elite 25C = $336.00
• Prop => Octura X450/3 or ??? = $16.00

Let's see... that's a total of $1283.00... assuming one pays full price as listed above for everything...

Performance... mid-50's to mid-60s for 5-laps on a 1/8th oval... temps in the 100-degree range... Would be a monster on a long straight line pass... Might be faster, this is just an estimate based on lap times...

Of that list... one could save some $$ by using a Hydra 120 instead, and backing off on the prop slightly... which may or may not be necessary... Greg Schweers runs his P-mono, as above, with a Hydra 120 and it works fine...

One could try a 100-dollar motor and see if it could power the hull... I'm sure people are out there doing it... but I'm guessing they are getting higher temps and working things generally harder...

You could also use a smaller Neu motor, 1515 1Y, which has been done successfully, but things can get quite a bit hotter... and the cost isn't significantly different...

I don't usually factor batteries into the equation, because I'd have to buy them regardless of which motor/ESC combo I choose for a given class... Perhaps a lessor combo utilizing 1P instead of 2P would be a savings, but it also wouldn't perform the same... AND, let's face it... in another season, worrying about parallelling will be a thing of the past... as it won't be necessary... The above combo COULD be run on 4S1P, but you'd simply be working the cells harder to do it and, consequently, you'd end up buying a replacement pack much sooner, so to me the cost of 2P comes out in the wash... Also, when the cells stay cool, you can use them in multiple boats during the race-day... I've been able to buy ONE set of 2S2P cells, and use them in two different boats for a round, then recharge and do it again... Done correctly, they just don't get hot...


Did I answer your question???

Thanks for taking the time. You proved what I was after. The main difference in cost would be a $70 motor, instead of a $300 motor. There isnt much of a difference in cost when you think of it in totals. $947 for a mono like Darin's without batteries. or $717 with a Feigao motored boat without batteries. Either way its a big investment.

[Darin Jordan]

You know I bet the CEO'S of GM, Ford and Chrysler were all discussing similar situations 30 years ago! Wonder what they are saying today.

I bet they feel a bit like this this days

Yah... but then, Hondas and Toyotas aren't "bargains" these days either... Not as far as cost is concerned... They are big investments now too... Actually... they may BE the "Neu" motor of the car world...

Of course, there is always Hyundai or Kia or Saturn... Those are your "cheap" brands nowadays...

I think GM is more like Hacker... Good... decent quality... but perhaps not the best overall...

[Darin Jordan]

Thanks for taking the time.

No problem... anything to help keep the hobby growing... information helps...

It IS a big investment... but the nice thing about it is that someone can get the boat built, hopefully doing it in a way that upgrading is possible, and then run it for awhile on a less expensive motor package... They can always step up later... motors are easy to change if you plan ahead on your build... that's what I've always done...

[C.Smock]

depending on your income a $200 diffrence can be huge though...

[Darin Jordan]

I'll tell you this much... I spend a WHOLE lot less on RC boating and racing in a season than my little brother does on BASS FISHING!!

[Fluid]

Performance... mid-50's to mid-60s for 5-laps on a 1/8th oval... temps in the 100-degree range... Would be a monster on a long straight line pass... Might be faster, this is just an estimate based on lap times...

No flame, and I realize that these are just estimates Darin, but considering that Brian's current Q Mono SAW record (Neu motor) is under 60 mph on flat water, don't you think that your speed estimates may be a bit on the high side for oval race water? It isn't always about power with monos - it is as much about design and setup.



.

[Flying Scotsman]

[QUOTE=Fluid;14781]? It isn't always about power with monos - it is as much about design and setup

Fluid, you are dead right!!