P-Spec Motors

[Ctonez]

I have an interesting question: Why is the cost of the motor so important but nobody cares if you use a $250+ ESC? For that matter, how about battery price (40C thunder power packs for spec )?

Last season I ran UL-1 motors in rigger, tunnel, sport hydro, BJ26 in the mono. UL-1 escs with an added capacitor. $86 4S 4100 mah 25C Neu cells. No failures and better than average performance. Maybe the motor is the least of the concerns for the spec class.

Good to know about the supply issue.
To answer your Q - it depends who you ask.
I run SV motor and ESC in everything except my Pmono - all with inexpensive 2-year old 30c Elites, that's four boats. Also no failures and I'd say better than average performance, so at least we're getting close to the mark. I have no plans to change my setups, because they work, they're competitive in our club, and I still have spares. I believe our goal is to keep it so my setups are still competitive with your setups and Gregs/Darins.
The 1800kv was approved because there was no advantage demonstrated by the one member who ran it last season...we did not take into account the fact that that class uses a spec prop too.
The 1800kv Ammo may indeed be able to spin a prop that makes it much faster in classes where prop is open.

[Ub Hauled]

I think having a few motors (about 3) would be great, if the ESC was spec'd as well (ESC from the RTR boats), then it would be awesome... that would keep the price of the class very affordable and easy to find

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Will,
Remember that LSH and LSO haven't officially been run as they appear in the rule book since 2006. The 2007 nats ran them as unoffical classes because they ran with LiPos before they were officialy legal. The 2008 nats ran with P-spec power rather than the legal brushed 700's. 2009 again ran P-spec power and LSO magicly became a 4 minute race instead of 10 laps. So in essence, those classes haven't actually been run for the last 3 seasons. We should stop using the class names for something they aren't.

Plus, there were 7 exhibition classes at the nats in 2009, the 4 spec classes plus production, ultimate offshore and sprint. Backing it down to 5 will be an improvement.

Yes, backing it down to 5 will be an improvement.
I would like to see classes run by the books, I'm just not excited about so many classes spec'd out to a series of power plants that are far from spec.

I don't care all that much, because whatever the turnout, I'll have fun racing. The Gold motor should be the only one unless there's another of the same poles, wind, length, and diameter. Rotor specs don't matter as much whereas they can be left as a "tuning" option

I've got a concept brewing that hopefully racers will adopt that features true spec perameters, and thrilling oval speeds

Furthermore, I've got news for those using high amp high dollar speedos for UL1 motors. WASTE OF TIME. a heavy speedo becomes a resistor at low current, the UL1 speedo is enough, a 70 amp speedo is perfect.

[raptor347]

Yes, backing it down to 5 will be an improvement.
I would like to see classes run by the books, I'm just not excited about so many classes spec'd out to a series of power plants that are far from spec.

I don't care all that much, because whatever the turnout, I'll have fun racing. The Gold motor should be the only one unless there's another of the same poles, wind, length, and diameter. Rotor specs don't matter as much whereas they can be left as a "tuning" option

I've got a concept brewing that hopefully racers will adopt that features true spec perameters, and thrilling oval speeds

Furthermore, I've got news for those using high amp high dollar speedos for UL1 motors. WASTE OF TIME. a heavy speedo becomes a resistor at low current, the UL1 speedo is enough, a 70 amp speedo is perfect.

Actually changing the rotor in the 4 and 6 pole motors makes a huge difference. That's how we tuned the old aveox 1409/1y's I wound in the 90's (F5D pylon motors). I had a dozen rotors where I'd machined the steel core block to change the air gap in .005" steps. That one wind would run 3800-4800kV depending on which rotor I put in. That's just changing the mechanical air gap between the rotor and stator stack. It really gets interesting when you start playing with magnet material.

I believe Neu has different rotor designs for D and Y wind motors.

The size of the esc isn't the issue, it's the adjustability. You can get an extra ~10% if you get the timing and swiching rate right. Remember with higher pole count you get more switching losses.

[Darin Jordan]

The Gold motor should be the only one unless there's another of the same poles, wind, length, and diameter. .

I can't agree with this... you pick one motor like this, and you end up with one or two hulls that'll work... As was found last year, there are plenty of applications where the "blue" motors are more than a match for the gold ones. You just have to match the hulls to the power system, and then find that final 10% or so with the right prop....

The motors spec'd now put out similiar power, just in different ways, so it keeps many different hull combos viable.

I think the real problem would come if motors were spec'd that are completely different designs, or that deviate considerably from the basic motors currently spec'd....

.... but what do I know....

[Littlescreamers]

Darin,

I have a motor I would like you to Dyno. for NAMBA Is that possible?

Scott

[BILL OXIDEAN]

I can't agree with this... you pick one motor like this, and you end up with one or two hulls that'll work... As was found last year, there are plenty of applications where the "blue" motors are more than a match for the gold ones. You just have to match the hulls to the power system, and then find that final 10% or so with the right prop....

The motors spec'd now put out similiar power, just in different ways, so it keeps many different hull combos viable.

I think the real problem would come if motors were spec'd that are completely different designs, or that deviate considerably from the basic motors currently spec'd....

.... but what do I know....

True, I for one confess that my opc just cant take the gold motor so I run the blue and its PERFECT! good point
Darrin, I also have to confess that I copied you by printing my sponsors at the bottom in all those colors

[Brushless55]

Ok, so between the BJ motor SV motor and UL-1 motor, what motor do you all like best?

[raptor347]

Ok, so between the BJ motor SV motor and UL-1 motor, what motor do you all like best?

It depends on the boat. For boats that like big props, run the bj26 or sv27 motor. If you're running a boat that likes small props, go with a UL-1 motor.

[Darin Jordan]

Ok, so between the BJ motor SV motor and UL-1 motor, what motor do you all like best?

I'd choose between the BJ and the UL-1 motor, and the answer would depend on what hull and class you are referring to, and what type of race... It all depends. There is NOT a concrete answer to this question, which is exactly the point of the spec the way it's currently written in the first place...

And, the only reason why I shy away from the SV27 motor, is that I've had a lot of trouble trying to solder contacts to the wires for this motor. Power-wise, it has a TON of torque, and can power a BIG prop on a decent sized hull.... Still VERY competitive with the correct setup!

[Brushless55]

I'd choose between the BJ and the UL-1 motor, and the answer would depend on what hull and class you are referring to, and what type of race... It all depends. There is NOT a concrete answer to this question, which is exactly the point of the spec the way it's currently written in the first place...

And, the only reason why I shy away from the SV27 motor, is that I've had a lot of trouble trying to solder contacts to the wires for this motor. Power-wise, it has a TON of torque, and can power a BIG prop on a decent sized hull.... Still VERY competitive with the correct setup!

Thanks Darin!

[Ctonez]

I run SV power in 4 seperate classes. My boats run "VERY" competitively in all four as long as I drive decently. As Darin says, that's the point of the spec class. Motor choice allows us to play around with our setups and see what works best for different hulls and situations, but we all run similar speeds when the boats are setup well. I run a different prop on every boat despite running the same power system. The cool thing about running the same power setup in several boats (besides always having spares) is that you learn a lot about hull handling and dynamics and how to drive different hulls in race conditions.
Why I've stuck with SV power? I know it. I trust it. I already have it.

[Ub Hauled]

I like the "blue can" as well... what ESC do you use Corey?

[Ctonez]

original SV also. When Steve put the combo deal on sale, I got a few.
Reliable, durable, strong, inexpensive...some other reasons I like both the ESC and motor.
I do have one SV motor that I've been running for 3 racing seasons in my spec SV that is showing some wear, but it's still one of the quicker SV's in the club...often called "the cheater boat" by fellow club members because it is so well dialed. The irony is that it's more "spec" than most of the boats in our club if one were to tech all the SV's.
There is 1/4 inch endplay in that motor...I run thrust bearings to see if I can prolong it's life, but I expect next year may be its last. I'll run it 'til it slows or blows.Not bad if you ask me.

[Ub Hauled]

I have a couple of those and one can spin a big tricked wheel with it and no heat issues.
It amazes me that it seem to be pulling more then the 45amps that the ESC offers, but it
does not flinch.