TP Power CM vs SVM

[Ivan Kozyakov]

Hi guys!


Pls explain the difference between the CM and SVM series of TP motors? There is no comparison on the manufacturer's website. The dealer told me there was a slight difference in power and rpm. But what is the difference in design? Does it make sense to overpay for SVM if I don't need such max rpm?

Mod.: TP4060-CM
Max.power: 7000W
Cont. Power: 3500W
Max RPM: 78K


Motor mod.: TP4060-SVM
Max power: 7,600W
Cont. Power: 4,000W
Max RPM: 82K

[koen]

for a boat the regular 4060 will perform better ,these cm and svm are better in cars

[Panther6834]

Agreed...the 'base' models are perfect for boats. The 'custom' models are directed specifically at surface vehicles...primarily used by speedrunners & drag racers.

Sent from my SM-S928U using Tapatalk

[Ivan Kozyakov]

I forgot to say that my boat is for SAW-races, the rpm under load can be around 40,000.
Is it still a regular series?

[koen]

it's no problem for a regular motor but for esc go for castle because TP's are amp hogg's

[fweasel]

Tyler Garrard (RaceMechanix) posted a chart explaining the differences between all TP Power series motors. I can't find it at the moment, but will PM him and ask if he can post it again.

[Ivan Kozyakov]

Tyler Garrard (RaceMechanix) posted a chart explaining the differences between all TP Power series motors. I can't find it at the moment, but will PM him and ask if he can post it again.

I'm looking forward to it. One of these days I'm going to buy one of these motors. Summer is coming, time to set records!

[Speed2]

I have learned from experience some cans are more powerful than other cans.

I don't hear people speaking highly of the Leopards like they do the TP power motors. But I can tell you guys the new Leopards have alot more power in they cans than the older Leopards. I have a TP power 4060 1950kv that I bought in 2018.

The current batch of Leopards 4092 cans are way more powerful than the TP powers cans. Atleast those from 2018 and earlier.

I think the new Leopards should have power like the neus in saw applications.

[koen]

on there facebook page you find the divergence between all there motors

[fweasel]

This is not the chart I know I saw somewhere, but these are a few facts from Tyler Garrard regarding the SVM and CM series:

"Boats do not need the SVM or CM series. The sleeve on the rotor kills performance and causes the ESC to run quite hot."

"The SVM motors typically have a metallic sleeve and larger airgap. This reduces the precision of the BEMF rotor position calculation which taxes the ESC. Recommended to not use any of the SVM motors. The standard configurations are fine."

[fweasel]

Found the graphic I saw posted on Facebook...

TP_Power.jpg

[donhuff]

The biggest difference between regular TPs and the CM/SVM series, is that the cm/svm have a one piece cylindrical magnet. Not glued on and wrapped segmented magnets. That cylinder magnet is why the cm/svm have a higher "MECHANICAL" rpm redline, which is the rpm max that most manufacturers put on their motors. There is probably a little "cushion" rpm there I'm sure. It's not like if you go over that line by 10 rpm it will let go, but if you go 5-10,000 over, then you should expect the rotor to sling it's self apart. That's what the carbon fiber and kevlar wrap is there for. To up that rpm redline before damage occurs.

That cylinder magnet usually has been ground or cast, with very shallow peaks and valleys. They are hard to see but easy to feel. The peaks are where the POLES are located. You'll find 2 pole and 4 pole rotors in the TPs. No idea as to why??

I have received for repair several of the CM/SVM types and all I can do is rewind it, they are usually burned up when the rotor dies. Those rotor are very easy to kill with not much heat. I had one die on me while holding it in my hand and running it to test a new rewind. It was a really high kv (7600kv) TP 4040 for a 2S saw attempt. I ran it up to full rpm around 60,000 rpm, and it ran good. I tried it a second time, and it was dead. I disassembled it and found that the rotor and stator had touched in one tiny spot. Since that one I have seen that same damage in 4 or 5 customer motors.

This must have happened a lot in the CMs, because the SVMs have a .020" bigger diameter hole in the stator. And the SVMs have a groove cut down the middle in each stator tooth, and again I have no idea what it's for.

The cylinder magnet rotors are very slightly larger diameter. But strip off the carbon wrap to get an accurate measure of the magnets and that difference is more meaningful. Seems like around .010" to .020". That still doesn't seem like a lot but small increases in the diameter of the rotor have a huge affect on the torque of a motor. It also increases the "rotor displacement", much like boring a car engine for bigger pistons and more displacement. This might be why the cm/svm have a little higher max watts (HP) rating.

I have given up on the cm/svm series for my record boats, and use regular rotor in my motors now. I adjust the kv to get the rpm right at, or just slightly above the recommended rpm max. Because when in the water, the rpm will be much lower and well into the "safe" region.

[donhuff]

koen,

"it's no problem for a regular motor but for esc go for castle because TP's are amp hogg's"

Why do you say that? I have seen that posted several times and I wonder where it comes from, and why it keeps getting repeated.

[Ivan Kozyakov]

Yes. Thank you!

[Ivan Kozyakov]

The biggest difference between regular TPs and the CM/SVM series, is that the cm/svm have a one piece cylindrical magnet. Not glued on and wrapped segmented magnets. That cylinder magnet is why the cm/svm have a higher "MECHANICAL" rpm redline, which is the rpm max that most manufacturers put on their motors. There is probably a little "cushion" rpm there I'm sure. It's not like if you go over that line by 10 rpm it will let go, but if you go 5-10,000 over, then you should expect the rotor to sling it's self apart. That's what the carbon fiber and kevlar wrap is there for. To up that rpm redline before damage occurs.

That cylinder magnet usually has been ground or cast, with very shallow peaks and valleys. They are hard to see but easy to feel. The peaks are where the POLES are located. You'll find 2 pole and 4 pole rotors in the TPs. No idea as to why??

I have received for repair several of the CM/SVM types and all I can do is rewind it, they are usually burned up when the rotor dies. Those rotor are very easy to kill with not much heat. I had one die on me while holding it in my hand and running it to test a new rewind. It was a really high kv (7600kv) TP 4040 for a 2S saw attempt. I ran it up to full rpm around 60,000 rpm, and it ran good. I tried it a second time, and it was dead. I disassembled it and found that the rotor and stator had touched in one tiny spot. Since that one I have seen that same damage in 4 or 5 customer motors.

This must have happened a lot in the CMs, because the SVMs have a .020" bigger diameter hole in the stator. And the SVMs have a groove cut down the middle in each stator tooth, and again I have no idea what it's for.

The cylinder magnet rotors are very slightly larger diameter. But strip off the carbon wrap to get an accurate measure of the magnets and that difference is more meaningful. Seems like around .010" to .020". That still doesn't seem like a lot but small increases in the diameter of the rotor have a huge affect on the torque of a motor. It also increases the "rotor displacement", much like boring a car engine for bigger pistons and more displacement. This might be why the cm/svm have a little higher max watts (HP) rating.

I have given up on the cm/svm series for my record boats, and use regular rotor in my motors now. I adjust the kv to get the rpm right at, or just slightly above the recommended rpm max. Because when in the water, the rpm will be much lower and well into the "safe" region.

Very interesting. Do you think the regular series will be able to operate stably in the range of 40-45,000 rpm? According to the manual, they have a maximum of 50,000.
I am not going to use such rpm right now, only 35-40,000. But probably someday I will want to rev this motor to the limit.