TP 5850 vs LMT 3060 or perhaps, 155$ vs 510$... and??

[nichismo]

Well I have been doing a good amount of research into TP Power motors as of recent and have been very intrigued as to why I have waited so long to do this. Baffling to me is the respective positive feedback (Which seems almost unanimous from my own perspective) and their retail price range. And just as common as all this, is the apparent notion that TP is in general terms very underrated. For me, this was especially interesting as the first motor I ever purchased for my first boat build ever, was a Leopard 5698, and this was under the assumption as it was a good value and they seem to be very abundant in FE boating.

That being said, ive always had a strong desire to own a top teir Lehner motor, perhaps a 2280 or 3040 (im into large scale hydros), and came very close to ordering 1 direct from LMT on a few occassions, the wait time and shipping being the main drawback. Even moreso glad now however that I did not.

If you may, please watch these two videos, both of these boats respectively running the motors mentioned in thread title (5850 / 3060). Each is running the exact same hull (CT05 hydroplane, 61 inches long, 30 inches wide, 30+ lbs), and both are just about at the same speed of 65mph. The main difference im aware of is the LMT is on 10s2p, while the 5850 is on 12s2p, however the LMT is a 6 wind, or 1167kv which would equal to 43179rpm, whereas the 5850 is 820kv which equals to 36080 rpm.

5850 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ib0z3fGcnkg
3060 - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7sYPZzmysU


This being said, can anyone provide me a solid justification as to why spend about 350$ extra for the Lehner motor?

[kfxguy]

I too longed to own a high end Lehner. So I bought a couple and one for a buddy of mine. The first one I had failed within a month. I'm still waiting to see if it can be repaired. Then the one that was for my buddy failed a couple days ago. The shaft slid out of it. It slid to the side the shaft sticks out. No reason why. 8mm shaft. Both of these motors were both purchased brand new on my part and they were 2260's. The other one that I had probably would have failed by now (with the track record I've had experience with) but that boat sank. Now....I've never had a neu fail, castle or tp fail. I've got way more run times on other motors besides the lehners. I'll go out on a limb and say I'm no longer a Lehner fan. Try and ship one back to have it repaired. O and there's really no warranty on them and the average price (from what I've researched) is about $200+ for repair. I'd rather stick with my original idea of I can buy four motors for the price of one and I'm pretty sure those four motors will last a lot longer (as it stands now everything else I own has outlasted my Lehner anyway, so much for the idea of getting a premium reliable motor). This is just my personal experience. I'm sure there's many others that may have had good luck with them, but I haven't. I see no good reason why cheaper motors are out lasting them in the same kind of situations I put them through. I'm pretty much done using super expensive escs and motors when I can accomplish the same thing for a lot less money and still not have a warranty either way.

[RaceMechaniX]

Travis,

The Lehner failures sound uncommon based on my experiences. I am an authorized distributor and repair shop for LMT motor's. I would be happy to take a look for you and take them apart. If they can be easily serviced I will do so free of labor charge. You only pay shipping and for parts if necessary.

Yes there is a significant cost difference between a Lehner, TP, Neu, Leopard, HET, Castle, etc. Quality of materials, engineering and cost of labor have major impact on the final price. If the Lehner's were made in China with appropriate locally sourced materials they would likely have similar pricing. A good comparison is a Neu 1515 and a Castle 1515. Both are based on Steve Neu's design, but one is made in the US and one is made in China. Both perform very similarly, but the Castle is half the cost.

In full disclosure I have probably failed more LMT motors than most other modelers and some have been the result of freak occurrences, but the majority are me pushing them well beyond practical sporting limits. The simple fact is LMT's can push more power given a similar frame size than 99% of the competitors.

Are there better "bang for the buck" motors, absolutely.

My service offer extends to anyone with a Lehner motor.

Tyler

[RandyatBBY]

Good to know that you are a authorized distributor and repair shop for LMT motor's. I have a 2280 12t motor that I raced in my 1/8 Scale for 4 to 6 years. About 8 or 10 years ago it died. Due to the high cost of shipping and repair at Lehener I have put it off. When I have the funds next year I will contact you to see if it is repairable. It is one of the twin turn motors.

Dollar for dollar I feel the Neu is a much better option, a 1530 will save about $100 easy. IMO

[kfxguy]

Thanks Tyler. The motor has a severe vibration that makes the cap unscrew. It's also changed from 1600ish kv to 4000ish kv. How I have no idea how. It ran just fine the last time I ran it then the next time as I was getting up on plane it blew up my mind esc. I'm not too worried much about it anymore as I ordered a neu 1530 to replace it. Keith has it right now and has attempted to send it back to Germany once already and the postal service sent it back. If I get it back I'll send it to you.

[RaceMechaniX]

Travis,

Something very odd happened with your motor then. The change in KV must be due to an internal short likely as a result of temperature. If the main body section unscrewed from the cap do I assume correctly the rear of the motor was unsupported?

When you get it back from Keith, send me a PM for my address.

Tyler

[NativePaul]

Or the magnets demagnetised, again as a result of temperature, that will send the KV through the roof too.

[ray schrauwen]

Or the magnets demagnetised, again as a result of temperature, that will send the KV through the roof too.

When demagnetisation happens can you feel it when turning the rotor by hand or is only a small amount of demagnetisation required for this to happen?

Basically is there any way to tell physically when it happens?

[keithbradley]

I think the second motor Travis is talking about is his friend Brandon's, who ran his 1700kv 2260 on 9s with a fairly large prop in a Cheetah hull...travis can correct me if I'm wrong here, but in that case, I say it's the nature of the beast. Part of learning how to go fast may require experimenting, but when the experiment doesn't work out, you kind of have to take responsibility for the result. I've made some mistakes and it's cost me some motors and ESCs, but I'm not surprised when it happens. If you want longevity, perpetually increasing voltage and prop size is probably not the best plan.

To the OP: I think when you get into big boat/big prop/lower RPM setups, there are diminished returns in regard to spending the extra money on Lehner. Each motor design (Neu and LMT) has it's strengths and weaknesses. The LMT motors are quite efficient at higher RPM, while the 4-pole design is limited by centrifugal force in this regard. I also think LMT motors are easier on ESCs than 4 pole motors.

[RaceMechaniX]

Ray
Lehners are an iron less design and do not have detents like a Neu. Hence you cannot feel if the rotor has been demagnetized. If you short adjacent phases you can feel added resistance.

Tyler

[keithbradley]

Thanks Tyler. The motor has a severe vibration that makes the cap unscrew. It's also changed from 1600ish kv to 4000ish kv. How I have no idea how. It ran just fine the last time I ran it then the next time as I was getting up on plane it blew up my mind esc. I'm not too worried much about it anymore as I ordered a neu 1530 to replace it. Keith has it right now and has attempted to send it back to Germany once already and the postal service sent it back. If I get it back I'll send it to you.

Travis, I still have your motor here. After talking to Andi, he confirmed that the address I used was correct, and also said that he regularly receives packages sent via USPS, so I don't really know what to do different. I'm going to just re-send the other couple motors here and keep my fingers crossed. I can send your with that shipment, or send it to Tyler if you like.

[kfxguy]

I think the second motor Travis is talking about is his friend Brandon's, who ran his 1700kv 2260 on 9s with a fairly large prop in a Cheetah hull...travis can correct me if I'm wrong here, but in that case, I say it's the nature of the beast. Part of learning how to go fast may require experimenting, but when the experiment doesn't work out, you kind of have to take responsibility for the result. I've made some mistakes and it's cost me some motors and ESCs, but I'm not surprised when it happens. If you want longevity, perpetually increasing voltage and prop size is probably not the best plan.

To the OP: I think when you get into big boat/big prop/lower RPM setups, there are diminished returns in regard to spending the extra money on Lehner. Each motor design (Neu and LMT) has it's strengths and weaknesses. The LMT motors are quite efficient at higher RPM, while the 4-pole design is limited by centrifugal force in this regard. I also think LMT motors are easier on ESCs than 4 pole motors.

Yes it's Brandon I'm referring to. He didn't run 9s that I know of. If he did, he didn't tell me because He knows I'd be upset because I warned him not to. Guess it would be a told-you-so type of thing lol. He mainly ran it on 6s and 7s but when he was chasing speed he did run it on 8s. For comparison (sort of) I had a neu 1521 1900kv that had lots and lots of runs on it, I ran it mostly on 7s which I'd figure is very close to the same rpm. Maybe it was a fluke in my case and Brandon's case, I dunno. I do like the motors no doubt, but I don't have the budget to afford failures like I've experienced. Maybe I'll try another one in the future if I'm attempting an all out boat, but as for now I'm just having fun and the cheaper motors seem to be fitting the bill better for me.

[kfxguy]

I think the second motor Travis is talking about is his friend Brandon's, who ran his 1700kv 2260 on 9s with a fairly large prop in a Cheetah hull...travis can correct me if I'm wrong here, but in that case, I say it's the nature of the beast. Part of learning how to go fast may require experimenting, but when the experiment doesn't work out, you kind of have to take responsibility for the result. I've made some mistakes and it's cost me some motors and ESCs, but I'm not surprised when it happens. If you want longevity, perpetually increasing voltage and prop size is probably not the best plan.

To the OP: I think when you get into big boat/big prop/lower RPM setups, there are diminished returns in regard to spending the extra money on Lehner. Each motor design (Neu and LMT) has it's strengths and weaknesses. The LMT motors are quite efficient at higher RPM, while the 4-pole design is limited by centrifugal force in this regard. I also think LMT motors are easier on ESCs than 4 pole motors.

Yes it's Brandon I'm referring to. He didn't run 9s that I know of. If he did, he didn't tell me because He knows I'd be upset because I warned him not to. Guess it would be a told-you-so type of thing lol. He mainly ran it on 6s and 7s but when he was chasing speed he did run it on 8s. For comparison (sort of) I had a neu 1521 1900kv that had lots and lots of runs on it, I ran it mostly on 7s which I'd figure is very close to the same rpm. Maybe it was a fluke in my case and Brandon's case, I dunno. I do like the motors no doubt, but I don't have the budget to afford failures like I've experienced. Maybe I'll try another one in the future if I'm attempting an all out boat, but as for now I'm just having fun and the cheaper motors seem to be fitting the bill better for me.

[keithbradley]

Yes it's Brandon I'm referring to. He didn't run 9s that I know of. If he did, he didn't tell me because He knows I'd be upset because I warned him not to. Guess it would be a told-you-so type of thing lol. He mainly ran it on 6s and 7s but when he was chasing speed he did run it on 8s. For comparison (sort of) I had a neu 1521 1900kv that had lots and lots of runs on it, I ran it mostly on 7s which I'd figure is very close to the same rpm. Maybe it was a fluke in my case and Brandon's case, I dunno. I do like the motors no doubt, but I don't have the budget to afford failures like I've experienced. Maybe I'll try another one in the future if I'm attempting an all out boat, but as for now I'm just having fun and the cheaper motors seem to be fitting the bill better for me.

Definitely not a fluke in his case...it was only a matter of time. Running his motor on 9s would be more comparable to running your 1900kv 1521 on 9s, not 7s. I think it was probably a fun experiment, but hopefully lesson learned.

[RaceMechaniX]

Incrimination via YouTube! Hard landings have also been killers of motors.