Motor timing and Torque

[Gary]

There has been a lot of post's on timing for motors but one thing that has not been mentioned is the efect on motor torque from timing. Will a lower timing number increase torque on high rpm's or does higher numbers automatically raise torque and power? Or is there no efect on torque ......just rpm increase? Any thoughts on this?

[Boaterguy]

Interesting question, isn't the timing how far ahead of the magnet the coil will activate? if so, the in would be like pulling your arm on a bar, the farther you reached the less power you have. This is all a guess, the answer will be interesting.

[Lockk]

Simple answer is timing wont have much effect, but if you fail to put timing in or its far enough out to create significant heat then torque will be affected. Heat is not Mr. magnets friend!

Torque is linear with current and RPM is linear with voltage (in general) when speaking about a BLDC motor so torque is significantly more affected by current then timing, our ESC's have timing because they are sensor-less (Tekin actually makes ESC & motors that are sensored) and for the way most of us drive (I know one speed WOTH ) fixed timing works.

[Fluid]

Actually many/most ESC do not use "fixed" timing but instead have variable timing in their programing. Sensored BL motors are old skool, Aveox sold only sensored motors for years before Hacker and Lehner motors became popular in the US during the late 1990s. The only reason that car motor companies like Tekin et al sell sensored setups is because these have more precise part-throttle/brake control for scooting around a tight race course in traffic.

Timing has more to do with motor efficiency and if set wrong for the motor characteristics and amp loading the motor/ESC will overheat. You can gain some power with some motors by advancing the timing but gong too far can cause damage. Too little timing for the motor/current can mean overheating too. You won't see much difference in torque by playing with timing.


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[HTVboats]

My understanding is a "Y" wind motor is a higher rpm and timmed different than a "D" wind motor, which has more torque and uses little timming. How do you find out what each motor needs for timming? Is it something the manufacturers have charted somewhere? My Swordfish has 3 settings low-med-high with what looks to be some overlap. My Castle ESC can be programmed to any timming in one degree increments. Or just use auto settings?

[BILL OXIDEAN]

Yes timing affects torque!

Modern advancements have changed things a bit.
Our newer motors sensored or not have physical timing advance on the motor itself meaning you can adjust the timing on the motor itself as well as the speedo.

Our new speedos have an astounding amount of timing advance 65deg to be exact.
Advancing the timing on the speedo has little affect on torque characteristics, but the physical timing on the motor has just about everything to do with torque vs rpm. Crank the endbell up and rpm increases.

Torque increases right along with it to a point then rpm continues to ramp up, while torque goes downhill. Every motor has a powerband and it can be optimized with the prop.

Timing advance is a double edge sword. It can seem like free speed to a degree but pass its threshold and you're throwin' a barbeacue.

The key is to optimize the powerband through timing advance and that can only be done by checking temps and monitioring performance as you go up.

To answer your question, YES timing DEFINITELY affects torque as the rpms increase.

[dana]

[QUOTE=HTVboats;343444]My understanding is a "Y" wind motor is a higher rpm and timmed different than a "D" wind motor, which has more torque and uses little timming. How do you find out what each motor needs for timming?




i disagree with this. i have 2 leopard motors, both are "y" wind but one is 2200kv the other 1700kv. im still trying to figure out timing as well.... is timing based on the wind or the kv? anyone? i have them set to 15

[BILL OXIDEAN]

For what you guys are doing, some depends on how many poles the motor is.

[m4a1usr]

The answer is pretty simple to the question of which type motor has more torque. A "Y" type winding has more torque at a given RPM then a "D" winding. Thats because each winding is exposed to a larger magnetic field. To measure a motors torque, one of the calculations is magnetic flux lines per centimeter squared, per magnet pole. Since a "Y" motors construction is 2 series of windings per phase, the rotor is exposed to a larger field density. For more information on motors and their behavior read this. http://www.reliance.com/mtr/mtrthrmn.htm

John

[lectriglide]

My understanding is a "Y" wind motor is a higher rpm and timmed different than a "D" wind motor, which has more torque and uses little timming. How do you find out what each motor needs for timming? Is it something the manufacturers have charted somewhere? My Swordfish has 3 settings low-med-high with what looks to be some overlap. My Castle ESC can be programmed to any timming in one degree increments. Or just use auto settings?

The general rule seems to be "D" winds use lower timing (0-10 degrees) while "Y" winds like (10-15 degrees). I have a doc with a bunch if "snippets" from various threads about timing somewhere on my work computer. If anyone's interested, I'll find it.

[tunnelvision]

The general rule seems to be "D" winds use lower timing (0-10 degrees) while "Y" winds like (10-15 degrees). I have a doc with a bunch if "snippets" from various threads about timing somewhere on my work computer. If anyone's interested, I'll find it.

I would definitely like to see that when you get a chance. Thanks!

[Rumdog]

Seems true. However D winds while some call them amp hog (which isnt actually true) Have for me had more balls than any othe motor. Specifically the 1527 1.5d. The motor is a torquey beast at any rpm at 5 or 6s for timing, d winds run more efficiently at 0-10 degrees. Y winds run great at 15 from my experience and from tips from other experienced boaters.

[JIM MARCUM]

Here are the timing tables for SeaKing ESCs. Should work for any brushless motor ESC combo.

[Mel279]

hi guys

I would like to know if my 4082 1600kv motor is a Y or D winding? Im not familiar with those terminology.

[Fluid]

http://www.leopardhobby.com/product/product_veiws.asp?id=1417&functionID=01020201

That motor is a 2Y wind.


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