Highest Quality LiPo Packs

[10gauge]

What are the highest quality LiPo packs these days?

I'm convinced that it's worth spending extra for quality. Last time I cycle charged my LiPos were in 2012. My Enerland (Korean) 25C LiPo from RC LiPos have held up very well - open circuit 3.9V/cell and charged beautifully with no heat, with immeasurable 0.0V internal resistance. Whereas, the Elite 30C LiPos are bloated pieces of junk now.

Thanks

[Doby]

Get ready for 100 different opinions....

[10gauge]

Great to hear from you, Doby! It's been 5 years since I last ran a boat, no worries as I'll filter responses based on racing experience of a select few that I'm already familiar. In forums, you have to chose your experts. :)

[keithbradley]

The problem is that even when "choosing experts", you will get fan boy opinions from people who think what they run is good, but have very little or no actual evidence to support why they say their brand/type is better. There are plenty of people who have done actual tests, compared logs between brands/types, etc., but that info is usually met with "yeah, but still..." or "I don't care what your data says, I know what's good". When a brand that is NOT a "forum favorite" and NOT sold by someone on a given forum but gets a lot of support, people react negatively. There was a brand that recently got a lot of attention because people were getting results that were noticeably better than other brands out there, but people WHO NEVER USED THEM responded by calling the feedback people were posting "hype" or even "spam". Eventually it worked, people stopped posting, and we're all just as dumb as we were before people were sharing their experiences. I'm not going to mention the brand. I'd rather not be accused of "hyping" something by people who get their feelings hurt when they find out that what they are running might not be "the best".

I will try to help you without telling you what I PERSONALLY think is the best though:

Whatever you choose, realize that with any lipo, what you think you knew a year or two (or longer) ago doesn't matter now. A brand that was great two years ago may be crap now, even if they're charging top prices. A lot of people are willing to "pay for the best", but don't realize that the most expensive is not always the best. I recently talked with a customer about replacing his lipos and he was astounded that the lipos I recommended were half the price of the lipos he had. He even double checked and said "You know those are a lot cheaper than what I'm running, right?"

There was a time when a couple brands were top of the line and they charged top price for their cells. They're still charging top price, but they're not selling the same cells they once were. They are still sworn by among people who just "know what they know".

[10gauge]

Thanks Keith! I've only used 3 kinds of LiPos:

HobbyKing 4S/4100mAh/15C - bloated and junked.
Elite 3S/4500/30C - bloated and junked.
Enerland PolyRC 4S2P and 6S2P 5000mAh/25C - has withstood the test of time and are excellent after numerous runs.

I had bought $1,200 worth of LiPos from RCLipos.com in 2009, so I e-mailed him inquiring about how happy I was with his Enerland PolyRC LiPos, and if there are equivalent quality packs for 3S that I could buy. I never heard back from him. I'm still going to need 3S2P 4000-5000mAh Lipos to replace the junked Chinese LiPos. Sadly, I've only run these 10 ten times...

[Doug Smock]

Well here we go again.jpg

[10gauge]

Hey Doug, your advice several years ago on the Titan 29 was spot on! The Neu 1515/2200kV worked awesome!

I better rephrase the question to everyone: What LiPos have given you at least 100 runs with over 180 Amps on 2P set ups without degradition in run time or performance?

[T.S.Davis]

My recommendation would be to look at results. Check with guys that are winning classes racing against the fastest guys and best drivers in the country. Check the SAW records.

You have to be careful. Few post on this topic anymore. You will receive a lengthy dissertations on integrity if you have an opinion that does not endorse the brand Keith did not mention.

[Doug Smock]

Hey Doug, your advice several years ago on the Titan 29 was spot on! The Neu 1515/2200kV worked awesome!

I better rephrase the question to everyone: What LiPos have given you at least 100 runs with over 180 Amps on 2P set ups without degradition in run time or performance?

I'm glad you had a good experience with the Titan. I doubt I'll ever get rid of mine sweet, sweet ride! I still have the very first set of Hyperion 5500 35C cells that I ran in her.

Check pages 6,7, &8 for the FE records if interested.

http://impba.net/attachments/article/63/RECORDS%2031%20DECEMBER%202014.pdf

NAMBA records can be found here if interested.

http://namba.com/content/default.asp

Good luck!

[10gauge]

My recommendation would be to look at results. Check with guys that are winning classes racing against the fastest guys and best drivers in the country. Check the SAW records.

You have to be careful. Few post on this topic anymore. You will receive a lengthy dissertations on integrity if you have an opinion that does not endorse the brand Keith did not mention.

T.S. Davis, that's brilliant! I didn't know that info was public record. I found my answer(s)!

[keithbradley]

My recommendation would be to look at results. Check with guys that are winning classes racing against the fastest guys and best drivers in the country. Check the SAW records.

OP:
Also consider the date of the record. A lipo that was good in 2006 of course would not compete with even some of the lowest grade lipos available today. Looking at the records set in the last couple years I see:
-Dinogy
-Entropy
-Hyperion
-Giant Power
-Grim Racer
-Revolectrix
-SLS
-Turnigy
-Zippy

There are definitely capable packs that aren't on that list, and perhaps some on that list that don't necessarily "blow the skirt up", but it seems they were good enough to get a record. Tyler set the all-time record last year with SLS packs, and there were a couple other very impressive records set with SLS packs as well.

Something else that caught my attention is the fact that your lipos have been in storage for 3 years. A lipo is perpetually degrading from the day it is made. Lipos that age well in storage aren't the same as lipos that perform well under load, either. For example, I once accidentally stored some older 20C lipos FULLY CHARGED for over a year. I was scared to open the box they were in, but when I did, they were all in the perfect "brick" form they were in when I put them away. They had lost some capacity of course, but overall still performed ok. In another instance, I put some of a newer 65C lipo in their case charged and didn't use them as soon as planned. When I opened the case a month later, EVERY SINGLE LIPO was puffed. I'm not saying that every high discharge lipo will do that, they don't. However, it is pretty typical that a lower discharge lipo will store better than a higher discharge lipo. Keep that in mind when you decide what to buy. If I wanted lipos to run in something where 20C would be fine and I planned on storing them a lot, I would probably choose 20C lipos.

You will receive a lengthy dissertations on integrity if you have an opinion that does not endorse the brand Keith did not mention.

Absolutely not true. Everyone is entitled to their own experiences. I could never possibly test everything out there, so if you endorse something that I don't use that's fine. For all I know, you could have the best thing on the planet. I'll gladly share MY experiences with products I've used, and for those I haven't, I'll keep my mouth shut. Terry received a PM from me because he was slinging mud about a product he had never used, seen, held, or experienced in any way. The PM was sent in an effort to be friendly and get along, instead of spending time arguing with someone about something they know nothing about. It won't happen again Terry. My mistake.

[RaceMechaniX]

The batteries Keith mentioned are all pretty good packs. If you are looking for packs that will last 100 runs, this is much harder to answer. From my own experience, the best batteries for heat racing have been old Hyperion 45C packs. The same newer Hyperions have not faired as well. I bought the old ones 4-5 years ago and still race with them and performance has remained stable over the years. I don't have enough runs on the other packs to say what else is holding up. Most of the other brands have all tapered off to some extent. To be perfectly blunt, if you are running 2P with reasonable excess capacity after a run+25%, most cells will run fine. If you are running a 1P set-up in a rigger when you have high current draw, the quality of the cells become more important. I prefer to buy cells from people/companies that support the cells and give excellent customer service. This is more important than who went how fast with what brand.

The records to look at are the 2-lap and heat racing records, not necessarily the SAW records. SAW batteries are a slightly different animal where true 60-100C conditions exist for several seconds. And we only look for 3 maybe 4 passes before we come in. And most of us are willing to heavily abuse a battery expecting to replace it after a short number of runs.

TG

[T.S.Davis]

Haha. See what I mean.

I put more faith in Tyler's 2 cents because I know he doesn't do just one thing. Plus nobody has the balls to call him a "fan boy".

Now if Smock or I prefer ed a Hyperion it would be because we're ignorant fan boys. See how it works and why nobody comments?

[10gauge]

Thanks Keith, Tyler, and T.S. for the great points about C rating, storage, # runs, amp draw, and pattern of racing. This also helps explain why my 25C LiPos held up better than my 35C. In the span of 3 years, only my 3S/4500/35C LiPos didn't survive. The ultimate test will be of course how these LiPos from storage will perform under load...

I am glad I asked about LiPos. It seems performance, quality, charge cycles, and storage characteristics vary from one brand to another. About 5 years ago, Thunder Power from MaxAmps were deemed worthy. I don't see them mentioned in the same light now. I don't know how the sourcing works for LiPos nowadays... Much like anything else these days, it seems newer LiPos are more expendable with shorter life spans. I might stick with 25C

As far as chargers go, one thing I've never understood is why from day one, my circa 2007 Hyperion 0720i charger and external LBA10 Balancer always defaulted to A123 instead of LiPo setting on 2S and 3S. On 4S - 6S it recognizes LiPos. Another quirk is that the balancer never engages on the first try and beeps until about the 3rd or 4th try. I am a bit apprehensive buying the newer Dual 1000W Hyperion charger in fear that the quirks have not been fixed.

I can't help think how far along RC has come along... 25 years ago, we'd go to the local hobby shop and get ourselves a Mabuchi 540 or 550 motor, gear drive, NiCad packs, and hope to hit 35mph. I am astounded by the discharge rates of the newest LiPos... With ever-increasing power available from LiPos and motors, it seems to me that ESCs are still the weakest link... It seems that has changed too as I still have several new Castle Hydra 120, 240, and 240 HV ICE ESCs.

[Doug Smock]

Haha. See what I mean.

I put more faith in Tyler's 2 cents because I know he doesn't do just one thing. Plus nobody has the balls to call him a "fan boy".

Now if Smock or I prefered a Hyperion it would be because we're ignorant fan boys. See how it works and why nobody comments?

This is why these threads take the twists and turns that they do. You see Tyler and I have had different experience with the newer Hyperions.


So I guess this is where I'm supposed to question his equipment etc. right?


"Everyone is entitled to their own experiences". Ah, a little gem in all of this.