Lipo sack scam alert

[Mike Caruso]

Hey Doug,

Mike C. - Are you serious about the asbestos? :)

Just throwing it out there to see if anyone had tried it. Aren't you glad I don't build machines for food? I 'll bet everyone is LOL. If we knew what you know about the food industry we would quit eating unless we prepared all food ourselves.

Funny I got off and looked at a small Fire Proof Safe I have and it has plastic inside so it would be no good for a fire on the inside. Crazy right! I will help by keeping my eyes open and asking around to see what else I can find on my en

All that said I think the first step #1 would be hard case LiPos Just like the car and truck guys mandate.

Great work Doug.

MC

[m4a1usr]

Looked at Fireproof boxes and safes. They refer to fireproof as for example withstanding 1700 degrees for 2 hours and some say 1800 degrees for 1 hour etc. I assume the Federal Trade Commision has set guidelines as referenced above.

It is clear to me in my research into this matter that the rules "on the books" are to satisfy Organized RC Associations for Insurance purposes and really not for actual personal or property damage protection. Therefore I believe the key in doing so is to be clear and precise with the wording. You can be sure that the Insurance Company, the Lawyers and the Courts will be. So I don't believe you can use the word fireproof loosely.

The deeper I dig into this the more junk I find. It's like planting a tree in an old abandoned land fill.

Disclaimer - I do not represent any organized racing association.

The fireproof rating was defined by a group of standards for protecting the contents of the container. And it was soley based on temperature for material combustion or a level of degradation over a reasonable time period based on known insurance standards that were researched and accepted to be the average accross a sampling population.

You guys dont care about the protection of the gizmo inside. You just want bystander protection or fire containment so it does not continue engulfing materials in close approximation. Heck, for what you guys are doing an old crock pot with a lid would do the job. Or even a dutch oven.

John

[T.S.Davis]

any or all ?

It' "any". That's right out of the book.

That's why you must charge Hyperian cells with Hyperian chargers to be insured by IMPBA. I mentioned that somewhere else.

Doug, your cracking me up with this. I see my question about how they define fireproof finally creeped into your frontal lobe.

Just dump all your Hyperian cells and find cells that have ZERO safety restrictions. Since the rule book allows the manufacturer to define the safety parrameters you'll be good at that point.

Unless of course......you actually DO care about safety. After having actually been affected by a large fire (not LiPo) I know that you do. Keep digging until you do figure out how to be truly safe and not just pretending.

[bigwaveohs]

Here's a guy who has at least given some thought to the problem...

http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-items-sale-trade/585228-lipo-fire-proof-charging-container.html

But after looking at some "demos', it looks like a simple cash box with a loose-fitting lid would contain the flames in the event of a fire...what do you guys think?

[jkr]

I think that a box with ceramic fibre insulation will be ideal.

[drwayne]

There is wording in one of the associations that says: As a responsible user of high performance batteries you will adhere to any of the manufacturer recommendations dealing with handling, storage and charging.

any or all ?

It' "any". That's right out of the book.

That's why you must charge Hyperian cells with Hyperian chargers to be insured by IMPBA. I mentioned that somewhere else.

Food for thought:
Would you like to eat 'any' of these cupcakes .. does not mean you get to eat 'all' of them .
Must obey 'any' of the manufacturer's usage requests.. does not mean you need obey them 'all'.
Semantics.
I noted the anomaly because it is poor grammatically... insurance assessors demand 'holeproof' SOP.

ps IP2865 international definition of fireproof.... 452'f/234'c (ignition of paper) for 15 minutes before content ignition.

regs
W

[Mike Caruso]

Here's a guy who has at least given some thought to the problem...

http://www.rctech.net/forum/r-c-items-sale-trade/585228-lipo-fire-proof-charging-container.html

But after looking at some "demos', it looks like a simple cash box with a loose-fitting lid would contain the flames in the event of a fire...what do you guys think?

Nice thanks now I can show my family so they understand the LiPo's are not to be taken lightly.
Mike Caruso

[DPeterson]

Yep - right now I am focused on metal parts boxes with hinged lids. The compartments for the most part will keep the lipos seperated. The hinged cover allows me to continually monitor them.

Anything but lipo sacks. You all have been terribly mislead. Most all lipo sacks are nothing more than cooking gloves sprayed with heat resistant silicon. Then alot of them are only good for 3S 3200 mah or below. They have been known to burn through, throw flames out the side and drip flammable fluids out and onto shop bench's and furniture. Further more once you bury your lipo in a sack, and can no longer monitor it, you have eliminated a key step in handling lipos safely.

I would also caution against just charging on a fireproof surface with no side protection.

Up to this point my charging protocal trumps all the others like a Royal Flush over a pair of Twos. Knowing you are handling a potential danger and maintaining visual control far outweighs hiding the danger and thinking you are safe. A key point in the Manufactruing Industry Safety and Loss Control training.

Disclaimer - I do not represent any organized racing association.

Doug

[Doug Smock]

Don't discount the fact that there is something to be said for inspecting your packs after runs. That's nearly impossible to do when they are built into the boat.
And then there's this.http://www.plasticmaterials.net/msds...materials.html
D.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Doug P it seems you have it figured out. Now to get the organizations you race with to follow.

[morewattsnow]

What we need is a containment system that will allow the removal of a burning lipo to an area where it can burn out safely. Given the difficulty of extinguishing a lipo fire that is the best you're going to be able to do if a fire starts. I think an army surplus ammo box with a small hole made to allow the charging wire with a quick disconnect NOT RIGHT AT THE BOX would be best. And maybe an extended handle to protect you from the heat as you carry this thing outside.Mount a smoke detector above the charging setup. Flip the lid shut, clip it tight and charge the battery. If the detector goes off, carry it outside. The wire hole will vent the pressure (and some smoke but that can't be helped) as you go.

Also, having a plan is vital. Emergency reactions always work better if you have prepared for them. How are you going to pick this thing up, how are you going to carry it, where are you going with it? Don't ask yourself these questions when the fire starts, there's no time then. Ask yourself NOW. TRY it. See if it works.

These are ideas I just thought of. Not trying to establish myself as an expert. Any discussion welcome.



Since we're not all going to charge these things in our driveways we better figure out how to get them outside when the s--t hits the fan.

[DPeterson]

D. Smock

Don't discount the fact that there is something to be said for inspecting your packs after runs. That's nearly impossible to do when they are built into the boat.

Actually not impossible at all. I can see all sides but the very bottom. My cells are so secure there is very little to no movement at all. They are so secure I have to be extremely careful in removing the 2S packs as I fear flexing the anodes/cathodes layers. The 4S cells are lots more structurely sound. I have a 2P 4S set up that takes 10 minutes to remove and then 10 minutes to reinstall. It was built that way out of concern for maintaining the integrity of the lipo cell in a 60 mile per hour wipe-out. I am of course getting ready to re-do this in order to meet the Battery Manufactuers requirements. This change increases the risk of lipo fire but I understand the need to meet the manufactuers requirements for insurance and litigation purposes.

I am not sure what your posting of MSDS sheets is intended to indicate. All the lipo fires I have witnessed were all in the boat out on the water. Had nothing to due with charging. Maybe we could/should be spraying our fiberglass boats with Heat Resistant Silicon. :)

morewattsnow - good to see others reading and posting. It appears we are moving past the finger pointing, we got it right, just follow rules stage. Your statement about having a plan in the case of an incident is dead on. There should be one for the home environment and one for down at the pond or race. I think there are current discussions taking place. I am at a loss right now on what reactive procedures should entail. Most of my approach has always been proactive. Trying to remove a burning lipo really increases the risk of personal injury. Not sure I could buy into any procedure that incorporates removal. I think all you can really hope for is equipment or property damage control.

Disclaimer - I do not represent any organized racing association.

Doug

[Doug Smock]

Doug P it seems you have it figured out. Now to get the organizations you race with to follow.

What he said.
D.

[Jeff]

Guy's, after working in the construction industry for many years, there is a device that many of you may not be familiar with, especially if you live down south( http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...5-plumbing.htm) This device is used to haul hazardous wast away and the water storage tank makes it ideal to flood a lipo fire with water. The construction is porcelean so it is ideal for charging in the round portion because of the fireproof nature of the material, this will direct flames upward until the water flooding feature can be employed.

I am all about the helping.

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[LuckyDuc]

Guy's, after working in the construction industry for many years, there is a device that many of you may not be familiar with, especially if you live down south( http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/...5-plumbing.htm) This device is used to haul hazardous wast away and the water storage tank makes it ideal to flood a lipo fire with water. The construction is porcelean so it is ideal for charging in the round portion because of the fireproof nature of the material, this will direct flames upward until the water flooding feature can be employed.

I am all about the helping.

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