LiPo Sack Question

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  • sanyijr
    Senior Member
    • Oct 2008
    • 376

    #46
    Originally posted by Steven Vaccaro
    Just for the record I'm not out to change anything. Just putting my nose where it doesn't belong.
    Me too....

    I do find in a bit puzzling that a simple understanding of why these rules are in place can't be sited...

    I am not a IMPBA member, but I use common sense in my safety procedures. I am really a nobody in the FE body, but I have a home, kids and wife to keep safe (for now, but too many FE boats always puts that in peril) and that is more important than rules. And if "following rules" is the only reason for lipo sacks. Ouch. You are trusting a cheap POS chinease made glass fabric sack with cheap stitching made by some 10 year old to not burn you down? The intent here, as noble as can be, seems somewhat misguided. Look at the quality control that goes into a $300 RTR boat? Less goes into the lipo sacks i would assume...

    I, for one, trust heavy duty ammo boxes only. I have put many rounds into a ammo box (as in actually shot at and into them) and they are for the most part bullet proof. My family had a handfull in a house that burned down in the Oakland Hills fire in the 1990s. They are VERY fire resisitant. When everything melted, these did not. They cost roughly the same, so I just don't see how any organization would support a lipo sack in the name of being safe when it is most definitely not. It is as falmable as the material next to it. See youtube and every single lipo fire demostrates that the flames blast out the folds actually concentrating the flames.

    In my opinion, (and no disrespect to anyone, but it might be too late based on the above), but the lipo sack seems to be a weak attempt at being safe or at least setting the bar VERY low. I just get tired of people pushing them as the end all. But again , just my opinion.

    Comment

    • Doug Smock
      Moderator
      • Apr 2007
      • 5272

      #47
      Originally posted by Steven Vaccaro
      Just for the record I'm not out to change anything. Just putting my nose where it doesn't belong.
      Your nose certainly does belong here.
      I was just pointing out how we got here. It isn't some guy in a black cloak that has a IMPBA logo on it. It was (is)the membership.
      And for the record, I am all for fixing, changing, modifying, anything that needs to be fixed, changed, or modified.
      At the end of the day no matter what organization you belong to, we are all in this together.
      D.
      MODEL BOAT RACER
      IMPBA President
      District 13 Director 2011- present
      IMPBA National Records Director 2009-2019
      IMPBA 19887L CD
      NAMBA 1169

      Comment

      • sanyijr
        Senior Member
        • Oct 2008
        • 376

        #48
        Kinda sounds like a hug moment...

        Comment

        • JIM MARCUM
          Senior Member
          • Jun 2011
          • 773

          #49
          Originally posted by Steven Vaccaro
          Just for the record I'm not out to change anything. Just putting my nose where it doesn't belong.
          Steven, your nose is in the right place. You and this forum provide information about our FE sport that can't be found elsewhere.

          Keep up the good work. JIM
          JIM MARCUM: NAMBA 777; EX? SoCal FE Racers Club; D-19; Official 2012 NAMBA FE Nationals Rescue Diver; Purple Heart Viet Nam Vet; Professional SCUBA/HOOKA Diver, KELCO, 1973-1978; BBA 1978, Magna Cum Laude; MBA 1980 w/honors; Retired DOD GS1102-12 Contract Specialist

          Comment

          • bigwaveohs
            Senior Member
            • May 2009
            • 535

            #50
            The best bet might be a fire resistant Kevlar bag. Or maybe toss some of this stuff on the LiPo fire?

            lipofire.jpg
            I let the dogs out...

            Comment

            • m4a1usr
              Fast Electric Addict
              • Nov 2009
              • 2038

              #51
              I have avoided making a comment about this subject until now but if clubs are worried about just the container to charge in at events why dont you guys use some simple and cheap? Lipo sacks are not really rated for the protection you guys are seeking. They are honestly just a decent transportation protection container but nothing more. Velcro/snaps. Doesnt matter, the sacks are thin fiberglass and would never pass any industry standard for being fire proof.

              On this realization it should be accepted as some form of minium storage standard. Charging? Your just accepting some un quantified sack manufacturers hype. Even the videos being used to portray their effectivness is subjective. What you guys with a bit of vision should do is use something that already exsists in form and is more than rated to contain this realtively simple worry. A bit of research or even use commonly available containers. There are several that scream out immediately.

              Clay or terra cotta containers, although they can be fragile, would be more than acceptable by any firemarshal. Ceramic plannting pots too. They come in many shapes, sizes. And are a bit more durable. The list goes on and on. Heck, a cheap crock pot has more than enough capability. You dont need to lock the container down with latches like a metal box, although something like a 5.56/7.62 or even 50cal box are very cheap and with a couple holes punched thru the side for the wires would allow for more than enough protection. Honestly what you need to worry about is a blazing piece of plastic, not a bomb ready to blast a nearby observer.

              I guess what I'm saying is define the requirements, set a minimum set of standards, research products that will meet those and put them in place. If anyone/ club wants to talk about some known standards used by the government email me. No dont PM me. I worked POPs testing standards for years, if you dont know what that means just google it, I can provide you with some set standards and engineering guidance. What the organizations are attempting is commendable. Just dont make it complicated because it doesnt need to be.

              John
              Change is the one Constant

              Comment

              • DPeterson
                Senior Member
                • Apr 2007
                • 842

                #52
                Very reasonable post John.

                Problem is there is no real desire from anyone to tackle this issue and do it thoroughly. When it begins to get discussed we get selective groups from various parts of the country thinking they got it right. Pretty easy to pick out 1 or 2 of the recommended or required charging cautions for your rules and disregard all the others. Then use that as your basis for calling someone out. Changes the entire focus to actually get safe charging talked about and moving forward. And after going through this review I would expect or hope real safety rules are being discussed.

                My current safe charging protocal far exceeds all the safe charging protocals being promoted. My protocal meets more of the manufactures requirements than any of the others including what I consider to be the most important - "Monitor your packs during charging". This can only be done visually and with access to the cells. My protocal addresses the concerns with cell structure, durability and time for remedial action in the case of an incident.

                But again - nobody cares. If it really mattered these threads would have more views and more input from just a few.

                Doug
                Doug Peterson
                IMPBA 19993
                www.badgerboaters.com

                Comment

                • Doug Smock
                  Moderator
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 5272

                  #53
                  Originally posted by DPeterson
                  Pretty easy to pick out 1 or 2 of the recommended or required charging cautions for your rules and disregard all the others. Then use that as your basis for calling someone out.

                  Doug
                  Moderator hat off.
                  Oh brother, good thing you have all of that cheese Mr. Peterson.

                  Send Chris Harris anything you have come up with that is positive. We have set aside some time at the SAWs in Huntsville at the end of the month (28, 29) to discuss LiPo safety with the Safety Director.
                  Shortly there after we will be making a recommendation to the board. Remember, safety rules don't have to go to the membership for a vote, that can be done at the board level.
                  Perhaps you can come join us. Bring a boat or two for the 1/4 mile, and at the end of the day I'll buy you a BEER.
                  Doug S.
                  MODEL BOAT RACER
                  IMPBA President
                  District 13 Director 2011- present
                  IMPBA National Records Director 2009-2019
                  IMPBA 19887L CD
                  NAMBA 1169

                  Comment

                  • ozzie-crawl
                    Fast Electric Addict!
                    • Sep 2008
                    • 2865

                    #54
                    Not saying it is a bad thing as i use one myself,but metal boxes and electricity can cause problems. So i dont think a Ammo box is the best bet either.
                    One other thing on sealed boxes. Putting anything explosive in a sealed container has the potential of being for want of a better word a Bomb.

                    Comment

                    • ron1950
                      Fast Electric Addict!
                      • Aug 2010
                      • 3024

                      #55
                      i dont think u can take off a moderator hat can ya? told ya it was going to be rough to be a moderator
                      MY RETIREMENT PLAN?????.....POWERBALL
                      74 vintage kirby clasic hydro, pursuit mono, mg, 47'' mono, popeye hydro...

                      Comment

                      • Doug Smock
                        Moderator
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 5272

                        #56
                        Sure I can, I just did.

                        Driving on now!

                        Moderator hat back on
                        See ya at the pond guys!!
                        MODEL BOAT RACER
                        IMPBA President
                        District 13 Director 2011- present
                        IMPBA National Records Director 2009-2019
                        IMPBA 19887L CD
                        NAMBA 1169

                        Comment

                        • Steven Vaccaro
                          Administrator
                          • Apr 2007
                          • 8723

                          #57
                          I don't think Doug ever has to take off the hat. Being a Mod on OSE is not like some other forums. The Mods here are active participants in the forum and hobby and should act and be treated as such. We are not just "police".
                          Steven Vaccaro

                          Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

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