Question for Dupli-Color Paint Users...

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  • Darin Jordan
    Fast Electric Addict!
    • Apr 2007
    • 8335

    #1

    Question for Dupli-Color Paint Users...

    This past weekend, I spent a good deal of time prepping and painting two hulls... one my wooden 32" WildThing P-Mono, and the other my Glass Raptor Marine P-Spec Hydro.

    On both of these hulls, I prepped them carefully and primed them with Dupli-Color primer. I then did something I don't normally do. I used some Dupli-Color Primer Sealer on them. This is suppose to keep the paint from "absorbing" into the primer, and also supposed to promote gloss.

    It says on the can that "no sanding is required" between this coat and the final paint coat, so once the sealer was dried, I proceeded to put on a couple of light coats of Dupli-Color Bright White paint.

    I let the color coats dry for 24-hours. Everything looked GREAT.

    I took the P-Mono hull upstairs and proceeded to tape it off so I could add the color to the deck. I misplaced a piece of masking tape... the REALLY expensive professional vinyl type of striping tape that I use on all my boats... and when I gently pulled it off... it gently pulled ALL of the paint under it right off!

    Pissed off, I pulled all the tape off the boat with similiar results.

    It appears that the paint didn't adhere to the sealer, because that is the layer that became fully exposed.

    I have since stripped the boat back down to bare wood and am starting over.


    I'm thinking that I should maybe have sanded a light coat (400-grit) over the sealer before painting?? Should I forgo the sealer next time?

    I'm VERY tired of having to redo paintjobs like this, after spending SOOOO much time and energy getting things right the first time, so if anyone has any advice that would help, I'm all ears (errrr.... or "eyes", in the case of forum text.... )

    On the P-Spec Hydro, I've gone through the same process, but I had already put two coats of Dupli-Color Clear Topcoat on it, and have it just about ready for testing. If the paint starts coming off of it as well, I'll strip the tub down and start over with that as well, but not until after the 2009 NAMBA Nats in July. Hopefully by then I'll have this process figured out so I can ensure it'll work the first time around.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."
  • jeff180
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2008
    • 150

    #2
    You should always wet sand the primer before spraying your color. 400 grit is just fine. I would not use that sealer again.
    sad

    Comment

    • Flying Scotsman
      Fast Electric Adict!
      • Jun 2007
      • 5190

      #3
      Darin, what was the time between the prime coat and the sealer and the colour coats. For me, prime coat, leave it for a day...wet sand, then top coats of lacquer paint after flash time and no clear.

      Douggie
      Last edited by Flying Scotsman; 06-22-2009, 01:32 PM.

      Comment

      • egneg
        Fast Electric Addict!
        • Feb 2008
        • 4670

        #4
        Originally posted by Darin Jordan
        This past weekend, I spent a good deal of time prepping and painting two hulls... one my wooden 32" WildThing P-Mono, and the other my Glass Raptor Marine P-Spec Hydro.

        On both of these hulls, I prepped them carefully and primed them with Dupli-Color primer. I then did something I don't normally do. I used some Dupli-Color Primer Sealer on them. This is suppose to keep the paint from "absorbing" into the primer, and also supposed to promote gloss.

        It says on the can that "no sanding is required" between this coat and the final paint coat, so once the sealer was dried, I proceeded to put on a couple of light coats of Dupli-Color Bright White paint.

        I let the color coats dry for 24-hours. Everything looked GREAT.

        I took the P-Mono hull upstairs and proceeded to tape it off so I could add the color to the deck. I misplaced a piece of masking tape... the REALLY expensive professional vinyl type of striping tape that I use on all my boats... and when I gently pulled it off... it gently pulled ALL of the paint under it right off!

        Pissed off, I pulled all the tape off the boat with similiar results.

        It appears that the paint didn't adhere to the sealer, because that is the layer that became fully exposed.

        I have since stripped the boat back down to bare wood and am starting over.


        I'm thinking that I should maybe have sanded a light coat (400-grit) over the sealer before painting?? Should I forgo the sealer next time?

        I'm VERY tired of having to redo paintjobs like this, after spending SOOOO much time and energy getting things right the first time, so if anyone has any advice that would help, I'm all ears (errrr.... or "eyes", in the case of forum text.... )

        On the P-Spec Hydro, I've gone through the same process, but I had already put two coats of Dupli-Color Clear Topcoat on it, and have it just about ready for testing. If the paint starts coming off of it as well, I'll strip the tub down and start over with that as well, but not until after the 2009 NAMBA Nats in July. Hopefully by then I'll have this process figured out so I can ensure it'll work the first time around.
        Here is the first clue to your problem. There are only 2 ways that paint bonds chemical and physical. If each layer doesn't reactivate the lower layer for a chemical bond you need scratch to create a physical bond. Unless I am doing a couple of wet coats of the same color as soon as the paint flashes I like to give the paint some time to cure and give it scratch just to be sure I have a good bond between layers. Watch your overspray and use a good cleaner/degreaser and tack cloth (air it out for a couple of hours first) before every layer.
        IMPBA 20481S D-12

        Comment

        • Flying Scotsman
          Fast Electric Adict!
          • Jun 2007
          • 5190

          #5
          Folks, flash time is really important. See other painting threads on this topic

          Douggie

          Comment

          • RandyatBBY
            Fast Electric Addict!
            • Sep 2007
            • 3915

            #6
            Call a teck guy at dupla color and see what he says!
            Randy
            For ABS, Fiberglass, Carbon hulls and Stainless hardware
            BBY Racing

            Comment

            • Darin Jordan
              Fast Electric Addict!
              • Apr 2007
              • 8335

              #7
              OK... so if the can says let dry 10-minutes between coats... and it's "dry to the touch in 30-minutes"... Which one is considered the "Flash Time"??

              I would think it would be better to wait until the primer were COMPLETELY dry (24-hours or ???) to let all the solvents out before sealing it down with a coat of color, right?

              I'm thinking that maybe letting the primer completely dry, then doing the 400 wet-sand, wipe it down, degrease, tac-cloth, then color paint, might be what I have to try next...

              Really want to figure this out because I've had too many of the paint-jobs fail on me lately...

              Thanks for the info so far...
              Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
              "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

              Comment

              • Flying Scotsman
                Fast Electric Adict!
                • Jun 2007
                • 5190

                #8
                Randy, rattle cans are just that. I doubt many words of wisdom from the paint manufacturer...how was the surface prepped...did you use all our products etc..etc.

                Douggie

                Comment

                • Darin Jordan
                  Fast Electric Addict!
                  • Apr 2007
                  • 8335

                  #9
                  Originally posted by RandyatBBY
                  Call a teck guy at dupla color and see what he says!

                  BS on that... The last time I did that with Krylon... they said "Sure... you can paint regular Krylon over Fusion"....

                  Yah, RIGHT!

                  I'd rather talk to people who have actually painted with the stiff...
                  Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
                  "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

                  Comment

                  • Flying Scotsman
                    Fast Electric Adict!
                    • Jun 2007
                    • 5190

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Darin Jordan
                    OK... so if the can says let dry 10-minutes between coats... and it's "dry to the touch in 30-minutes"... Which one is considered the "Flash Time"??

                    I would think it would be better to wait until the primer were COMPLETELY dry (24-hours or ???) to let all the solvents out before sealing it down with a coat of color, right?

                    I'm thinking that maybe letting the primer completely dry, then doing the 400 wet-sand, wipe it down, degrease, tac-cloth, then color paint, might be what I have to try next...

                    Really want to figure this out because I've had too many of the paint-jobs fail on me lately...

                    Thanks for the info so far...
                    Darin, there is the problem, you are applying paint way after the flash time. Watch the paint and once it appears dry after looking wet, shoot the next colour coat. Always use the same manufacturer. Yes the primer must dry and be wet sanded

                    Douggie

                    Comment

                    • RandyatBBY
                      Fast Electric Addict!
                      • Sep 2007
                      • 3915

                      #11
                      Hear is a link to them.
                      Randy
                      For ABS, Fiberglass, Carbon hulls and Stainless hardware
                      BBY Racing

                      Comment

                      • Darin Jordan
                        Fast Electric Addict!
                        • Apr 2007
                        • 8335

                        #12
                        Originally posted by Flying Scotsman
                        Darin, there is the problem, you are applying paint way after the flash time. Watch the paint and once it appears dry after looking wet, shoot the next colour coat. Always use the same manufacturer. Yes the primer must dry and be wet sanded

                        Douggie
                        Sounds reasonable... I wonder how this applies to the sealer coat? I imagine it should be treated like "primer", and let to completely dry, then wetsand, wipe, tac, then start the colors??
                        Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
                        "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

                        Comment

                        • Flying Scotsman
                          Fast Electric Adict!
                          • Jun 2007
                          • 5190

                          #13
                          Darin, I have never heard of a sealer coat paint after a prime coat....pro painters?

                          Douggie

                          Comment

                          • egneg
                            Fast Electric Addict!
                            • Feb 2008
                            • 4670

                            #14
                            Darin you are correct about waiting between stages as to primer. color, and clear.

                            Forget the sealer. Flash time varies because of how heavy you lay down the paint, temperature, and humidity. As I have stated before shoot a test panel to perform a couple of tests as you go. As soon as you can drag your knuckle across the paint and it kinda squeaks without leaving any paint on your knuckle you are ready for the next coat - be careful as the paint is still very soft.
                            IMPBA 20481S D-12

                            Comment

                            • Darin Jordan
                              Fast Electric Addict!
                              • Apr 2007
                              • 8335

                              #15
                              Guys... thanks. I'm prepping to go in again... we'll see what comes out the other side this time...
                              Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
                              "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

                              Comment

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