STEALTH SPORT HYDRO Nitro to FE

[Darin Jordan]

Well... at least it's a case, this time around, where it's BOTH major oganizations that have rules that are totally silly (65% rule for FE)... It's nice to have some consistency!

I believe they are even consistent in their inconsistency between the Nitro and FE rules...

[cybercrxt]

Darin,

I just checked the transom width divided by sponson width at the outermost edge of the air relief cutout and its coming it at 80.5%. I didn't want to get anywhere near that 65% number for this very reason! I see now why you were checking in with me about my widths!

So, let me see if I can put my finger on this.

The Sport 20 nitro rules allow less than 65% or am I reading into this wrong?

The FE rules for a P-sport hydro allow only 65% and up correct?

I thought Phil's new sport boat was designed with FE directly in mind, but the transom is indeed 6.xx" wide, or were these measurements from the nitro version of Phils hull?


I hate to say it guys, but without rules in place, things would be a real mess. I have heard from multiple Nitro old schoolers that they are really tired of hearing from FE guys that "rules are ridiculous" and just get in the way. Seems like they might be right. I think its time as FE boaters we start trying to be proactive about fitting within the current rules, instead of getting defensive. I don't see where Darin was trying to start anything with any of you. He is an FE racer, and like me, decided he would look into the rules before making choices that would effect his boats down the road.

If you guys are building these hulls for backyard fun, then it doesn't matter, but if you are serious about getting into organized racing, take a look at the IMPBA and NAMBA rules to see what might effect you.

It may also be our responsibility as builders to mention when a boat design does not fit the current rules for a set class. Just a thought.

Thanks, Mike Luszcz

[Darin Jordan]

Darin,

I just checked the transom width divided by sponson width at the outermost edge of the air relief cutout and its coming it at 80.5%. I didn't want to get anywhere near that 65% number for this very reason! I see now why you were checking in with me about my widths!

So, let me see if I can put my finger on this.

The Sport 20 nitro rules allow less than 65% or am I reading into this wrong?

The FE rules for a P-sport hydro allow only 65% and up correct?

That's correct, Mike... The Nitro rules for Sport Hydro don't have a % rule, at least not in NAMBA. They, instead, have a "minimum transom width" rule, specifying 4" as the minimum.

That's why they are able to do things like this in Nitro (see attached picture of Jerry Dunlap's new "JVD Sport 20"... Developed with a little help and inspiration from JAE designer/developer Rod Geraghty... if you couldn't tell by looking...)

As most by now should realize... I have no issues staying INSIDE the rules... They are there to be pushed, poked, and prodded a little, but as long as you meet what is written down, it's all good.

However, it would be nice if the definitions of things like, oh, let's say a "Sport Hydro", were the same, regardless of the power source... I know, I know... would be WAY too logical to work. One can always dream...

[cybercrxt]

Darin,

You mean the JVD20 hull that I designed and had Rod review for his thoughts about 3 months ago, in cofindence, only to have my design pop up 3 months later as a Rod design? Only the center width was changed into an illegal width..Ouch, did I just post this in a public forum??? That was going to be the ML Boatworks Adjust20 hull...glad I chose to go another route. Smoke and Mirrors.... I do not think Jerry did this design, I think Rod gave him this design with Jerry not knowing where it came from. Lost a lot of trust in Rod the day that hull surfaced. Here is a pic of the CAD drawing I did as proof:

[detox]

That is a cool looking hull.

[cybercrxt]

It is isn't it, too bad my design was taken.....Doesn't matter tho, it doesn't run to impressively.

[Grimracer]

Mike,

I feel its important to remember what the premise of the JAE was. Its the spirit i like to take on the boat.

Rods idea was a FREE Share.. The boat idea was FREE to anybody.. take it, run with it... make money on it. But as to the design premise, its free and SHOULD be shared.

And to think.. it all started because of those little pesky .12 nitro motors!

Grim

[cybercrxt]

Grim, I sent this design to him in Confidence, not to throw it out to anyone he desired doing that to. Would Aquacraft appriciate the UL-1 being copied? Would they appriciate something they spent the time developing being free or shared? No, the person that did that might have a lawsuit on their hands if it has a patent. He knew this was to be a hull I was going to offer, and Doug Smock told him that, yet he did it anyway. I call that lacking a bit of character on his part. He could have at least asked me if that was cool, but he did not. Its doubtfull he even told Jerry where that idea came from to give credit where it was due. I would have gladly given Jerry the plans had I known he wanted to do a boat like this, heck Jerry has done a lot for me. This is not the first time Rod has taken someones design and made it sound like his own. Ask around and you will see. Heck, flat plate technology or JAE style hulls were not his doing, it was not even the Japanese who did that first, it went back before then, yet its made out to be a JAE thing. My design used flat plate technology, and I thought Rod was the guy to ask to help out with the design, not give something of mine away. Plain and simple. Take it or leave it. You seem to love harassing me when you get the chance Grim. Must be nice having a great job doing what you love, sitting at the top of the RC world huh? Little guys like me are a joke to you I guess right? We should having nothing we call our own huh? Think about where you started out, would you want your hard work taken? I think not. Lot easier now tho isn't it? Ehhh, I have not the time for dealing with this....

[RCKong]

From what I can see if you want to mod the boat, it will take a bit of work. Not an easy fix by any means, good luck. It needs 7mm on each side of the transom by rule...maybe PT will take that under advisement. I'm surprised he has not chimed in on this.

[cybercrxt]

People like myself and others probably ruined the thread for him, and for that I will appoligize first. This outbreak should have never happened on there.

you are right now, it is an easy fix. I would just make balsa blocks, glue them on, and shape them, then add some light fiberglass cloth to the area for strength. Should work fine. Mike

[Grimracer]

Man did you miss the point on that one.. Im not picking on you man..

Back to the thread.

Grim

[phil t]

GEEZ, go away for a week and have alot of catching up to do.

Thanks to Brian who can read rules and wants to race, he saw a small width problem with the Stealth. Looks like all that has to be done is remove the air trap that is there now and glue on a 1/8th square stick just an 8th further out on the bottom corner and apply a little filler.

I will be updating the hull this spring to make it better for FE racing. I think a bit longer hull andengine well wider and deeper in the front for the lipos being used. The boat will look the same and same flat angles on the front sponsons. Bit wider transom too.

The boat was designed for nitro and FE but I think I just read the NAMBA nitro sport rules.
This is the problem you have when the rules are not consistant. We have the same stuff with strut positions, different for 20 and 40 nitro sports.

The same thing went on with my SuperSport45 it was run in Namba for many years and then some smart guy read the rules so we changed the belly pan depth to acceptable 1/2 inch for sport 40. The mod just made the boat race better. Next season the rule was voted out HA.

[D. Newland]

Phil-Thank you for getting in neck-deep into the FE side of things, and I appreciate your desire to build us hulls!

Brian & Darin-Thanks for getting in front of this. The boat has been out for a year. A guy in my club raced one at the 2011 Winter Warmups...never even thought to flip it over and measure it. Brian-you did. Thank you.

Guys-please take something positive away from this thread. The boat can be easily modified to meet the rule, and I don't feel it should even be an issue except for NAMBA sanctioned racing, but that's up for individual clubs to decide. As far as Scottsdale Model Boaters is concerned, I won't be telling anyone to modify their hull for club competition.

For those that want to race them at the Nat's, there is plenty of advanced notice on the issue to make sure the hulls conform to the rules.

Sport Hydro rule debates, opinions and interpretations aside, there is no other option at this point in time.

[T.S.Davis]

HAHAHA Darin, how is it you piss people off so easy. It's a gift I think. Guys, Darin and I have argued about everything from rules to the color blue over the years. I don't know if he knew before he asked. Who cares? Even if he did know the answer to his dims inquiry I totally understand why he would ask the way he did. Look how he's been berated for suggesting we follow the rules. Surely he knew how well recieved this data would be. I would have tried to get guys that had them to draw the conclusion on their own without having to spell it out. So cut him some slack.....and that's hard for me to type.

Once upon a time the Viper was found to be 1/8" too short for LSH. That was before brushless LSH. Well, some were short and some weren't. Depended on which mold it came from. Some of us could not believe a purpose built hull wouldn't be legal. We didn't re-write the rule though. A rule re-write because a manufacturer didn't know them or flat out ignored them? That's a slippery slope. Guys added length to the boats if they were going to run at sanctioned events.

My Whip is NAMBA legal and not IMPBA legal. I don't race it in IMPBA. I'll have to chop it up to make it IMPBA legal. Maybe I'll fix it since it needs attention anyway.

For the record, I hated that rule when it was drafted too. I call it the Larry rule. Sorry Larry. He was convinced it would keep riggers out of sport.

I love the 65% canopy rule in offshore. Sorry Jim.

MMEU wont be forcing the 65% rule down our club members throats on these. Not if I can help it at least. Accept for Fred. I'll make him change his. hahaha Our club races aren't sanctioned anyway.

[longballlumber]

It still blows my mind the hull in question is completely legal for nitro power but if you convert it to FE power it's illegal. Seems a little crazy to me. It's bad enough we have to national level orgs than can't merge (there is power in numbers), but in this case we have HULL specific rules that drives the separation between FE and Nitro. Some day we are all going to need to learn to co-exist (again, power in numbers).

Later,
Mike