I guess it's official, unless...

[Ub Hauled]

I came across some news that I have seen coming for some time now...
Hard to believe but, expected if you really look around.

Click Here for IMF news

[tiqueman]

UB, I clicked on your link and my computer detected a virus. You may want to check it out.

[hyrulejedi86]

Geez they make it sound like were going to be a third world country. Yeah, we've got debt and are in trouble but still better off than many many other countries. Even if that means were number 2, that isn't too bad. Not to mention things can certainly change if we can get our act together.

[tiqueman]

Not to mention things can certainly change if we can get our act together.

Have you been outside? Thats not going to happen for a looooooooooooong time. The US blows right now. When are we going to stop worrying about other peoples problems and start solving our own.... NEVER. As long as the political A-holes keep collecting money, it will never change.

Thats all I have to say, its been a bad enough day.

[hyrulejedi86]

Well, of course you certainly have a good point but you just can't give up hope that we can improve.

[Meniscus]

Reinstate capitalism. Make it lean and mean.

I'll now step over the line and say that if you receive Govt. assistance, then you should have to be part of a work program to do the things that those folks who are working for money don't have time to do. In other words, when I go to work, then as part of your accepting money, cut my grass, weed the garden, etc. If you don't do it, then don't collect a check.

What better motivator to go make profit for yourself than just to benefit someone else.

I'm also a fan of putting the power back at the state level. Then you encourage venture capitalism, but that's a subject for another time.

Since the Industrial Revolution associated with War, politicians have kept the same model to stimulate the economy. At some point, it has diminishing returns as the capital investment and facilities are not utilized during times of less war.

Which brings me to my final point. Let's streamline and make business more effective. That translates across all industries.

I don't speak my mind often and is not meant to offend anyone. This is not a debate. So far as everyone's opinion, have at it, but get involved. After all, with the technology we have, ultimately there's no reason why we can't take more of an active role governing ourselves rather than complaining of what is essentially "the hand we're dealt"

OK, enough rant from me. Support those that are putting themselves on the line whether it be a sandwich shop or a farmer. Take a voice and collaborate with your neighbors.

[jac4412]

Theres alot of things that can happen and to take into consideration.

A totalitarian regime with a large working populace obviously has an edge in some aspects.

However many economists argue and point out the detriment of their system... the general unhappiness, the "weak" structure (meaning alot of there top businesses are products aren't necessarily built up well). Of course this is all perspective.

The greatest strength of a democracy is what it is... a democracy. It's also its biggest weakness. The United States goes into a depression what... every 20 years? Theres a pattern... I forget what my history class said...

Point being is we'll be fine but tique is right... right now we're in a bad rut with alot of idiots. Obama hasn't been great for this country... neither was bush. Clinton had things going well besides his desk fantasies.

Hey if we can amass this debt in like 3 terms of presidents... we can fix it up quickly too. We'll be fine... we've been an established economy/country for a long time.. and we bounce back. Theres so many things you got to factor in... what happens if oil prices keep skyrocketing? You think a country that is more fossil fuel dependent than us will do better? especially when their (overall) tech is lower? What about the European Union? All we can do is wait and see... A Million things could happen. But history says we have the experience to be alright. But like I said.. tique is right... we've got a bunch of idiots governing us... I don't know how we can fix that... or if we ever can.

[Ub Hauled]

UB, I clicked on your link and my computer detected a virus. You may want to check it out.

I'll check although I have a Mac... besides it is supposed to be a reliable source...
thanks though!

Geez they make it sound like were going to be a third world country. Yeah, we've got debt and are in trouble but still better off than many many other countries. Even if that means were number 2, that isn't too bad. Not to mention things can certainly change if we can get our act together.

I don't thin we are going to be a third world country, but aside of the obvious sins of a crappy economy, I think that everything is cyclical, a huge time based spiral.
Many countries were a power house prior to the US, and the fall, not necessarily all the way to the bottom but yes, their time was up.

Reinstate capitalism. Make it lean and mean.

.....I don't speak my mind often and is not meant to offend anyone. This is not a debate. So far as everyone's opinion, have at it, but get involved. After all, with the technology we have, ultimately there's no reason why we can't take more of an active role governing ourselves rather than complaining of what is essentially "the hand we're dealt"

OK, enough rant from me. Support those that are putting themselves on the line whether it be a sandwich shop or a farmer. Take a voice and collaborate with your neighbors.

Ben, I agree with you... with great power comes great responsibility... which is lacking here. There is no sense of unity in this country anymore (in my opinion), everyone is in for a quick buck, I mean, isn't that what we are lead o believe (land of opportunities)? To most people that come here, it means "come here, and make money", I know, I came from elsewhere. Something they don't explain is that you have to work as a group, as part of a bigger thing, we don't look at it as being part of a complex system and this mentality of a "quick buck" is what's left. luckily I was an educated man when I came here and had an understanding of what "playing in the same team" means.
JFK sad it right, "ask not what your Country can do for you, ask what you can do for your Country"... what he meant was for people not to look at things selfishly but be a team player.
Just to be clear, I don't mean that immigrants are a bunch of uneducated cavemen, nor that non-immigrants are... but over time, thoughts just turned into a self preservation thing rather then a work as a team (there area exceptions to the rule but not nearly enough).

Thanks for placing your opinions guys, please keep it civil as this can be a touchy subject for many.

[Flying Scotsman]

History, my favourite subject at school and yes history does repeat its self

Douggie

[tiqueman]

Reinstate capitalism. Make it lean and mean.

I'll now step over the line and say that if you receive Govt. assistance, then you should have to be part of a work program to do the things that those folks who are working for money don't have time to do. In other words, when I go to work, then as part of your accepting money, cut my grass, weed the garden, etc. If you don't do it, then don't collect a check.

What better motivator to go make profit for yourself than just to benefit someone else.


I don't speak my mind often and is not meant to offend anyone. This is not a debate. So far as everyone's opinion, have at it, but get involved. After all, with the technology we have, ultimately there's no reason why we can't take more of an active role governing ourselves rather than complaining of what is essentially "the hand we're dealt"

OK, enough rant from me. Support those that are putting themselves on the line whether it be a sandwich shop or a farmer. Take a voice and collaborate with your neighbors.

Incase its me you think is mooching off the govt, Im am/ was a Drafstman and a custom Home builder (GC) for 11 years and have been out of work now for over 2 years. Just setting the records straight. Not implying you directed that at me. Not trying to argue etc etc.

I agree that I do not speak my mind often and nothing I say is meant to offend and create a debate w/ anyone else. Its just my opinions and how I feel.

I thought when I was let go back on March of 09 Id have a job w/ in 2 weeks. When I was getting started (mid 90s), every employer wanted more more more, certificates, licenses, etc etc. So, the next 9 yrs I put in my effort, I got everything I could get that time and $ allowed. Now look where I am. Ive got 232 Resumes out over the last 26 months. Less than 10 replies. A handful of which that did reply said they went with someone else b/c they were (without saying it) less qualified and could pay them less and did say they were worried Id bail if I found another job for more money. I offered a Mobile Home Maintenance group that Id sign I conrtact for 3 yrs at $12.00 / hour just so I could have a job. He said, sorry, we already hired someone. NONE of my applications to anywhere have I put a requested salary. I always put, Negotiable. They thing I made bookoo bux before and I didnt. So what am I doing now, handyman jobs around the neighborhood, cutting lawns, making boat hatches, whatever I can do to bring in a dollar. Im far from sitting on my a$$, but I still think this country is in the toilet, needs a complete overhaul and is an absolute crap place to be at the moment. History does repeat itself, I learned that in History as well, but dont you think we'd figured it out by now and quit making the mistakes.
My heart goes out to those who actually "work" for, not are supported by the govt. A few days ago when the govt was "so close to a collapse" and they were saying how military etc were only going to receive half thier income if any at all. Thats flat out BS!!!!! I hope they would have come home and went "bearing arms" straight to capital hill.


[QUOTE=jac4412;311518] Clinton had things going well besides his desk fantasies.QUOTE]

[Alexgar]

Mooching what is that after working 17 years straight and paying taxes I get laid off and I'm not eligible for any benefits so what's that and these people around me are on unemployment after a year with a company that the problem, so what the solution try to find a way to get out of paying in so how's that work one less payer and one more payee sounds like a recipe for disaster make it harder for lazy people to collect and the system will balance it self

[Steven Vaccaro]

I don't believe anyone's calling a laid off worker a "mooch". A large part of the mooching public are life long moochers! And most of them second and third generation moochers. My aunt worked at the Massachusetts "welfare" office for 20 or so years. You should hear the stories. Sure there are real people with real heath problems that force them to not be able to work, but a larger portion are just lazy or unfortunately not educated enough to do much.

[Alexgar]

i wasnt directing that to anyone here my sister in law collected for a 1.5 years and within a week of being cut off she found a job , my neibor got laid off and they get 25 a month in food stamps, my wife make 200 to much a month to qualify for food stamps yet our mortgage is 2 mths behind and the neibor down the road that works off the books and has 5 kids get welfare, food stamps wic and lives in a house twice the size of ours but yet he shows no income so my statement was its way to easy for people with a knowledge of the system to munipulate the system while the guy who never took a handout in his life needs help and has no where to turn

[Alexgar]

btw i start a job next week ive been wanting for 2 years(stablity) but its been a hard 3 months(last time i worked) and a tough year as buildind is suffering in the uper end market

[Steven Vaccaro]

i wasnt directing that to anyone here my sister in law collected for a 1.5 years and within a week of being cut off she found a job , my neibor got laid off and they get 25 a month in food stamps, my wife make 200 to much a month to qualify for food stamps yet our mortgage is 2 mths behind and the neibor down the road that works off the books and has 5 kids get welfare, food stamps wic and lives in a house twice the size of ours but yet he shows no income so my statement was its way to easy for people with a knowledge of the system to munipulate the system while the guy who never took a handout in his life needs help and has no where to turn

Some people just don't mind sucking from the system. Self respect is a huge part of that.

My moms friend had a daughter that had a terrible accident and was not able to speak, move or do anything. Basicly the poor girl was in a vegetative state for 15 or more years. They couldnt get any financial support, the father made about 20k a year back then. Not enough to survive and support wife that had to stay home to take care of the daughter. They tried for state assistance and the welfare worker could do nothing because of his salary, but off the record suggest the mom and dad divorce! It killed them to have to lower themselves to this level in order to live. They ended up having to divorce to get the help they so badly needed.