P-Limited Motors - Im going to jump on the hot seat.

[Ken Haines]

Everyone,
We are all certainly aware that NAMBA and IMPBA rules differ on the P-Ltd ESC"s allowed.
I am actually not bashing IMPBA here as I understand the thinking very well.
The reason I bring this point up is that most likely IMPBA will follow suit on the motor options
being discussed here. Again, I do not have inside info here, I am only making that assumption.
(Btw...I have not spoken to Doug Smock since the Michigan Cup.....I don't even like him that much)......lol
But the thought came to me this morning..... our motors probably need to survive the AQ ESC.
Let's all ponder this for a moment.....will the TP motor burn up one of them on a standard race set-up ?
If so then this may be an issue.
Your thoughts ?

[RayR]

Ken,

As I understand it, IMPBA does not have an ESC restriction. In fact, there is no defined P-Limited class in IMPBA. The folks in D13 do have a restriction for thier defined P-Limited class.

[TRUCKPULL]

Or you will have p - limiteds like Larry's with high amp hvdra's with massive cap banks and other internal mods to be able to swing outrageous prop's. his p- limited whip is really quick should be in p, and be faster than most.
Cheers, Jay.

Jay
First lets get your facts right.
In my LSH (p limited Sport Hydro)
I run an old Castle Barracuda 80Amp ESC not the 120's that I modify for N2 & P classes
UL1 motor
Modified cut down 440/3 prop--( NOT outrageous )
and my cut down modified WIP 26 7/8" long ( I also use this hull in N2 class)

You have the same Hull that you bought from me, but don't use it for LSH ( why not??)

Larry

[Ken Haines]

Ken,

As I understand it, IMPBA does not have an ESC restriction. In fact, there is no defined P-Limited class in IMPBA. The folks in D13 do have a restriction for thier defined P-Limited class.

Then I stand corrected...thanks Ray

[jaike5]

Larry,
I know you us the same hull in N2 as lsh , that's why Ray said You just swap out the motor, don't know where the barracuda came from.... although I'm sure you have one or 5. The props you said you use are cnc props from Europe , you got me some as well. this is why we need stock esc's, along with the motors, to keep it real.
Cheers, Jay.

[Darin Jordan]

I'm sorry, and I don't want to derail this thread from its intended conversation, but there is no such thing as a "stock" ESC.

It's a flawed concept, that doesn't restrict anything, especially when the Pro Boat RTR now have 120A escs.

[Doug Smock]

Everyone,
We are all certainly aware that NAMBA and IMPBA rules differ on the P-Ltd ESC"s allowed.
I am actually not bashing IMPBA here as I understand the thinking very well.
The reason I bring this point up is that most likely IMPBA will follow suit on the motor options
being discussed here. Again, I do not have inside info here, I am only making that assumption.
(Btw...I have not spoken to Doug Smock since the Michigan Cup.....I don't even like him that much)......lol
But the thought came to me this morning..... our motors probably need to survive the AQ ESC.
Let's all ponder this for a moment.....will the TP motor burn up one of them on a standard race set-up ?
If so then this may be an issue.
Your thoughts ?

Well Ken I just barely tolerate you so I guess it's all good. I guess you don't need any shafts hardened??

Smart IMPBA clubs will be looking at what motors NAMBA is running. They know they need to make it easy on racers to crossover.

The districts that have ESC restrictions can adjust easily if they want/need to. I was able to make two phone calls and open up the Spring Nationals to any ESC when those yahoos from Michigan showed interest in attending.

FWIW I expect to see a change in the ESC language for 2016 in D13. However, I imagine there may still be a limit. We'll see in Nov.

[TRUCKPULL]

Larry,
I know you us the same hull in N2 as lsh , that's why Ray said You just swap out the motor, don't know where the barracuda came from.... although I'm sure you have one or 5. The props you said you use are cnc props from Europe , you got me some as well. this is why we need stock esc's, along with the motors, to keep it real.
Cheers, Jay.

Sorry Darin
This is my last comment to Jay here.

JAY get your facts right before you comment.
The Custom props from Europe are for N2 only NOT LSH.
My LSH props came in RAW form from OSE

Larry

[TRUCKPULL]

Darin

I have been running the (I guess the older one, Gray can with blue end bells) DYNM 1500KV motor in "P" spec MONO and Offshore
The only specs that I can find on it are
6 pole
2 turn

Can you tell me what wind it is "Y" or "D" ??
also what differences are there to the new DYNM 3835 - 1500KV ??

Dynamite also has a DYNM 3910 - 2000KV motor
Would this fit into the "P" spec class??

Larry

[jaike5]

Sorry, my bad. The aqua craft esc that ken mentioned. comes as stock/standard equipment with UL-1 rtr out of the box for spec class.

[Darin Jordan]

Hmmm... Doing some more searching...

Here is an interesting consideration from Neu that might fit.

It's 36mm x 57mm, 205g, 1850KV.

Will have to test to know:

http://neumotors.cartloom.com/shop/item/25324




Here is the description:

The 1410/2Y/SE is designed as a lower cost version of our popular 14XX series motors. It has a little smaller rotor diameter rotor but to makeup for that the stator is a bit longer. The Kv for this motor is 1850 with a no-load current of 1.4 amps. Weight is 205 grams. Diameter is 36.5mm and is 58mm in length. The output shaft is 5mm. We are offering a limited time special on these motors of $99. This motor is a good match for the MidiFan running 6 or 7S and drawing 60-80 amps with thrust in the 70-90oz range. The 1410/2Y also will make a prop plane move right along too with a 8x5 prop and a 3S battery it will draw 50 amps and with 7x7 prop 45 amps.

[raptor347]

50mm stator length as well.

[Darin Jordan]

Hmmm... Doing some more searching...

Here is an interesting consideration from Neu that might fit.

It's 36mm x 57mm, 205g, 1850KV.

Will have to test to know:

http://neumotors.cartloom.com/shop/item/25324

Price is right too! $49.99...

I inquired with Steve and he can have them made in additional winds to cover the required KVs also, though this is the only one he currently has in stock. He has over 100 of them in stock currently.

Would be nice to have another SOLID supplier available.

I've ordered one of these just now and will include them in the testing.

[ray schrauwen]

Hmmm... Doing some more searching...

Here is an interesting consideration from Neu that might fit.

It's 36mm x 57mm, 205g, 1850KV.

Will have to test to know:

http://neumotors.cartloom.com/shop/item/25324




Here is the description:

The 1410/2Y/SE is designed as a lower cost version of our popular 14XX series motors. It has a little smaller rotor diameter rotor but to makeup for that the stator is a bit longer. The Kv for this motor is 1850 with a no-load current of 1.4 amps. Weight is 205 grams. Diameter is 36.5mm and is 58mm in length. The output shaft is 5mm. We are offering a limited time special on these motors of $99. This motor is a good match for the MidiFan running 6 or 7S and drawing 60-80 amps with thrust in the 70-90oz range. The 1410/2Y also will make a prop plane move right along too with a 8x5 prop and a 3S battery it will draw 50 amps and with 7x7 prop 45 amps.

I've mentioned this motor numerous times and Terry thought it would not cut the mustard. I like it.

[Darin Jordan]

I've mentioned this motor numerous times and Terry thought it would not cut the mustard. I like it.

I'm working hard (and spending a LOT of $$$) in order to gather facts that will cut through any speculation.

I'm pretty sure I'm the only one who has actually gotten INSIDE these motors (and will shortly with all these additional motors), to actually physically measure and compare.

When this exercise if finished, we'll know exactly what we are presently have, and then we'll know what might compare.

One thing that is already clear: we do NOT have 36x60mm motors... Every one of the currently approved motors have the same 31.49mm stator and are all considerably shorter than the TP3660 motor I have here. All the currently approved motors are 36x50.

[ray schrauwen]

Thank you for your hard work Darin! Several times I almost bought one of the NEU's but, balked. I'll test the SK3-1900kv motor I have.

----

The SK3 can't be taken apart unless people know more than me. I can still measure the rotor length and field length.

[ray schrauwen]

Turnigy SK3-1900kv

Rotor length 39.6mm

Winding length 46mm

4 poles

D wind

35.8mm Can OD

60mm exterior Length

This motor is packed with copper compared to an AQ 2030, 1800 or PB motors I've had.

[rayzerdesigns]

keep us updated darin...

[RandyatBBY]

Thank you for your hard work Darin! Several times I almost bought one of the NEU's but, balked. I'll test the SK3-1900kv motor I have.

----

The SK3 can't be taken apart unless people know more than me. I can still measure the rotor length and field length.

Most times the end bell is glued on. Hold the motor in your hand and tap firmly on the shaft it will come off. Then put the motor back together and carefully drill and tap threw the can to the end bell.

[ray schrauwen]

Most likely Randy. I don't want to take it apart unless I really need to. If I tap out the end bell it may damage the bearings.

[Darin Jordan]

Turnigy SK3-1900kv

Rotor length 39.6mm

Winding length 46mm

4 poles

D wind

35.8mm Can OD

60mm exterior Length

This motor is packed with copper compared to an AQ 2030, 1800 or PB motors I've had.

Ray,

Greg Schweers is going to send me one of these motors to add to the test pile.

[rayzerdesigns]

I agree with testing..they need to be equal..or very close to it..be thankful we font have the legality testing that we do on the car side..here is a pic from motor tech at roar nationals this past week in california

[Doby]

I agree with testing..they need to be equal..or very close to it..be thankful we font have the legality testing that we do on the car side..here is a pic from motor tech at roar nationals this past week in california

If it ever gets that anal in the FE world, I'm outta racing...

[raptor347]

If it ever gets that anal in the FE world, I'm outta racing...

It's probably the most even and fair racing in RC. Lot's more people involved and many fewer classes.

[Doby]

Probably true...but really, to what extent do you take things before it becomes "not fun" and more of a PITA for the race organizers and competitors. Toy boats...toy boats.....

[raptor347]

Not arguing. It's the big sanctioned races need that level of scrutiny. Some of the problem comes from the technology available in FE. It's easier to stray outside the lines with what is available today. You have to be pretty creative to cheat in most of the IC classes, it usually requires a conscious choice to combine parts that will put you outside the rules.

With regards to FE inspection:
For club races, no real need unless there's a problem with cheating in a particular club.
Nationals, probably should but usually don't.
Time trials, definitely.

Honestly, it's with regards to record trials and records where we hear "was it a legal setup?"or it was "special team motors". Even then, it's online afterwords by non-participants, not at the event.

[rayzerdesigns]

its still fun racing..its a pre qualifying racing inspection..then motors are sealed...it makes for very even and close racing..top 10 qualifiers in stock were all within 3 seconds over a 5 minute round..cant get much closer than that

[Doug Smock]

Honestly, it's with regards to record trials and records where we hear "was it a legal setup?"or it was "special team motors". Even then, it's online afterwords by non-participants, not at the event.

IIRC all of the noise stemmed from the lack of answers when asked about the procedure for technical inspection of the limited motors. I imagine the noise makers that are still interested (if any) will continue to have questions unless there is a clear procedure technical inspections adopted.

Darin is collecting some internal data now. I imagine putting some of that in the rule book would be a good start. Or, we can keep doing what is being done and expect more of the same.

Just my .02 FWIW

[Darin Jordan]

IIRC all of the noise stemmed from the lack of answers when asked about the procedure for technical inspection of the limited motors. I imagine the noise makers that are still interested (if any) will continue to have questions unless there is a clear procedure technical inspections adopted.

Darin is collecting some internal data now. I imagine putting some of that in the rule book would be a good start. Or, we can keep doing what is being done and expect more of the same.

Just my .02 FWIW

OR we just eliminate P-LTD from record eligibility.

[T.S.Davis]

OR we just eliminate P-LTD from record eligibility.

Do you have any idea how much hand wringing this would make go away? I would support this 100%.