Castle Firmware 1.04

**greenblast** · 08-22-2009, 03:42 PM

Joe. i just smoked my hydra 120 i had been running a meanmachine with a 9xl with a 1442 on 14 ep 4500's with no heat at all. i went to 4s 5000 mah i ran one pass turned around ran one more was coming in when i saw smoke billowing.she was running on her tail and was screaming . i dont have my receipt the local shop was changing hands and the owner sold it to me cheap for cash.how should i go about replacement?up until now my hydra 120 was flawless.do i need a 240?

**greenblast** · 08-22-2009, 04:48 PM

joe i am not trying to beat you up on here. your product has been top notch. after the run i checked my prop and i am actually running a k40 prop and lipo 1 just took 950 mah.

**greenblast** · 08-22-2009, 05:07 PM

batt 2 toped off @949mah

**Fluid** · 08-22-2009, 05:24 PM

A good 4S pack will outperform top-notch Ni cells easily, as you saw in the improved performance of your boat. But you used up almost 1000 mAh in just two passes (20 seconds?) - something is way wrong. That would be well over 150 amps average draw, and the peaks would be far higher. The prop and motor are appropriate for the boat and voltage but you are drawing a lot of amps. I assume you are running 1P - if you have 2P then your amp draw would be twice that.

I recommend the 240 for large-format motors like the XL series. You would probably be okay with the 120 until you overproped or ran too long or picked up a few weeds - then

.

**greenblast** · 08-22-2009, 07:00 PM

fluid thanks for the reply. i agree something went way wrong i had run my ep 4500 on this exact setup probably 20 times and pulled about 2700 mah in 3 to 4 min pretty consistently(sp) i run a cooling fan she was taped up for a while before the run and still hooked up after run for approx 5 min.i have never ran so little boat in the water. it was sick! i am not happy about the fire but i am pumped about the speed. i cant afford to do this again lol.i run wire drive it was running free. iwould say the run was about 1 min total between checking the radio and the runs.i am not looking to blame anyone only looking for solutions. i know you are the mm guru so i am all ears so thank you for any input. Don

**Joe Ford** · 08-23-2009, 08:24 AM

14 cell NiMH voltage drop is considerable as mentioned. A 4s lipo pack is the equivalent of about 15-16 cell NiMH. With voltage being higher, staying higher under load, etc...if you didn't change your prop that's what killed it. Much higher current if you increase voltage but don't compensate by changing something else. Send it in to us though. They all have a core value no matter what the damage. Flat rate replacement and we pay shipping back. $105 for a new one. Use this form and we'll get you fixed up. http://www.castlecreations.com/support/repairs.html

**greenblast** · 08-23-2009, 09:59 AM

joe, thanks for the response. would adding caps to the new one be helpful? is this something castle does?i am still trying to find what went wrong.people run larger props on this set up.442 445 545 cog was approx 8.25 strut was 1/4 above rear sponsons slight angle up.maybe my motor cooked and caused the problem she made a thump as the carnage happend.

**Fluid** · 08-23-2009, 11:21 AM

A motor that has over-temped will be de-magnetized and lose a lot of efficiency - it will act like a lower-turn motor as far as the ESC is concerned. This will cause the ESC to work harder and eventually fail - don't ask how I know this(!). The Feigao motors are more prone to heat damage than Hackers or Lehners, which are more prone than Neus. Heat up a Feiago to 150F or more and you can expect some magnet damage. It is cummulative damage so it may not show up until several over-temps. Note that water cooling does little to protect the magnets from heat, a fact to which many boaters seem oblivious.

.

**bustitup** · 08-23-2009, 12:54 PM

Originally Posted by Joe Ford

Flat rate replacement and we pay shipping back. $105 for a new one. Use this form and we'll get you fixed up. http://www.castlecreations.com/support/repairs.html

this is one policy that can not be beat

**Fluid** · 08-23-2009, 11:00 PM

I did and also advanced the throttle trim all the way and still couldn't get a solid red....

Joe Ford posted the following some months ago, I copied it into a Word file on my computer. I hope Joe won't mind me re-posting it in part here.

When updating from version 1.03 to 1.04 you MUST recalibrate. Failure to do so will cause the controller to not reach FULL THROTTLE (as indicated by the LED not going to a steady ON).

The customers who are using v1.04, and feel it has caused their boats to slow down and temps to increase are probably split into two camps.

1) Those who forgot to recalibrate their unit after updating. These guys would likely see a very dramatic decrease in speed as a result of not reaching full throttle. They also would probably see an increase in temperature because they were consistently running at 90% throttle.

2) Those who calibrated their unit and noticed a decrease in top end. This was probably accompanied by lower ESC and motor temperatures. This was caused by the timing being 'fixed'....if the user sets their timing to 'Highest' on v1.04, the unit should run exactly as it did using the v1.03 firmware.

.

**domwilson** · 08-23-2009, 11:34 PM

I lost my instructions for recalibrating. Does anyone have the procedure?

**Ub Hauled** · 08-24-2009, 12:12 AM

Tx on and main power off...
full throttle on Tx and then power the ESC
wait for series of beeps, after the series of beeps there will be a steady beep about a second apart...
go to full break and wait for the series of beeps again, after the series of beeps there will be a steady beep about a second apart... go to neutral (just let go of the throttle on the pistol grip) and wait for a series of beeps...
there will be a brief pause and some more beeps,
it's REALLY important that the final beeps happen, it's the saving of the calibration...
once it stops making beeps, it's good to go and also saved for the next times you run, you may power down or go run.

**domwilson** · 08-24-2009, 01:36 AM

Thank you.

**greenblast** · 08-24-2009, 06:46 AM

recalibrating was a piece of cake .i had solid red on the controller.about 30 mins before the run i used my castle link to change the lvc and was instructed there was a newer version so i joined the mailing list and downloaded it saved the new setting.recalibrated and off i went.i am leaning toward culimative damage in the esc or motor.and stupidity on my part lol.

**Fluid** · 08-24-2009, 07:26 AM

Note that the maximum timing setting on the 1.04 version is 16.25 degrees of advance. This is too much for most applications, Joe mentioned it because with the 1.03 version the "low" timing was actually 16.25 degrees. I'd set it on low or medium with 1.04 and go no higher unless I wanted to do short SAW runs. Or you can use the "custom" setting with the CastleLink....I set the advance to 1 degree with my Neu "D" wind motors.

.

**Joe Ford** · 08-24-2009, 10:41 AM

Hit the nail on the head in both posts, and no, I don't mind in the slightest. Quote me all you want. :) And re the motors you mentioned (I can't name names...no bashing policy here)...the first motor you mentioned "F", a guy came in a couple weeks ago with an SV27, one of their XL ~2900kv motors, and a 4s 8400mah MaxAmps battery (two 2s in series)...packs were puffed after 3rd run. He was so PO'd that he GAVE ME the boat...disgusted with it. Upon testing I found the Gauss rating of the magnets were WAY WAY off, front bearing had failed as well, etc. HUGE amp draw basically and ruined his new 8400 packs (not cheap by any means). I pulled out that motor, tested it, tossed it, and put in Neu 1521/1Y/F with no water cooling. Running on 3s lipo with 10,500mah...took it out last night for the first time. She's a breeze once you get her on plane. Pack was still going strong after 35 min of running...pulled in to check motor temp (timing on low, everything else stock)...motor was at 124F according to my Fluke temp gun. ESC...all I had was an HV240 so it wasn't even warm. Speed was right around stock, but efficiency was through the roof. I only put 3200mah back in...1600 per pack. Great setup for those looking for a little faster than stock speed, but super long runtimes. Going to 4s tonight, then try 6s if temps are ok. :)

**Eodman** · 08-24-2009, 11:43 AM

Joe did I read that right - you were running for 35 imnutes? Or did I misinterpet that?

I am having a hard time getting my head wrapped around Lipos so I just asking not being a smart ass!

**Joe Ford** · 08-24-2009, 12:18 PM

Yes, 35 minutes approx. From 8pm til the sun went down (around 8:30-8:40pm). It's a 1577kv motor (XL length by other companies' ratings), timing on lowest for highest efficiency possible, stock prop, 10,500mah batteries. Once on plane it doesn't draw much current...and I have what my buddies call an on/off trigger finger. No in between. LOL That was full throttle the whole time...amp draw is the least at full throttle, highest when just starting out.

EDIT: One thing to mention, I did "pull over" and hand off the controls to a 7 yo (GREAT driver BTW) and his father as well so take 5 min off that for switching between 3 operators.

EDIT2: checked my specs on my home comp just now. I was wrong. I put 3200 back into EACH pack, not just one. Still great runtime though. Man I need to start drinking coffee again in the AM!

**Raydee** · 08-24-2009, 05:43 PM

This might be a strange one but all my boats but one are running Neu D wind motors with timing on low and run great. My other boat is running a Neu Y wind motor and I can't get the boat to get out of its own way unless I have the timing on race or higher. I ran it on low and med timing and not only was it slow but everything ran hotter (prob because the hull was slow and running really wet) with the higher timing it runs great and even runs cooler. All my controllers are running 1.04 now also.

**greenblast** · 08-24-2009, 10:08 PM

joe 35 minutes do you turn that boat around?i think your controller has been top notch. i had run my nimh for way to long many times.i never had any heat problems.the hottest thing was the batteries.i never melted the shrink wrap or melted connecters. i did prop down. i set the boat up the night before then went to poker night (no new esc after that. lol.) i had forgot i changed the prop and moved up the strut. i was running a cut down 450 earlier that day on nimh. with lipos the speed was awesome and the boat was dialed in.i had always had to run the bats at the back because the boat has foam up front .so my lipos were up to center and she ran so light. i should have checked sooner for heat! i was so confident a run up and back on my pond on nimh and my batts probably wouldnt take a charge lol.3 to4min of bashing was always 2500 to 2700 mah how do you check the magnets? i do have a new motor. this one has been so good. bearings are probably @ the end of life so i run a thrust bearing between the motor and coupler. do you do add the extra caps?are they recomended?would the new controller be covered for a year?i am not blaming your controller i am sure my set up was to hot or my motor was bad and i am trying to find out why.

**cacofonix** · 09-01-2009, 03:29 PM

hi there

just to share latest tests

so as joe said, i plug esc / receiver / lipo BUT not motor.
hold full throttle : led was still blinking

put 150% on radio = same

so i take esc and downgrade firmware to 1.03 = ok

then and error message saying that there is a usb connection problem with esc.

unplugged every thing / plugged again = same
impossible to change setup

so one more time

i upgrade to 1.04 = no problem, i can change set up ...etc

BUT one thing look strange to me : first time i upgrade all my hydra (3 or 4 weeks ago)
throttle and break curves (in castle setup window) was there (green and red)

but this time = nothing, i have to select curve type i want .....

so anyway , i will recalibrate esc and radio, but IF still can not get full throttle .................??

herve

**Joe Ford** · 09-01-2009, 03:37 PM

Originally Posted by greenblast

joe 35 minutes do you turn that boat around?i think your controller has been top notch. i had run my nimh for way to long many times.i never had any heat problems.the hottest thing was the batteries.i never melted the shrink wrap or melted connecters. i did prop down. i set the boat up the night before then went to poker night (no new esc after that. lol.) i had forgot i changed the prop and moved up the strut. i was running a cut down 450 earlier that day on nimh. with lipos the speed was awesome and the boat was dialed in.i had always had to run the bats at the back because the boat has foam up front .so my lipos were up to center and she ran so light. i should have checked sooner for heat! i was so confident a run up and back on my pond on nimh and my batts probably wouldnt take a charge lol.3 to4min of bashing was always 2500 to 2700 mah how do you check the magnets? i do have a new motor. this one has been so good. bearings are probably @ the end of life so i run a thrust bearing between the motor and coupler. do you do add the extra caps?are they recomended?would the new controller be covered for a year?i am not blaming your controller i am sure my set up was to hot or my motor was bad and i am trying to find out why.

Very big lake so easy to keep the boat at full throttle. To test magnets you need a Gauss meter. I only add extra capacitors when I know I'm going to be pushing the batteries. I always run extra caps in my 2s boats because I know to get any kind of speed I need to draw a lot of amperage, and this creates a lot of current ripple (voltage fluctuation). Our ESCs are covered for a year from the date of purchase. If it's a return I think we still only cover for the original year. Not positive. You'd have to check with repairs on that.

**Joe Ford** · 09-01-2009, 03:38 PM

Originally Posted by cacofonix

hi there

just to share latest tests

so as joe said, i plug esc / receiver / lipo BUT not motor.
hold full throttle : led was still blinking

put 150% on radio = same

so i take esc and downgrade firmware to 1.03 = ok

then and error message saying that there is a usb connection problem with esc.

unplugged every thing / plugged again = same
impossible to change setup

so one more time

i upgrade to 1.04 = no problem, i can change set up ...etc

BUT one thing look strange to me : first time i upgrade all my hydra (3 or 4 weeks ago)
throttle and break curves (in castle setup window) was there (green and red)

but this time = nothing, i have to select curve type i want .....

so anyway , i will recalibrate esc and radio, but IF still can not get full throttle .................??

herve

If you still cannot get it, send it in. Do not want you getting too frustrated. :) If new, give us a call and we will send you a new one. Sorry I could not reply sooner...lots of work before play. :)

**Joe Ford** · 09-01-2009, 03:39 PM

Originally Posted by Raydee

This might be a strange one but all my boats but one are running Neu D wind motors with timing on low and run great. My other boat is running a Neu Y wind motor and I can't get the boat to get out of its own way unless I have the timing on race or higher. I ran it on low and med timing and not only was it slow but everything ran hotter (prob because the hull was slow and running really wet) with the higher timing it runs great and even runs cooler. All my controllers are running 1.04 now also.

Definitely from running wet. Go with a little higher pitched prop and low timing and you'll get the same speed and ESC/motor will be cooler. Try it. :)

**cacofonix** · 09-01-2009, 03:43 PM

ok joe thanks for your proposal

phone call ... humm i will but too expensive

i will test again tommorrow and i have a second hydra to test.

herve

**Joe Ford** · 09-01-2009, 04:15 PM

If new, fax us your name, address, CC #, and expiry date to +001 913 390 6164 and we will get new one out to you. Forgot that you are in France. :) CC # is for collateral only. We do not charge or put money on hold. We give you 30 days to return defective product and then we take your CC information out of the computer when we get it back.

**cacofonix** · 09-01-2009, 04:32 PM

ahh , i will bother you again : i don't have fax ......

)

anyway i understand how to proceed. i will make test again tomorrow and let you know

thanks a lot

herve

**greenblast** · 09-01-2009, 07:21 PM

Joe, after reading my post i think i should make it clear i am not bashing your product. i have been very happy with it .its a snap with the usb programer. changing from nimh to lipo i should have been more cautious.i just set up the boat with a cheap esc i could not get to arm a long time ago.it now works with lipos so i coated it and watercooled it. i am pulling between 39 and 44 amps on 1 minute runs. i will send this one in for repair when i can .if i dont ever have to stick program again i will be very happy.

**Raydee** · 09-07-2009, 01:35 PM

Originally Posted by Joe Ford

Definitely from running wet. Go with a little higher pitched prop and low timing and you'll get the same speed and ESC/motor will be cooler. Try it. :)

Well I didn't have a 42mm prop with more pitch so I said the heck with it today and strapped on a X645 prop that was detongued and back cut some. All I can really say is the boat came alive, the motor never sounded so good and the boat was incredibly fast and stable. I only ran for a little over a minute just to be safe and everything was still fairy cool. I am going to bump the timing down with the 645 prop on the next run and see what I get. It looks like these Neu motors def like a big prop, I propped up my Sport 40 hydro from a X447 (modified) to a X450 (modified) and again the boat gained a good amount of speed and power with only a slight temp increase. I am very, very happy with my boats right now

**exotica** · 11-13-2009, 03:17 AM

...well today it appears that my CC Hydra 120 started to smoke on my test bench!!! I cant explain it and have filled out a form online through the CC website to have it sent back for repair, hopefully under warranty as its only two weeks old and seen the water 3 times!! The esc has never gotten wet, im running 2x 2s 5000mah 7.4 lipos and a Nemisis 9XL, prop is Octura X445. My MM 5.5T in my touring car has been flawless. Keep you posted.

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