Futaba 3PDF converted to 2.4 Ghz.

[G Doggett]

After switching to a Futaba Fasst 3PM for my main radio system I was left with a perfectly good Futaba 3PDF on 27 FM that was too good to throw away but nobody seemed interested in buying it locally.
So, I decided to convert it to 2.4 Ghz using one of the Assan Hack modules from Hobby King and use it to control my lower powered boats.
The reasoning was that I get to keep all the digital features of the Futaba but lose all the frequency and glitching problems by switching to 2.4Ghz.
Systems like Futaba Fasst and Spectrum are superior but really expensive, and additional Futaba Receivers at $90 each are bordering on a rip off.
The Assan Hack module is $60 and the receivers only $24.50 each.
The other thing I liked about the Assan was the fact that it has a 160mm long receiver antenna that can be extended outside the boat.

The conversion was a piece of cake to do - remove the original PPM circuit board by undoing two screws and replace it with the hack module.
I simply secured it with double sided foam tape and soldered the three wires as per the instructions.
I have positioned the unit so that the LED lines up with original crystal window in the rear of transmitter and I filled the window with clear epoxy.
The folding antenna is simply glued into the original mounting bracket.
It works like a charm.
If you want to switch to 2.4Ghz without spending a fortune this has got to be the way to go.
Graham.

Sorry the pictures are a bit blurry - crappy phone camera.

[SweetAccord]

There is a strong following of people that have used all the other 2.4ghz systems and love this just as well or feel its the same.

See here: http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=723343


I converted all my FM to the Assan's. They work great, no range or glitch issues and the receivers are smaller than anything on the market hands down! The one posted by Doggett are small but there is a smaller one that I use. The 4 channel X8 R4 Size: 36 X 14 X 3mm (1.97 X 1.02 X 0.39 inch) Weight: 3.2g.

The X8D works great on pistol type radios. On a Futaba 3PM 75MHz radio the X8D fits as if was made for it. No modification to the antenna mount was needed. All you need is to find a spot where you want to install the X8D as there is plenty of room in the Futaba's radios.

Radio install of X8D: There are 3 lines grouped together on the break out board that you need to look for:

VDD (Futaba) = Power goes to Assan +
SIG (Futaba) = Signal line to Assan (PPM)
G (Futaba) = Ground to Assan

All the other lines which are HRS/PPM, CR, Data, RF-SW and Ant are to be unsoldered; place a long piece of shrink tubing over them and pack away as they are not used. The board is also removed as it's held by 3 screws.

Pics:

http://cid-ace3bbbe72a55299.skydriv...IMG%7C_0849.JPG
http://cid-ace3bbbe72a55299.skydriv...IMG%7C_0850.JPG
http://cid-ace3bbbe72a55299.skydriv...IMG%7C_0851.JPG
http://cid-ace3bbbe72a55299.skydriv...IMG%7C_0852.JPG

Also it was confirmed by Futaba that the 3PM 9.6v system WILL operate up to 12v and if a 11.1v lipo is used it will not void the warranty and will operate properly even to 12.1 volts. I also learned today that the X8D will work fine with the 11.1v lipo battery.

Hope that helps.

[G Doggett]

Hi SweetAccord

Yes the receiver you mention is smaller but I chose the X8R3-L because of the longer antenna.
I have a fixation about getting the antenna out of the boat and as high above the water as possible.
Like you I have read every page of this topic on rcgroups, and am impressed by the commitment of Assan to develop this product.

These modules are selling like hot cakes , as fast as HobbyKing get them in they are sold out.

Graham.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Just so everyone is clear, it is absolutely illegal to modify your FCC certified transmitter to change the mode or transmission band. A full module swap in a TX designed for modules is OK, but to go into the TX and start soldering and unsoldering and adding parts is not OK.

Now it is very unlikely that the FCC will track you down, but since both NAMBA and IMPBA say you need to comply with the FCC rules using an illegal transmitter may render your insurance coverage useless.

Of course this only applies in the US. I have no idea what the laws are in NZ or anywhere else.

Let me add that I am referring to the "hack" system and NOT using a plug in module. If the radio was built for a module, then you can change it. But you cannot change anything if it was not built to take modules.

[SweetAccord]

ASSAN CONVERSION KIT COMES WITH A FCC, CE & RoHS APPROVED 2.4GHz TX MODULE.

ASSAN X8 2.4Ghz System is designed to operate in compliance with the RF exposure guidelines set by national authorities. FCC ID: VJ9XRF01

So basically the part that is illegal when you are using a module that integrates into the radio system, as in the flow passes through the non compliant module and then out the antennae provided with the system. The the 2.4s get around this because they do not use the on board antennae, but rather their own. So the module never really integrates with the system, just adds on to the end of the process.

What is ILLEGAL is that a company knowingly selling a non compliant FCC product.

Also the AMA insurance:

Using a module other than one manufactured by the transmitter’s manufacturer would not void your AMA insurance coverage. However, we would like to caution that this more than likely would void your manufacturer’s warranty and could potentially create frequency interference problems.

Best regards,
Ilona Maine
Programs Department
Phone (765) 287-1256
Fax (765) 289-4248
www.modelaircraft.org

So in the end using the ASSAN only voids your actual radio warranty.

[SweetAccord]

Hi SweetAccord

Yes the receiver you mention is smaller but I chose the X8R3-L because of the longer antenna.
I have a fixation about getting the antenna out of the boat and as high above the water as possible.
Like you I have read every page of this topic on rcgroups, and am impressed by the commitment of Assan to develop this product.

These modules are selling like hot cakes , as fast as HobbyKing get them in they are sold out.

Graham.

Yeah the sell well and work well. You just have to place and order and let it be a back order to get them.

[G Doggett]

If it is illegal in the US to modify a radio with an FCC, CE and ROHS approved kit then the regulations are ridiculous and smell of protectionism.
These kits are selling like hot cakes in the rest of the world.
Graham.

[Flying Scotsman]

To be very honest. I do not like a supposed upgrade system redardless of the offshore manufacturer being employed in my radio. Buy the original system.

Douggie

[SweetAccord]

To be very honest. I do not like a supposed upgrade system redardless of the offshore manufacturer being employed in my radio. Buy the original system.

Douggie

Sorry but in my case, I'm not willing to buy ANOTHER radio just to get 2.4GHZ and then have 3 radios.

[Flying Scotsman]

Welcome to 75mhz ..It still works that was the question and buy the original 2.4ghz system not conversions but those most suited for boats

Douggie

[EPower]

If it is illegal in the US to modify a radio with an FCC, CE and ROHS approved kit then the regulations are ridiculous and smell of protectionism.
These kits are selling like hot cakes in the rest of the world.
Graham.

Hi Grahem i have one coming for my flying radio JR X-3810 i have also looked at all the forums and all feedbacks are excellent and the price 89 usd with two receivers

Cheers Adrian

[Flying Scotsman]

Try them in a boat, We await your reply

Douggie

[G Doggett]

Douggie

The point of the exercise for me was to recyle a perfectly good digital radio, eliminate issues with frequency clashes at busy meetings, and get access to reasonably priced receivers for my ever growing fleet.
I will use my Futaba 3PM Fasst in my fast /expensive boats.

I must admit it was also an interesting experiment as I enjoy tinkering about with stuff !

Graham.

[EPower]

Try them in a boat, We await your reply

Douggie

you should read my post properly i will be using it for my planes M8 not boats i have my FASST wheel radio for that but i'm sure plenty of people have already tried them in boats with very good results
Cheers
Adrian

[Flying Scotsman]

Great, look forward to the responses, as I am also a tinkerer

Douggie

[SweetAccord]

Great, look forward tthe responses, as I am also a tinkerer

Douggie

They work great in a boat.

[Flying Scotsman]

That is good news..what range and any glitchiing isuues?

Douggie

[Bill-SOCAL]

If it is illegal in the US to modify a radio with an FCC, CE and ROHS approved kit then the regulations are ridiculous and smell of protectionism.
These kits are selling like hot cakes in the rest of the world.
Graham.

Well,, believe it or not this kit had nothing to do with the laws. They have been in existence for a very long time.

As far as our radios go, if it has a module in it you can plug any compatible module in, no issues.

You cannot swap a crystal in a transmitter or in a transmitter module to change frequencies.

You can swap a crystal in a receiver.

I do not think it has anything to do with protectionism. It has more to do with making certain that approved transmitters are not illegally modified.

[Bill-SOCAL]

[COLOR=#ff0000][COLOR=black]ASSAN CONVERSION KIT COMES WITH A FCC, CE & RoHS APPROVED 2.4GHz TX MODULE.

And I want to be clear that I am not referring to the module based systems. I am talking about the "hack" system where you open the transmitter and solder and remove parts, bypass parts and solder in the new RF deck. That you cannot do.

[G Doggett]

Bill

Correct me if I am wrong, but are you saying that in the US you are not allowed to change a plug in crystal in your transmitter to a different frequency, say from 27.045 to 27.145, if there is a clash with another radio ?
That is unbelievable.
Graham.

[SweetAccord]

That is good news..what range and any glitchiing isuues?

Douggie

NONE. I had glitching with a new Futaba digital servo. Now with the same servo, dead center and quiet.

[SweetAccord]

And I want to be clear that I am not referring to the module based systems. I am talking about the "hack" system where you open the transmitter and solder and remove parts, bypass parts and solder in the new RF deck. That you cannot do.

I'm not racing, so as long as it's FCC, CE & RoHS APPROVED that is all that matters to me.

[SweetAccord]

That is good news..what range and any glitchiing isuues?

Douggie

Range is excellent. Far as you can almost see in RC vehicle. In boat as long as the lake is here locally, and it's way over 300 ft end to end easily.

[SweetAccord]

If it is illegal in the US to modify a radio with an FCC, CE and ROHS approved kit then the regulations are ridiculous and smell of protectionism.
These kits are selling like hot cakes in the rest of the world.
Graham.

There is no local state, county or city law that governs a device is "illegal" if it's FCC, CE, and ROHS approved.

FCC: The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is an independent United States government agency. The FCC was established by the Communications Act of 1934 and is charged with regulating interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite and cable. The FCC's jurisdiction covers the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and U.S. possessions.

These guidelines are strict and when a device is submitted for FCC ID the unit must be described where and how it will be utilized. So as far as we are concerned the Assan is not "illegal" by any general public usage.

What is being referred to as "illegal" is in racing and or private clubs which have their own rules and regulations, but the point is that for general public usage, these rules do not apply to the Assan hence all this "illegal" statements are NULL and VOID.

So if you are so sure they are "illegal" please call the FCC for us all and report this company, as none of us want to break any laws, keep us posted to what you find.

Thank you.

[Bill-SOCAL]

First, since you asked the AMA, this is from the 2009 membership manual:

Any user modification of a transmitter that might affect the transmitted signal is prohibited by law and safety concerns. This includes user replacement of frequency determining plug-in crystals and use of plug-in frequency modules from another manufacturer. Transmitter crystal replacement, with or without a change in frequency, requires transmitter emission realignment by the manufacturer. Use of a frequency determining module manufactured for use in another brand of transmitter can result in off frequency and spurious emissions that cause interference to other fliers.

Then from the FCC Regulations

47 CFR Ch. I (10–1–97 Edition)

Subpart C -

From Part 95.209 (d)

(d) You must not make, or have made, any internal modification to a type-accepted transmitter. (See R/C Rule 22.) Any internal modification to
a type-accepted transmitter cancels the type-acceptance, and use of such a transmitter voids your authority to operate the station.

§ 95.222 (R/C Rule 22) May I make any changes to my R/C station transmitter?

(a) You must not make or have anyone else make an internal modification
to your R/C transmitter.

(b) Internal modification does not include:
(1) Repair or servicing of an R/C station transmitter (see R/C Rule 21, § 95.221); or
(2) Changing plug-in modules which were type-accepted as part of your R/C
transmitter.
(c) You must not operate an R/C transmitter which has been modified by anyone in any way, including modification to operate on unauthorized frequencies
or with illegal power. (See R/C Rules 9 and 10, §§ 95.209 and 95.210.)

This applies to ALL RC transmitters.

There are a few other sections that also apply, but I think these make the point fairly clearly.

[SweetAccord]

Lets summarize: FCC governs here not AMA anyways.

As for the FCC: As already stated: The Federal Communications Commission (FCC) is an independent United States government agency. The FCC was established by the Communications Act of 1934 and is charged with regulating interstate and international communications by radio, television, wire, satellite and cable. The FCC's jurisdiction covers the 50 states, the District of Columbia, and U.S. possessions.

Also a device can't be FCC approved and sold to the US if it has not been FCC approved. By the way, Assans FCC License is: FCC ID: VJ9XRF01 Have you validated that it's not valid or counterfeit before making such a claim and ties it to Hobby Lobby's FCC counterfeiting?

Research before you make such a claim please: FCC official NO COUNTERFEIT ASSAN FCC ID:

https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas/...estTimeout=500

GRANT OF EQUIPMENT
AUTHORIZATION Certification Issued Under the Authority of the Federal Communications Commission By:

Timco Engineering, Inc.
849 NW State Road 45
P.O. Box 370,
Newberry, FL 32669

https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/tcb/...cc_id=VJ9XRF01

If the AMA does not like something the FCC is doing they can duke it out.

Checkmate and nuff said, Im done.

[G Doggett]

Whoa - I'm almost sorry I mentioned my little experiment, but it is kinda fun watching from the sideline.
The rest of the world aren't really bothered about some weird laws within the US and will continue to buy these hack modules as fast as Assan can produce them to convert perfectly good radios to 2.4 Ghz.
I am very pleased with the way my conversion has worked out, and simply wanted to show anyone interested that it is possible to adopt this new technology without spending big bucks.
Graham.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Yep, some of this stuff is very odd and I am sorry it seems to have gotten out of hand. I tried to make a simple statement of fact but it sometimes seems that that is not enough. We have some odd laws here to be sure!!!

Take care.

And to SweetAccord - I sent you a PM but I'll just state here that you clearly are not reading the FCC regs, which yes, ONLY cover the US, but you still seem to not understand how those regs pertain to RC equipment. As to the AMA, that was a response to your post where you mentioned them. FCC laws very clearly state that within the United States that you cannot open up a transmitter and make any modifications, period. They also make it very clear that you can only use a module that was type certified WITH a particular transmitter. The module itself being certified independent of a transmitter does not apply.

But knock yourself out and do what you please, it is highly unlikely that the FCC will ever bother you.

BTW - your links do not work

One final comment - I wanted to make it clear that my original comments were about opening up a transmitter in the US and making modifications. That is clearly prohibited in the US. The use of modules gets a little fuzzy based on how you interpret what the FCC means by "transmitter". Some see that as the RF deck through the antenna. Others say that since what they sell does not include a power source or the encoder then they are still not OK. Like I said, the module thing is a little less clear than the physical modification thing.

The argument that because they sell it means it is OK does not apply. Lots of places sell transmitter crystals and it is absolutely not OK to swap them yourself and the FCC has made that clear before.

[SweetAccord]

Like I said Checkmate again! I'm finalizing my point with facts here. I spoke to the FCC today. So this is from them first hand! Jim Szelliga at 301 362-3000. Call and discuss if you want.

Q. Is there any law that states the following with the FCC Jim? "FCC laws very clearly state that within the United States that you cannot open up a transmitter and make any modifications, period."
A. No.

So not true! There is no such law.

Q. Is there anything illegal with how the Assan is being used installed of transmitting Jim?
A. "No, the Assan device fall under the 15C rules part.

Q. So what does that mean Jim?
A. There is no such law that states you can't open an already FCC approved radio and disable it and use the radio as host which is what the ASSAN is designed for as it's own stand alone transmitter. What is not FCC approved and illegal is to take an existing FCC radio and modify the EXISTING signal 75Mhz for example, or power output or the way it's broadcasting on that already FCC approved frequency which is 75Mhz."

So summary, there is no Law that says you can't open a FCC radio and disable it and use the rest of the radio as a host or shell and use the ASSAN that has been and is FCC approved as it's own stand alone transmitting device.

The ONLY issue is; the device is inside the radio and the rules say a device must show what the device is broadcasting at like a module would. So Assan just needs a sticker or something that shows the radio is operating as 2.4Ghz.

Q. Is this an issue Jim?
A. It's a minor issue but breaks no laws and that is the only real issue we see which is easily resolved.

I'm done. I hope all the people that are using the ASSAN are clear now that it's officially stated by the FCC you are not breaking any laws! Enjoy!

The ASSAN FCC links work for me: https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/tcb/...cc_id=VJ9XRF01

But here is a paste people that may have browser issues:



TCB GRANT OF EQUIPMENT
AUTHORIZATION TCB CertificationIssued Under the Authority of theFederal Communications CommissionBy:
Timco Engineering, Inc.
849 NW State Road 45
P.O. Box 370,
Newberry, FL 32669
Date of Grant: 11/05/2007

Application Dated: 11/05/2007 ASSAN ELECTRONIC CONTROL TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.B1001, Xiya SquareNo.33 Yuzhou Rd.Chongqing, 40039

China Attention: Jianjun Meng , Vice General Manager
NOT TRANSFERABLE
EQUIPMENT AUTHORIZATION is hereby issued to the named GRANTEE, and is VALID ONLY for the equipment identified hereon for use under the Commission's Rules and Regulations listed below.

FCC IDENTIFIER: VJ9XRF01
Name of Grantee: ASSAN ELECTRONIC CONTROL TECHNOLOGY CO., LTD.
Equipment Class:Part 15 Low Power Communication Device TransmitterNotes:2.4GHz RF MODULE

Grant Notes FCC Rule Parts Frequency
Range (MHZ) Output
Watts Frequency
Tolerance Emission
Designator 15C2402.0 - 2480.0

[Bill-SOCAL]

Well then I'll stand corrected. I will also contact them to ask how this squares with 47CFR Part 95.222.