House health bill makes private medical insurance illegal

[Flying Scotsman]

Regardless Steven. I trust your dad is in better health and I mean it. Health care is a very sore point in the USA and honestly I do not understand why you guys get all upset about a universal health care system. The only losers will be the insurrance companies, and you will have the option of private or government care. Yes, your taxes will increase.

Douggie

[Steven Vaccaro]

Regardless Steven. I trust your dad is in better health and I mean it. Health care is a very sore point in the USA and honestly I do not understand why you guys get all upset about a universal health care system. The only losers will be the insurrance companies, and you will have the option of private or government care. Yes, your taxes will increase.

Douggie

Unfortunately he isn't. He's going under the knife on August 11th. The doctor is going to make a door to his heart, literally! So the question still stands, under O's plan does he get the operation that will most likely be at least a 6 figure cost?

I've read online that the Canadian system started out a similar way. Offer a gov plan with a option for private. Is this true?

[Flying Scotsman]

Unfortunately he isn't. He's going under the knife on August 11th. The doctor is going to make a door to his heart, literally! So the question still stands, under O's plan does he get the operation that will most likely be at least a 6 figure cost?

I've read online that the Canadian system started out a similar way. Offer a gov plan with a option for private. Is this true?

No, that is not true. The UK offers that system but in Canada we can pay for non life threating...knee and other surgery, MRI tests with our own cash, or wait out the system. No insurrance coverage on these private procedures. There is no private system as such. I hope your dad has a big angel looking over him

Douggie

[Bill-SOCAL]

Ok, so my father is 67 and needs open heart surgery. He's over weight, had two strokes, diabetes's and has heart problems. Does he get the operation under O's plan?

Yes

Added:

And here's why. Since he is getting it now clearly his current plan is paying for it. Since he can keep his current plan if he so chooses then he most certainly would get the operation. The Obama plan does not take his current plan away from him or force him into another plan. It expands the options for those less fortunate than your father.

Surgery is always stressful, my best wishes are with you and your Dad.

[domwilson]

I wish your father and your family the very best thru these trying times.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Yes

Added:

And here's why. Since he is getting it now clearly his current plan is paying for it. Since he can keep his current plan if he so chooses then he most certainly would get the operation. The Obama plan does not take his current plan away from him or force him into another plan. It expands the options for those less fortunate than your father.

Surgery is always stressful, my best wishes are with you and your Dad.

Clever answer(or should I say spin ), but as you know that wasn't the question. "Does he get the operation under O's plan?"

[Steven Vaccaro]

I wish your father and your family the very best thru these trying times.

thanks.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Yes

Surgery is always stressful, my best wishes are with you and your Dad.

thanks

[Bill-SOCAL]

Clever answer(or should I say spin ), but as you know that wasn't the question. "Does he get the operation under O's plan?"

No spin, I stated very clearly, YES. What more is there to it?? He gets it now he would get it a year from now. No spin, why is that so hard for people to see?

You've all whipped yourselves up into this frenzy that the Gubbermint is gonna make you die or kill Grandpa when in fact that is precisely what the insurance companies are doing now.

But that's OK, as long as it ain't the Gubbermint.

[Rumdog]

If Obama's plan gives you the option to keep your present private health care then yes, he would be covered. That simple.

[Steven Vaccaro]

No spin, I stated very clearly, YES. What more is there to it?? He gets it now he would get it a year from now. No spin, why is that so hard for people to see?

Bill of course its spin, because you are "assuming" that he has private heath care at the present time. What if he doesn't?

Another example, a past employee of mine retired and found out at about 70 years old he had esophagus cancer, the hole operation and rehab cost about $230K, he didn't have private health care. Would he have got the operation?

You've all whipped yourselves up into this frenzy that the Gubbermint is gonna make you die or kill Grandpa when in fact that is precisely what the insurance companies are doing now.

But that's OK, as long as it ain't the Gubbermint.

In both cases the present insurance systems in place will or have flipped the bill for the cost. I re ask the question, on O's plan will they get the care they need to extend their lives?

[Bill-SOCAL]

Steven - I've answered your question three times now. AS far as assuming your father has insurance, if he does not how is he affording the surgery? It seemed like a reasonable assumption. Unless he is covered under the Mass. plan, which changes nothing, because the Obama plan does not take any coverage away of force people to die.

So, one more time - yes, your Dad, and others like him, will be covered, that's the point.

Why this fear of having the government involved instead of your friendly neighborhood mega insurance company escapes me.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Steven - I've answered your question three times now. AS far as assuming your father has insurance, if he does not how is he affording the surgery? .

He has Medicare, which will be changing according to O's plan. By the way he had knee surgery this year, which also wouldnt have been covered by O's plan.

Why this fear of having the government involved instead of your friendly neighborhood mega insurance company escapes me.

Its a legitimate fear and reality. O needs to save money, the only way to do that is to kill off the elderly that are costing it a ton of money now. Does it worry you that none of the people that are writing this new health care bill are not going to have to participate?

[Bill-SOCAL]

Steven - I think your opinion of the reform is irrational and based on fear rather than fact, but I also recognize that there is no way we are going to meet in the middle.

Having watched a good friend die and his family end up broke and essentially homeless thanks to the private insurance company driven system that we now suffer under I welcome any change that breaks their monopoly.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Steven - I think your opinion of the reform is irrational and based on fear rather than fact, but I also recognize that there is no way we are going to meet in the middle.

Having watched a good friend die and his family end up broke and essentially homeless thanks to the private insurance company driven system that we now suffer under I welcome any change that breaks their monopoly.

See you're wrong again(), we can agree on something. I to can recognize that we change. We just dont agree on how far we want it taken.

My health insurance cost over 20k a year. I'm not rich, so its breaking my back, but with 3 kids I have to have it. At that cost its not even a great plan, just covers the important stuff with high deductibles.

[ghostofpf1]

O needs to save money, the only way to do that is to kill off the elderly that are costing it a ton of money now.

Sweet Buddha.... you can't actually believe that ....

Steve

[Steven Vaccaro]

Sweet Buddha.... you can't actually believe that ....

Steve

Ok, maybe I'm wrong. So since I'm wrong and Obama himself can't seem to tell how he's going to fund this, maybe you can?

[ghostofpf1]

Ok, maybe I'm wrong. So since I'm wrong and Obama himself can't seem to tell how he's going to fund this, maybe you can?

Certainly not with the dead bodies of our elder citizens ....

Steve

[Steven Vaccaro]

That's how Obama answers questions and he's wondering why we are all worried.

[Flying Scotsman]

I will step in on this issue, Germany was the first country to offer a publicly funded health care system and yes there are waiting issues for not life threating threats within this system. But lads you are the only Western democracy that does not have this ability for health care. Change is required, check out your coverage on private systems if you travel abroad, you may have a shock.

Douggie

[Bill-SOCAL]

Change is required, check out your coverage on private systems if you travel abroad, you may have a shock.

Douggie

My wife took a work related trip to France 2 months ago. Large group (25 people) traveling together. One of the group fell and broke her leg. Went to the local hospital, got X-rayed, got a cast, some meds and sent on her way. Total time was 1.5 hours. Total cost was ZERO. She is an American. And my wife works for a large hospital in the US. The injured woman was the ER nurse manager. If that had happened here it would have been more like 4 to 6 hours wait and a cost with insurance of $500 to $1,000.

Yep, that system is no good, let's keep ours. Much better that Aetna gets richer than having the Gubbermint force socialized medicine down our throats.

[Steven Vaccaro]

My wife took a work related trip to France 2 months ago. Large group (25 people) traveling together. One of the group fell and broke her leg. Went to the local hospital, got X-rayed, got a cast, some meds and sent on her way. Total time was 1.5 hours. Total cost was ZERO. She is an American. And my wife works for a large hospital in the US. The injured woman was the ER nurse manager. If that had happened here it would have been more like 4 to 6 hours wait and a cost with insurance of $500 to $1,000.

Yep, that system is no good, let's keep ours. Much better that Aetna gets richer than having the Gubbermint force socialized medicine down our throats.

Bill I'm glad she was handled well. It seems you may have solved the entire problem, just add a 20% vat tax on anything bought in the USA like France does and we can now cover a health plan for everyone. I'm in!

It also seems from a few of your comments, that you are upset that a US Insurance company is making money. I'm not happy to make my health ins payments either, but the entire basis of our economy is based off of free market. Controlling markets like both the present and past administration is trending to, isn't what I call American.

[AndyKunz]

But lads you are the only Western democracy that does not have this ability for health care.

So what? I am an American, not a German, not a European. Who says Americans have to do what is popular elsewhere. They should be copying us - we're the ones who liberated them. (Not 100% mind you).

We have OUR Constitution - we don't need to do things their way. A few years ago the Supreme Court referred to a European ruling. They had no business doing that - we have OUR Constitution to refer to.

Oh, that attitude riles me Douggie. I'm proud of my "Cowboy American" independent heritage.

Andy

[Bill-SOCAL]

It also seems from a few of your comments, that you are upset that a US Insurance company is making money.

Not at all. But what I am upset about is a company making obscene amounts of money by delaying and denying coverage, sometimes even retroactively. I also do not like the idea of the high premiums and so on.

In a perfect world I do not see where health care has to be a profit center. If it could be done without sacrificing quality care then I'd be all for it. But that is not the case.

We are number 50 for life expectancy. We are down the list for infant mortality, and so on. By every objective measure there is we pay the most for health care and yet are far, far from #1 in outcomes.

SO this system is OK with you guys?? As long as the insurance company makes money then it's all good??

[domwilson]

You decide...

http://articles.latimes.com/2009/jun...s/fi-rescind17

[ghostofpf1]

I remember watching an interview with a guy who had worked for an insurance company and he stated that his entire existence was tied to reviewing patients files for any and all reasons to terminate no matter how frivolous.He quit as according to him his conscience couldn't take it...

we definitely need reform in one shape or another...

Steve

[AndyKunz]

Read the last paragraph: "Such investigations involve scouring the policyholder's original application and years' worth of medical and pharmacy records in search of any discrepancies."

In other words, they cancelled policies of people who were untruthful.

"Be sure your sins will find you out." -- Numbers 32:23

Andy

[domwilson]

The whole paragraph:

The committee investigation uncovered several rescission practices that one lawmaker called egregious, including targeting every policyholder diagnosed with leukemia, breast cancer and 1,400 other serious illnesses. Such investigations involve scouring the policyholder's original application and years' worth of medical and pharmacy records in search of any discrepancies.

[Flying Scotsman]

I knew I was into trouble when I waded into this debate. Andy do not worry, I did not wish to rile you. You guys have one of the best government checks and ballance system in the world, but your health care system needs some help.

Douggie

[Bill-SOCAL]

In other words, they cancelled policies of people who were untruthful.

Andy

You really do live in a very simple world Andy. Here are some of the "lies" that were used to recind coverage:

"But let me make this more personal and real, through a true story about a 51 year old self-employedSan Diego man named Todd. Todd had been on his wife's insurance plan, but after divorce he found a policy with a well-known company. Five months later, he started feeling tired, and soon had lymphoma.

"Now, the insurance company then went back through all of his records looking for a reason to cut him off. They pointed to a knee problem, unrelated to cancer, and they noted that now he weighed less than he did when he applied for the insurance. Well, duh, of course he did, because now he was sick with cancer. But they cut him off. One month after he got sick the company canceled his insurance. Todd died eight months later. We are taking action so what happened to Todd will not happen to any other Californian."

http://newsblaze.com/story/200809111.../topstory.html

Another example:

Some insurers also investigate policyholders who become ill and review patients' records looking for omissions or misstatements that can be used to cancel coverage (Norman, CQ HealthBeat, 6/16).

According to the investigation, WellPoint, UnitedHealth and Assurant rescinded the policies of more than 20,000 people over a five-year period, which allowed the companies to avoid paying more than $300 million in medical claims.

The investigation also found that policyholders with breast cancer, lymphoma and more than 1,000 other conditions were targeted for rescissions, and that employees who rescinded coverage of patients with costly diseases were praised in performance reviews (Los Angeles Times, 6/17).

http://www.californiahealthline.org/...scissions.aspx

Blue Shield's policy applications were designed to confuse, so that misstatements would provide an excuse for rescission should a policyholder ever require expensive treatment. "At a time when the policyholders are seriously ill, the insurance company walks away, leaving them uninsured, uninsurable and buried in debt," wrote Shernoff, a pioneer in the field of bad faith litigation and an amicus in the plaintiff's appeal

http://www.callawyer.com/story.cfm?eid=899350&evid=1

According to the lawsuits filed today, WellPoint and Blue Cross of California have created "retroaction review" departments whose sole purpose is to terminate policies for patients who had previously been given approval for medical treatments. An undetermined number of patients -- who had been enrolled in policies and paid premiums -- have been told that their coverage is retroactively canceled when they seek medical treatment due to purported discrepancies with information provided in their enrollment form.

http://www.consumerwatchdog.org/pati...5012&bIndex=10

So in your simple world, you lie you die. You cannot accept or understand that this goes way beyond looking for fraud, which rightly should be denied. This is a systematic business practice designed to deny coverage for even the most minor of unintentional omissions.

My wife works with a nurse who was a claims adjuster for Blue Cross. She has told us that their policy was to flatly deny all claims the first 3 times they were submitted. This was designed to discourage people from trying to get their claims paid.

Yes, that is the wonderful world of for profit health care.