Stock TFL Zonda

[stiks]

I have the stock TFL Zonda using 2 seaking 120 amp esc's with stock motors. The boat cuts out during high speed runs but only for a second, then it seems to "reconnect" and run with no issue. The 2 esc's are connected via a Y cable to the receiver; a flysky 3channel. I know some have suggested i change the rx/tx but i have had no other similar problems with the flysky 3gtbs and rx units on any of my other boats. As a way to test that i actually changed to a Futaba rx/tx and still saw the same behavior.

I have tried changing the timing and all the other settings on the speed controllers. I have even gone so far as to replace them with the OSE raider 150amp esc's but i still see the same behavior...runs great, hit full throttle, the throttle cuts out for a second or 2 then picks back up..... Someone from the lake mentioned removing the Y cable but then i will need a rx/tx that does channel mixing or something...

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[Panther6834]

The Y-harness you are using...did you cut one of the + (ie. red) wires? If not, the probable problem is that BOTH ESCs are sending power to the receiver. The 'solution' is to remove the power of one of the ESC's from going to the Rx. Just make sure it's the +, and not the - or S. Both ESCs will still receive throttle signal from the Rx. Thing is, you want only power from one ESC going to the Rx.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[stiks]

I will give that a try. For one of the test i did remove the red + wire from the "main" connection on the Y that goes into the RX. But you mention having "only power from one ESC going to the Rx", so what i did was actually disable power from both by doing it at the main connection.

I will try your method and will post.. As a side note when i performed "my method" i used a rx battery pack to supply power to the RX and i still had the same cutting off issue. I will let you know if i get better results on the next trip out.

Thanks

[Panther6834]

You're welcome. I know, work my Skater X2, that was the problem.

Another possibility could be related to the batteries & ESC programming (something else I learned from personal experience). Several weeks ago, when rubbing my SonicWake on 4S, I had the same thing happen. In my case, it was because I had forgotten I programed the ESC for 6S. You might want to check your ESC's programming...see if the ESC, for the battery & LVC, is set to 'Auto', or a specific 'S'. You never appreciated what your were running...but, for example, if you're running 4S/3S on each ESC, but the ESC is programmed for 6S/4S, that would likely be the cause of yours temporarily cutting out when you go full-throttle.

Another battery-related possibility is the 'C' rating of your batteries. Again, you never specified what you're running...but, if the discharge rate (ie. the 'C' rating) is too low, that could possibly be the cause. 25-35C packs are great for crawlers, but not-so-good for most bashers, and downright horrible for almost all boats. 45-60C is great for bashers, and can still be good in crawlers...but, is still to low for most boats. 75C, and above, is good enough for most boats, but would be horrible in SAW boats, NPRC drag cars, and speedrun cars (all three of which really need 150C, or above).

If none of these are the 'cause', then it's possible you have a defective ESC. While having two identical ESCs be defective it's possible, it's unlikely...unless both came from the same production run, and the entire run was defective. This is another one I know from person experience...about 2 years ago, Castle had an entire production run of MMX 8s & Mamba X ESCs (but, strangely, not the MMX ESCs produced during the same run) that were defective, which led to wow a few motors getting damaged. They replaced all the MMX 8S & Mamba X ESCs, and repaired all motors damaged by said ESCs, and no charge.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Bande1]

what batteries are you running?

[fweasel]

If you are running two ESC's with BEC circuits (supply voltage to the receiver on the red wire) along with a receiver battery pack, then you MUST cut or depin the red wire on BOTH legs of the Y harness, not on the single receiver connector. In addition to stopping the BEC voltage from getting to the receiver, you can't short the BEC circuits of both ESC's against each other.

A stock Zonda can pull some serious amps on 6S with aggressive props or a wet hull setup plowing through a lot of water. 120A ESC's are a bit under sized, and even 150A is on the lower end, but better. It could be a sensitive Low Volttage Cutoff circuit, or your batteries suck are are experiencing a severe voltage drop right when you go full throttle.

[stiks]

Ok...its been awhile since i posted anything on any forums so forgot the details... Here you go.

-Batteries=YooWoo 3 cell 5000mah 100c rating; running them in series so it is 6 cell per motor 5000mah
-stock TFL Zonda i will have to look at the kv on the motors
-ESC 2 150amp with caps OSE Raiders

Regarding the rx battery pack. I only used it after disabling the red wire from on the Y connector from the 2 escs. So there was no "dual" power connected at the same time. I have tried the rx with the battery pack and without with the same results.

Regarding the programing.. We checked the setup of the ESCS prior to running them, they are set to Auto for LVC (or default), we set the cells for Auto with the same result but then changed it to 6 cell, with the same result. The original esc's where the 2 120amp SeaKings but i replaced them with the brand new 150amp w/cap OSE raiders..

I will try to post video later....

Thanks again!

[fweasel]

Disable LVC for your next test. Be careful to not run the batteries down below 3.8V, the test is only to see if you can make a full throttle pass without cutting out.

Again, just to be clear, the Raider 150 ESC has a BEC circuit and outputs 6V on the red wire. In a twin setup, you must cut the red wire on one of the Y-cable ESC legs so that only one ESC powers the receiver. In a twin setup running an rx battery, you must cut the red wire on BOTH ESC legs of the Y-cable so that the BEC circuits don't short each other out.

[Panther6834]

Adding to the previous comment, if you have a couple Seaking 180A ESCs, try testing with those, see what happens. If there is no 'cutout', then that gives a high probability that the problem is with the Seaking 120A ESCs. If there is still a problem, then try the Raider ESCs work different motors.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[stiks]

Here is a video i found from my last run.

https://youtu.be/nhZK3kt26Pw

[leski379]

What happens if you slowly pull to full throttle? When the cut happens, do you have to put the trigger back to neutral before it restarts, or does it correct itself while staying full trigger?

Do you get the same issue with a different set of packs?

[Xrayted]

Seaking ESCs are just rebranded Hobbywing ESCs, and HW ESCs are well known to be very over current sensitive. Shutting down when under a hard load, and then instantly good again is what they do when you exceed the ESCs current limits, and why it starts right back up again when you let off.

All ESCs have an advertised current limit, but some will tolerate going over that limit (burst current) for a bit much better than others do, and unfortunately HW does not tolerate much over the limits for very long. Make sure to test again after turning of the LVC as others have suggested, as that can also cause the same behavior if your packs voltage is dropping too low under load, but if it still continues, then it means you are pulling more current than the ESC can handle, and will either need to change to less aggressive props, or switch to more capable ESCs

[Bande1]

At the boat club today another member had is single motor zonda I think. maybe a cheetah. has spektrum esc. its doing the exact same thing. just got brand new SMC's today and I drove the boat for him. anything over 65% throttle cuts. LVC is totally off. Radio signal is strong. there are no shorts in the wiring. prop is tiny.

Has to be the ESC cant take it. boats pull a ton of amps.

[Panther6834]

Seaking ESCs are just rebranded Hobbywing ESCs

Seaking ESCs aren't "rebranded" Hobbywing ESCs...they ARE Hobbywing ESCs...made by Hobbywing, sold by Hobbywing, and sold AS Hobbywing.

Almost all of my on-road & off-road race vehicles have, or have had, HW ESCs...and, except for one I had installed in a TLR 22 5.0 AC buggy, for which the 'problem' was that it was defective, personally, I've have never had any problems with HW ESCs.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Xrayted]

All of my Seaking 120 and 180 ESC's are now in my spare parts box. My Castle Mamba Monster X 8S ESC's converted to water cooling with Stumpfab cooling plates have been bulletproof, and no more shutdowns just like this user is having. I routinely hit 300A in the datalogging the ESC has, and never once an over current shutdown.

It's only shut down once so far, and that was for over temp, as I somehow managed to throw a boat in the water without noticing that I didn't reconnect either of the water lines to the rudder I had been working on. Even then, it started back up again after a couple minutes

[Xrayted]

Seaking ESCs aren't "rebranded" Hobbywing ESCs...they ARE Hobbywing ESCs...made by Hobbywing, sold by Hobbywing, and sold AS Hobbywing.

Almost all of my on-road & off-road race vehicles have, or have had, HW ESCs...and, except for one I had installed in a TLR 22 5.0 AC buggy, for which the 'problem' was that it was defective, personally, I've have never had any problems with HW ESCs.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

Yes, you are correct, and maybe the word "rebranded" wasn't the best choice. My point was that many may not realize its just another name used by the brand, and that brand has well known limitations by those of us who have used it for years.

I'm also a heli guys and have used many of them over the years in my models, and they have worked well, BUT, its well known in the heli world as well that LVC MUST be disabled due to false shutdowns, and that the over current shutdown is overly sensitive compared to other brands. I fly 150+ mph speed competition models pulling big currents for seconds at a time, very similar to boats, so the fact that someone else says they "never had any issues" only means they aren't pushing it hard enough to have one. I had to replace that models ESC with another brand of the exact same current ratings for the same reason, which is too much over current sensitivity. The other brand has never shut down.

[Notoriousone]

Are you doing speedruns? IMO most likely the batteries are the issue, or just the fact that hobbywing esc's cut out to protect themselves if you get on the trigger too fast and hard. If your trying to get to top speed than nothing is more important than a smooth progressive trigger pull no matter what equipment you have. My Zonda has Seaking 180's that dont cut out as I specifically pay attention to doing a progressive trigger pull with no jerky movements. Its harder to do than it sounds, as once near full throttle almost everyone has a tendency to just jerk the trigger back to get to full throttle, but that generates a spike in the current/amps and thats why the cut happens. As others said, disable LVC on the esc and that should help also

[stiks]

Sorry, took me a while to get back here... We finally got back out on the lake after the holidays and i did some more video. I attached a small clip here to give everyone an update. As directed i tried removing the red wire (power) from one of the ESC's that i have connected to the Y. As you can see in the video i am still getting cut-out when try to go full throttle. The batteries are in good condition and i have run them in my other boats with no problems like this.

But there is now a new "curious" wrinkle to the problem.

I had my Pro Boat Miss Geico with me but forgot to bring the TX for it. It is all stock so the TX/RX are the stock Spektrum equipment. So i decided to use the FlySky setup i have for the Zonda. I pulled the Spektrum RX out and used the FS RX and the existing model (cat for cat). There was a "pairing" that needed to occur because when i first powered up the Proboat the esc's did not "sync". One of the other guys performed the sync pulling the trigger on startup to get the esc's to "sync". So long story short i sealed up the Proboat and ran it and it did the same thing as the Zonda....the motors cut out when attempting to go full speed. So it seems like the TX/RX might be the issue, now seeing that the Proboat did the exact same thing as the Zonda... BTW, the Proboat had a fresh set of batteries in it.

Anyway, i going to take my spare Spektrum RX/TX that i have from an older boat and try it on the Zonda this coming weekend. So i will post an update after that.

[jkflow]

Get a new buddy , 'full trigger to sync' is utter BS, it will give you overcurrent which result it cut-off as you experienced.
Whatever happens, look at the LED blink code, it will tell you what happened.

I do not recommend Spektrum for this at all, range is about 3-400 feet before it cuts, probably less if you have an internal antenna, really depends on your area though. It is ok if you are in the right location i.e. middle and you can run left and right.

[Xrayted]

I'm assuming the ESC "sync" he is describing is the just the throttle endpoint calibration that is required when switching TXs with any ESC. Pull full throttle and then power up the ESCs and get a max endpoint tone, let go and set the low throttle endpoint. Its the normal required HW ESC calibration, and the boat motors aren't even running during the process.

The OP still hasn't said if he ever used a program box to disable the LVC like was suggested long ago, and the HW ESCs are definitely going to keep shutting down if not. The ProBoat also comes with HW ESCs, and will shut down all the same for the exact same reason no matter what TX/RX combo is being used. I tossed in a couple HW 180s into my Miss Geico twin, and they shut down at full throttle just like the 120s did.

Agaian, Ive never used a HW ESC in ANY RC vehicle including my helis that didn't shut down randomly unless you disabled the LVC. They are over sensitive to both LVC and over current shutdowns, and most times my telemetry voltage values didn't get anywhere close to the set values, yet they still shut down. They may be great for lower load setups, but they are too sensitive for high power applications, sometimes even with LVC disabled because there is no overcurrent setting that can be disabled

I haven't had a single issue with my Castle ESCs under the same circumstances