Who's Running a Micro? => Less than 16"

[Ctonez]

I also have a brushless gecko...
I think the motor is a Feigao 6S. I run it with a 2S 2050mah lipo.
It has the blue micro hardware from OSE.
45amp ESC with a Pistix.
does 30ish with a 31mm prop...still tuning.
I have yet to flip it...pretty much self righting which is really cool. Really really fun!!!

no video or pics yet.

[NativePaul]

My Oncilla 430mm cat for mini hydro currently running on 3s1p 2300mAh A123, Mega 16/15/2, Castle Pheonix35, 1mm wiredrive, X427 with about 3/5ths its original blade area.
For reference the European Mini Mono, Mini Hydro, Mini Cat(where existent) and Mini ECO(the only Mini class which has been adopted by Naviga and gone worldwide at the moment) classes are all for hulls of 450mm and under(around 18") so there a decent and growing number of hulls in this size range.



Not the prettiest boat ever but function over form, the cockpit is that shape to fit the gear in and it does only just fit.


No room for or need for velcro to hold the battery in, it hasn't got anywhere to go, what you cant see here is the motor and servo, the servo is hidden in the tailpipe, although it has since been relocated to the starboard sponson.


The motor sits up front in the cockpit to maintain CoG and keep the bend on the wire to a minimum. Seen next to the battered and abused old 448mm Firecrest which it replaced, designed for a lot less weight and a higher top speed the sponsons are a lot narrower and there is much less tunnel lift.


First time in the water and she does float, Just.


Running in Mini Hydro at the nats, different rules to my local series so running 2s 1800mAh 30C Kokam pack here on stock X431, I may make a slightly smaller but much prettier one for LiPo at some point.

[Meniscus]

Paul, I really like that cat. I have a few questions for you if you don't mind. Where's your COG and also, do you have any other pictures of local guys that have similar small boats?

Thanks for the input guys!

[NativePaul]

From memory the CoG is at about 40% now, was 30% in that photo of its first wetting with its arse under water, but it was too flighty there.

No similar boats, I believe I am the only one racing cats in Mini Hydro, I know I'm not the only one that has a mini cat but most are the scale type that are too narrow to compete with a rigger for ovals, although I have heard rumors that someone has made a self-righting F1 cat for this season. No close up pics sorry, I'm running on a crappy copy of windows without any service packs and Linux at the moment and neither will recognise my USB2 external had drives. Our first race of the season is on sunday assumeng my car makes it there, which is not a foregone conclusion at the moment, I will take some close ups of the mini classes for you, no action shots as I should be running. till then best I can do you is this closer shot of the Oncilla and a mini rigger.


Theres a thread about my Oncilla here if your interested have a look, if your really interested I have the WoF templates on paper, we may be able to come to an arangement.

[befu]

Those look neat. I need more time to build boats, looks cool.

I have finally seen a cat with a wider aspect ratio than the mean machine now!

Brian

[Meniscus]

Great info Paul! This kind of input captures the spirit of this thread and is exactly what I had in mind when I started it.

I am very interested in the design plans and your lessons learned. I'm not so much concerned about the action shots, but definitely take lots of pictures of the models not on the water. As we begin to generate more interest in micros and minis here, it will help to show what the rest of the world is doing.

With regards to your car, remember there are a few things you should always have in the trunk. They are as follows: #1 Duct Tape, #2 Electrical Tape, #3 Zip Ties. If it can't be fixed with one of those, it probably doesn't need to be fixed! J/K, LOL! Realistically though, a set of pantyhose or extra serpentine belt is good as well as Starting Fluid/Ether. A cell phone isn't a bad idea either!

I hope you make it to the race!!! If I was there, I'd certainly give you a ride.

[Meniscus]

Paul,

How did your race go? Did you make it?

[NativePaul]

Yeah I made it, got the car fixed on Saturday, but my brain and my battery box didnt make it so the race didnt go for me, I did stay to do dutys and take some pics though. the wind was blowing in the worst possible direction and it was rougher than I have ever seen that lake before with breaking waves on the course, and conciquentially the micro classes were not very well supported we combined the classes to get a race but had only 4 starters, 3x mini monos and 1x mini ECO all selfrighting, after seeing the first heat I wasnt to disapointed about not being able to run, I dont think my Oncilla would have stood a chance.
Here are the close up Pics:-
H&m Redbird, Feigao 380 10s, 2s 2100 thunderpower LiPo.

[NativePaul]

Modified ToysPort Joker family, mini in the forground cut into 13 peices, some discarded and joined back together to make it under 450mm and narrower than the origional, standard in the middle, and large at the backwith bits of 3 boats grafted togeather for rough weather, the mini has a lehner 15 series, cant remember which one. on 2s LiPo.

[NativePaul]

Eagle. cant recall who makes this on but its an old Mono1 hull from brushed daysthat at under 450mm is was too small for the Current Mono1, theres a few old hulls like these and my Firecrest coming out of retirement with the new Mini class power here is a Lehner 15series on 2s LiPo.

[NativePaul]

Another Eagle, this time powered by a Mega 16/15/4 and 39mm prop, I forgot to ask what the LiPo was but from the low KV I would guess 3s (Electra my local race series, has a 43v maximum voltage limit for all classes and restricts power with a pack weight limit)

[NativePaul]

Befu, wider aspect ratio than the MM is an understatement, I was very suprised when I got my MM how narrow it is considering the good reports I've had of its handling, it isnt any wider than some of the german cats, my Oncilla is only about an inch or so narrower despite being a foot shorter.

Because its carrying a lot less weight, 5-700g instead of about 2kg the ride plates are much smaller so although it is narrower than the MM the tunnel is considerably wider.

[Meniscus]

Paul, great pictures!!! Thanks for the link to Electra!

After I do some reading, I'm sure I'll have lots of questions, but in the meantime, I really appreciate you taking the pictures and convincing your local guys to allow you to take them.

[Meniscus]

Here's a video for anyone interested in what micros can do:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BuiI...ayer_embedded#

[Amp User]

Most of this thread shows what I would consider mini boats.
Micro boats are really down in the 16inch range. Nano boats are under 9inches.

Here is my10 gram out runner powered original micro rigger design.
weight ready to run 4.5oz.
Self made 20mm metal surface prop.
Rino 20C 3S 360mah Li-poly cells .
Radar confirmed 24mph with a 2009 Bushnell Velocity Gun on 37.4 watts.
No load 36,400rpm checked with a laser tach.
Note the motor uses silver winding wire for max performance.
(There is no boat going faster on a 10gram motor currently in the world that I know of and I have been watching for it.)
Anyone else willing to try to go fast on a 10gram motor? Prove it lol.

I replaced 248mah back into the 3S 460mah pack after the run in this posted video. Actual motor time 4.46 mins burning average of 55.6 mah per min.
It would take 8.27 mins to run the pack to 0 mah. Watt meter shows 12.4v .92amps no load at 11.3w. Average amp draw under load was 3.34amps,that's average watt draw of 37.4w.

Beyond Spec Races; All (types of boats) should be based on weight of motor for proper races along with cell count and mah range. Size doesn't matter after that as the designer will build to suit his power package.

The goal was to have a rigger ride high on its prop spinning as much rpm as possible from of one of the smallest outrunner motors on the market today.
To perform balls out with high rpm to give the operator the joy of performance from a very light and small rigger at minimal cost! This was made to enjoy small local ponds near home or right around homes. The size is not to harm turtles, birds or upset home owners with annoying activity and noise.

There is enough room for up to 26 grams of (out runner) motor. The design is stout enough to handle 45mph in moderate water conditions. Of course make fatter boats and you can shove 300watt systems in most sub 15inch boats with ease. The tub on this rigger at its widest point is 1.25inches and 1.15 inch tall in the belly area for the motor.

Enjoy the vid after about 4 laps I settle in close to the shore line.

Back in the day we had small, med and large boats. Times have changed.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ok2rX...eature=related

[NativePaul]

Race classes by motor weight is probably the least fair way you could possibly run a class, if one person can afford a 90% efficient motor and another can only afford 80% then the guy with deep pockets has double the output power available to him before overheating his motor than the other guy, if you have a set run time with a set battery energy the guy with deep pockets only has about 12% more output power, which is what we see here, guys with feiagos and zippys can compete against guys with lehners and thunderpowers and actually have a chance of winning as good setup and driving can easily make up for 12% more power which should yield a boat 4% faster down the straight, doubt even the best drivers can make up for 100% more power which should yield a 25% faster boat.

[Meniscus]

Kyle, thanks for sharing your build. What prop were you using?

Race classes by motor weight is probably the least fair way you could possibly run a class, if one person can afford a 90% efficient motor and another can only afford 80% then the guy with deep pockets has double the output power available to him before overheating his motor than the other guy, if you have a set run time with a set battery energy the guy with deep pockets only has about 12% more output power, which is what we see here, guys with feiagos and zippys can compete against guys with lehners and thunderpowers and actually have a chance of winning as good setup and driving can easily make up for 12% more power which should yield a boat 4% faster down the straight, doubt even the best drivers can make up for 100% more power which should yield a 25% faster boat.

Paul, I was just talking to one of the local guys about the approach you'll are using to level the playing field. I really like the thought process.

[Amp User]

Spec races that require the use of only a handful of preselected motors is for sure the best way to level the field with the same done for the batteries. I was refering to all the other races, when any motor brand is used in a given size hull. Pardon me for getting off subject.

Large, Medium, Small/Mini, Micro, Nano

[NativePaul]

HydroNigel is definitely the man to beat in Mini Hydro, he always builds light and VERY fast boats, last time we raced was at the 08 nats, he won, I came second but that doesn't tell the whole story, he was on another level to the rest of the field, 4 laps up on me after our best two 5 minute heats.

I haven't seen that particular boat run, but I wonder if he gets the runtime on that setup or runs his laps then pulls in till the end, the Het 2w 4800 is a clone of the mega 16/15/2 that I use and on 3s 1500 LiPos should be spinning a few K higher, about 50,000rpm.

[lucozader]

my baby

[HYDROJERRY]

Runs good and the dog likes it cool..i keep trying to win some mini-c's on ebay to do the same with them but i keep getting beat...o welll

[Meniscus]

Here's a boat video of a micro rigger out of France. Enjoy.

And another video after tuning.

[305MIAMI]

who makes micro riggers? i have a starship and want to get a smaler rigger.

[Amp User]

How small do you want to go as far as micro and how heavy is the starship?

[Meniscus]

305MIAMI,

There are several available throughout the world. Amp_User's question is very appropriate.

In addition to his question:
What size are you looking for, what do you want to do with it (oval, small pond, swimming pool, etc) and what speed do you want to go?

[4X4FABGUY]

Hi Guys, heres a pic of a couple of my little guys. The one in front is a wood hydromite I built from plans I got free and scaled down 14 inches. It has a mystery brand 3000kv outrunner and 25 amp spd con. I run a rhino 40c 3s 1050Mah lipo. The prop is a 432 cut down to 430, detounged and very thin and sharp. Its crazy fast. Very fun to run. The cat is a carbon fiber micro scat cat from BBY. Its now an empty hull, I am still looking for the right set up for it. Mike M

[Meniscus]

Mike, those are some good looking micros, nice builds. What setups have you tried in the micro scat cat? I've been looking at picking one up for quite some time and have crunched numbers and setups. Send me a PM and I'll share with you my thoughts on setup.

Can you confirm where you got that turn fin for the hydromite?

[305MIAMI]

Welll i was thinking some thing like this check it out.

http://www.microhydros.com/stephan_lindenau/stephan.htm

[305MIAMI]

This is my back yard where i can run almost anything!
Always flat!

MINY V-HULL AT HOME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_8UMPec2Z1Y

MINY HYDRO AT HOME
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pD11d8fXtzE

[sailr]

I tried the website that the guy said sells that beautiful little hydro but it's only a forum. No store. No products. Bummer. I would love to have that hull about 32" long!

Welll i was thinking some thing like this check it out.

http://www.microhydros.com/stephan_lindenau/stephan.htm