Watch Christopher Hitchens Get Waterboarded (VANITY FAIR)

[EPower]

yuo are a MORON

I guess i was harsh in that comment so i would like to apologize to Darin
in my book any kind of torture is totally wrong it doesn't archive anything at all

[RCprince]

first, I want to apologize to rcprintz and socal bill for my previous comments. I was reading this post and seeing Darin get hammered or tag teamed from coast to coast for expressing an opinion. My comments were out of line.
second, waterboarding and all other forms of torture seem bad to me. Sometimes the end justifies the means but not to often ( telling Grandma you loved the bunny slippers she knitted you. It's still a lie). It seems like a case to case examination would apply. Darin nor I make policy and everyone has their own beliefs and convictions and nothing will change that. You believe what you want and I will not try to convince you differently.
third, I doubt waterboarding was the result of 1 or 2 rogue interrogators but a policy passed down from the administration and pelosi said congress was briefed on interrogation procedures including waterboarding by the FBI but said she didn't think that was implemented yet. What about sodium penothol or lie detectors, etc. Not a clue whats available as I don't do this for a living. To find the responsible party will be difficult and costly and never be achieved. It's not a pyramid where you get one top guy but more of an hour glass where there are many involved at the top.
fourth, once again my apologe to everyone I offended.
Brian



P.S What does SAW stand for?

Hey its cool apology accepted, I have nothing but love for Darin... nothing here is personal except the issues... prove your point, your political view or ideology... as for me it's all a good debate. But in the greater scheme of things it doesn't really matter because this earth was created for every living being on it, from a bacteria to the blue whale.

Nevertheless, there seems to be a hand full of people who believe the world resources are for them to profit off of. they plunder indiscriminately the raw material from poor countries who choose not to partake in the industrial age, but to just live a simple earth respecting life( taking no more than is needed and cleaning up your mess). When they like everyone else came and found it here and will leave it behind when they die. Nothing happens in a vacuum, everything that's happening abroad will happen here in this country. It's Karma baby

I'm not a Republican or Democrat, I'm neither Black or White... I'm neither American nor foreigner. Jew, Christian, Muslim nor Gentile. The one thing I am and will always be is, first, second and last... is a Human being, and in being a human being my alliance and allegiance is to Humanity and our Birth Right ( Clean air, Clean Water, Clean food and proper shelter) You can't come to me with a pseudo religious ideology or god and with your actions and associations, you help in the depriving of other human beings.

It is written: “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’ ”

[Bill-SOCAL]

And I was always taught never to spit in a man's face...............

Unless his beard is on fire!!

This is a particularly civil forum, I think because unlike many other forums lots of us have actually met each other, and that makes a difference.

Personally, I try to avoid name calling. I leave that to the right wing extremist nut jobs to do.

And to be clear, I was not calling out EPOWER for calling Darin a moron. I was calling him out for not at least spelling correctly in doing so. The irony was too much for me to let pass.

Personally I think anyone who doesn't agree with me is mentally challenged (nice word for moron), but it is none the less amusing to banter with them!!

Then we can go race and drink beers afterwards.

[bwells]

I did not call Darin a moron and my spelling is rather good!

[EPower]

And I was always taught never to spit in a man's face...............

Unless his beard is on fire!!

This is a particularly civil forum, I think because unlike many other forums lots of us have actually met each other, and that makes a difference.

Personally, I try to avoid name calling. I leave that to the right wing extremist nut jobs to do.

And to be clear, I was not calling out bwells for calling Darin a moron. I was calling him out for not at least spelling correctly in doing so. The irony was too much for me to let pass.

Personally I think anyone who doesn't agree with me is mentally challenged (nice word for moron), but it is none the less amusing to banter with them!!

Then we can go race and drink beers afterwards.

[Bill-SOCAL]

I did not call Darin a moron and my spelling is rather good!

That makes me the moron for tonight!! I fixed my post.

[EPower]

I did not call Darin a moron and my spelling is rather good!

He was talking about me

[Dr. Jet]

I'm glad we are giving up on torture. Now these people will respect us.

[RMZDADDY]

Too bad you can't reason with cockroaches, the only other option is to exterminate them.

[Dr. Jet]

Most Westerners fail to realize that these people are taught nothing but hate from the time they are infants. Take a look at the ages of the people in those photos and the glee they have on their faces.

How do you negotiate with someone whose philosophical position is "All Infidels must die"? Do you start with "OK, Mohammed, let's say only half of the Infidels must die, and you can only drive half of the Jews into the Mediterranean."?

Until you can reverse all those years of hate-training, there will be no negotiations. They want to KILL anyone that does not think as they do. That means Left-wing extremists (like Bill) and Right-wing extremists (like me). They don't care; they want ALL of us dead unless we are on a prayer mat facing Mecca five times a day. We have no recourse but to kill them before they kill us.

Yes, I wish we could all sit around the campfire and sing Kumbya (sp?) but that won't happen in this lifetime.

[RCprince]

Most Westerners fail to realize that these people are taught nothing but hate from the time they are infants. Take a look at the ages of the people in those photos and the glee they have on their faces.

How do you negotiate with someone whose philosophical position is "All Infidels must die"? Do you start with "OK, Mohammed, let's say only half of the Infidels must die, and you can only drive half of the Jews into the Mediterranean."?

Until you can reverse all those years of hate-training, there will be no negotiations. They want to KILL anyone that does not think as they do. That means Left-wing extremists (like Bill) and Right-wing extremists (like me). They don't care; they want ALL of us dead unless we are on a prayer mat facing Mecca five times a day. We have no recourse but to kill them before they kill us.

Yes, I wish we could all sit around the campfire and sing Kumbya (sp?) but that won't happen in this lifetime.

Dr.Jet I know you are FAR more intelligent than you project yourself to be in these paragraphs... far more. First off Britain imposed on Palestine the European Jews... they played pin the tail on the donkey when they were looking for land(That's the short end of that stick).

Second, like extreme Muslims their are some extreme Christians also... here in American we call them Religious Right, who believe like the Romans, that if they are living beings, it's open season for the bloodletting. Likewise their are peaceful Muslims who seek to live in peace and only peace. By they way, what's this obsession you have with death, for a christian you sure seem personify


"Revelation 6:7 - 6:8
7And when he had opened the fourth seal, I heard the voice of the fourth beast say, Come and see.
8 And I looked, and behold a pale horse: and his name that sat on him was Death, and Hell followed with him. And power was given unto them over the fourth part of the earth, to kill with sword, and with hunger, and with death, and with the beasts of the earth."

Judgment is for the lord. and visit this one Matthew 22:39. I find myself subscribing to the concept of universal laws and one of those laws are the laws of attraction... so maybe, just maybe people hate you (westerners) because you hate yourselves and I know we wear mask on a daily basis to hide our trueself from each other.

I think Kevin Spacey said it best in the Movie Se7en "Here is it you have a woman, so ugly on the inside, that she couldn't bear to live with herself unless she looked good on the outside"


I was gonna post some pics, where not in our so distant past, people enjoyed themselves a lot more when it came to those types of jubilees and carrying out of so called justice here is one (I'll delete it later and lets not forget Jasper, Texas.)

[Bill-SOCAL]

Why is it that the right feels the need to look at the world in binary terms. Yes Jet, unless we torture people then there will be a repeat of the incident where the Blackwater contractors were murdered. Simple, right?

But wait, we were already torturing people when that happened. I suppose we just did not torture them enough. 183 water board session in 30 days was insufficient I guess.

And why is it that you feel the need to talk in terms of "these people", which demonstrates an inability to see that there is no such thing as "these [people". The entire Muslim population of the world is bent on the destruction of the US?? Really?? Then I guess we can assume that every Born Again Christian supports, killing abortion doctors to protect the sanctity of life. I guess then that all white people want to kill black people because the Klan does. Right?

Oh well, I agree with RCprince, you are much smarter than that, but for some reason you choose to turn that of when trying to support some of your views.

[Bill-SOCAL]

I know this will be labeled as Lefty Libberul nonsense, but at least read it first before saying so.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/bob-ce..._b_190342.html

Then read this, an article about yet another lefty nut job who thinks torture is Un-American... Oh wait, check that, an Ex-CIA guy:

http://www.mcclatchydc.com/227/story/66895.html

[RMZDADDY]

I don't recall hearing of the religious right in this country calling for the execution of those who do not share their views or faith.

I am, however, aware that Christianity was for centuries spread by the sword, at the cost of the lives of many. That certainly qualified as extremism in my opinion.

I find it odd that, from what I understand, (correct me if I'm wrong) neither the Christian or the Muslim faith teach this kind of intolerance toward others.

So how do we deal with this problem today? How do you identify and root out the segment of their society, however small or large, that wants us dead, that almost certainly will attack our civilian population again? How do we make sure that the anger in our western society is directed only at those who mean us harm, not at the many innocent people who happen to live in the Mideast?

I sure don't have an answer to such difficult questions.

[Bill-SOCAL]

So how do we deal with this problem today? How do you identify and root out the segment of their society, however small or large, that wants us dead, that almost certainly will attack our civilian population again?

Bomb them back to the stone age of course. Sure, you might kill a few hundred thousand "innocents", that is if you really believe there are any innocents. Throw in some good old American torture too while you are at it. Because only by showing the world that we too are as hypocritical as they are and as violent and hold human life in disregard can we protect ourselves and preserve the American Way!!



One thing I keep reading is that a prime motivator in the Mideast for their dislike of the US is our insistence on meddling in their affairs. We feel the need to do this because of our dependence on their oil reserves. They literally have us over a barrel so to speak.

I am one American who feels that trying to understand the motivations of others and what can be done to ameliorate a situation without military action is in fact a sign of strength and not one of weakness.

[Dr. Jet]

The entire Muslim population of the world is bent on the destruction of the US?? Really??

This is exactly what I am talking about when I say you jump to the absurd.

When did I ever say "THE ENTIRE MUSLIM POPULATION"?

[Dr. Jet]

Dr.Jet I know you are FAR more intelligent than you project yourself to be in these paragraphs... far more. First off Britain imposed on Palestine the European Jews...

Better go back an read history. There never has been a country of Palestine with recognized boundaries.

This is a good synopsis of the geographic history of the Middle East:
http://www.masada2000.org/historical.html

[RMZDADDY]

I am one American who feels that trying to understand the motivations of others and what can be done to ameliorate a situation without military action is in fact a sign of strength and not one of weakness.

I agree with you on this, but, how exactly do you sit down and talk with the extremists or terrorists?

Do they have a list of demands that must be met before they will stop killing?

It would seem that some would have us pull all of our troops out, let the Israelis be wiped out, then maybe they'll talk to us and let us know what we should do next.

I do wish we could end our dependency on foreign oil, without the money from the sale of it, they would be too busy dealing with their own problems to worry about killing us meddling evil westerners!

[Bill-SOCAL]

This is exactly what I am talking about when I say you jump to the absurd.

When did I ever say "THE ENTIRE MUSLIM POPULATION"?

I'm sorry, but terms like "these people" and "they are taught" fail to make a disticntion. So exactly who and how many are "they" and "these"? By your second comment I assume that you no longer feel that all inclusive "these people" applies. So who are you talking about ??

[Dr. Jet]

So who are you talking about ??

The radical Muslum fundamentalists, the Islamo-Fascists, the Jihadists. The ones that want to kill you. The ones that blow up innocent women and children. The ones who think flying airliners full of people into buildings is doing the will of allah. The cockroaches that cut people's heads off with rusty knives because their victims are "Infidels" and are worth less than dogs or monkeys in their eyes. The ones that hang tortured American bodies from a bridge and think it is a good thing. You know; the bad guys.

[Dr. Jet]

I'm sorry, but terms like "these people" and "they are taught" fail to make a disticntion.

You can't really be that dense. You're just saying that to push my buttons, aren't you?

[RMZDADDY]

You can't really be that dense. You're just saying that to push my buttons, aren't you?

Maybe it's just me, but I thought it was pretty clear who this discussion in general was referring to.

Not being totally specific in every statement seems to be an invitation to interpret or "fill in the blank".

[EPower]

I agree with you on this, but, how exactly do you sit down and talk with the extremists or terrorists?

Do they have a list of demands that must be met before they will stop killing?

It would seem that some would have us pull all of our troops out, let the Israelis be wiped out, then maybe they'll talk to us and let us know what we should do next.

I do wish we could end our dependency on foreign oil, without the money from the sale of it, they would be too busy dealing with their own problems to worry about killing us meddling evil westerners!

The only reason why bush went into Iraq was for the oil sorry weapons of mass destruction what a joke, that's the only reason why your troops are still there now

[Darin Jordan]

The only reason why bush went into Iraq was for the oil sorry weapons of mass destruction what a joke, that's the only reason why your troops are still there now

If that's really the case, then I guess we missed a little bit then and were TRUELY misguided... We should have invaded Canada and Mexico instead...

Total Imports of Petroleum (Top 15 Countries)
(Thousand Barrels per Day)
Country Feb-09 Jan-09 YTD 2009 Feb-08 YTD 2008

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

CANADA 2,512 2,544 2,529 2,464 2,527
MEXICO 1,364 1,430 1,399 1,327 1,317
SAUDI ARABIA 1,147 1,362 1,260 1,627 1,563
VENEZUELA 1,139 1,353 1,252 1,131 1,214
ANGOLA 671 543 604 350 468
IRAQ 519 568 545 780 658
NIGERIA 496 509 503 1,025 1,110
RUSSIA 478 516 498 451 421
BRAZIL 381 450 417 172 200
ALGERIA 369 720 553 384 514
VIRGIN ISLANDS 333 367 350 351 366
UNITED KINGDOM 260 147 201 155 185
KUWAIT 251 242 246 266 252
ECUADOR 243 278 261 186 224
COLOMBIA 241 269 256 240 218

[AndyKunz]

Mexico and Canada are invading US, Darin!

Andy

[Steven Vaccaro]

Ok, so you guys say that water boarding is torture and bad for our image as a country. You state that there are "other" ways? But fail to mention what the "other" ways are. Now our President last night said the same thing in his speech, "there are other ways". But he also fails to mention the "other" ways. I'm really intrigued at this point. How will we intergate future prisoners?

[Darin Jordan]

I'm really intrigued at this point. How will we intergate future prisoners?

Dude... it's simple... you give them flowers and ask them nicely...

[Steven Vaccaro]

Dude... it's simple... you give them flowers and ask them nicely...

Now, now, be nice. lol

But flowers do wonders when I give them to my wife.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Dude... it's simple... you give them flowers and ask them nicely...

Not to totally change the subject(but I am ) your new avatar is creeping me out. I feel like you are staring at me.

[Bill-SOCAL]

I am amazed at the simplicity of the analysis here. So the choices are either torture or hugs and kisses?? OK.

I guess that it matters not one little bit that the only people still supporting torture are those who were part and parcel in authorizing it or the moron media pundits like Hannity, who so far has refused to follow through on his offer to be waterboarded for charity.

None of the people involved in interrogating prisoners or terrorist suspects says it works, but hey, what do they know. Rush says it does and that is all that needs to be said.