Watch Christopher Hitchens Get Waterboarded (VANITY FAIR)

[RMZDADDY]

Your sort of rebuttals are not welcome, Nothing you've said was of any value to this discussion. We try to stay away from ad hominem attacks, one or two may slip in, but we try. This is your first comment and it's an egregious one at that. Stick to the boat section, obvious this is not your type of discussions. Come back with tact and facts. You'd be more than welcome to associate with the adults.

I have to agree with the RCprince too, well put!

[EPower]

Just FYI, it is spelled "you". And for Darin, the word is ridiculous, not "rediculous". The first might be a typo, but the second is a consistent misspelling.

Sorry about the spelling, as far as darin you only need to take a look at some of the threads started by him to see on witch side of the fence he sits

[domwilson]

I have to agree with the RCprince too, well put!

I agree. This is beer conversation. We don't want or need to turn this into bar fighting.
It seems that everyone here has valid opinions and are just expressing them. No harm in that. I have learned alot from both sides. Just food for thought as far as I'm concerned.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Sorry about the spelling, as far as darin you only need to take a look at some of the threads started by him to see on witch side of the fence he sits

Well, not to be snarky, but you did call him a moron. So allow me to point out that you mean "which" not "witch". One indicates a choice among many while the other is a mythical figure in fairy tales.

Sorry, that's the price you pay when labeling people morons, you are held to a higher standard.

I know. It makes me sound petty, and I guess it is. Oh well.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Bill-Socal is from Southern Calif which is right there with the idiots in San Fran!

You need both a geography lesson and some research into state and local politics.

First, I am over 435 miles south of San Francisco. Being from California according to your profile, I am surprised you got that badly confused. By the way, that is about the distance from Washington, D.C. to Boston MA. I sincerely doubt that Steven would like being confused with somebody from DC.

Secondly, Orange County, where I live, is as conservative as SF is liberal.

But then again, any idiot would know that. But maybe not. And so I do not get slammed, this is in response to being likened to idiots in SF.

[EPower]

Well, not to be snarky, but you did call him a moron. So allow me to point out that you mean "which" not "witch". One indicates a choice among many while the other is a mythical figure in fairy tales.

Sorry, that's the price you pay when labeling people morons, you are held to a higher standard.

I know. It makes me sound petty, and I guess it is. Oh well.

No problem

[Steven Vaccaro]

yuo are a MORON

Lets keep on Topic. Name calling doesn't add to the topic or conversation.

[Eodman]

Just my 2 cents here .... just a few years ago say 35 or so I remember when charlie was tied by the feet & flown around from the underside of a USMC chopper along the top of the trees!
Every once in awhile the chopper would dip!

Oh sorry that didn't happen! Oh & if it did I truly don't care after all Charlie was trying to kill me!

[RMZDADDY]

That's part of the problem when dealing with suspected terrorists. Do they deserve the same treatment as POW's? Although I don't agree with torturing them, I don't believe treating them with kindness and respect will change their minds about whether we all deserve to die.
My family comes from Germany and the US. My grandfather and his three brothers fought for the german army in WWII. My grandfather died somewhere in Russia and was never found. The others were captured. The only one who survived was transferred to a US POW camp. He credits his survival to the kind and decent treatment he received from his captors. To this day, he has nothing but kind words and respect for his captors and the country where he was held.
I don't think this kind of treatment will change the mind of any terrorists, but decent treatment of captives isn't always a bad thing.

[RCprince]

Just my 2 cents here .... just a few years ago say 35 or so I remember when charlie was tied by the feet & flown around from the underside of a USMC chopper along the top of the trees!
Every once in awhile the chopper would dip!

Oh sorry that didn't happen! Oh & if it did I truly don't care after all Charlie was trying to kill me!

Who sent you in charlie country? Charlie didn't come to your front door.

[Eodman]

Uncle Sam and at the time at the request of the South Vietnamese government!

[Steven Vaccaro]

He lasted less than 20 seconds knowing that it could stop at any time. Imagine the stress a real captive is undergoing......

[Bill-SOCAL]

He lasted less than 20 seconds knowing that it could stop at any time. Imagine the stress a real captive is undergoing......

I hope Sean Hannity takes Keith Olberman up on his offer. Olberman has offered to donate $1,000 per second that Hannity endures being waterboarded. This is after Hannity offered to do it for charity. No word yet if Sean is going to take up the offer or not.

Hitchens can be a pompous a$$ at times, but I give him high marks for doing this to see what it really is like. There have been a few others. None agree with Hannity and O'Reilly that it is not torture.

Over and over again these "enhanced interrogation tactics" have been shown to yield unreliable information.

One classic example that happened in Arizona some years ago involved a multiple murder in west Phoenix at a Thai temple. The local Sheriff (Big Bad Joe) somehow locked in on a guy from Tucson. Despite having his image on video at this work place and initial protestations of innocence, they arrested the guy. They held him for several days in a hotel in Tucson. Deprived him a sleep, food, etc. And subjected him to relentless interrogation. Guess what? He confessed. So did three others they arrested with him.

It took a few months of this poor slob sitting in jail before they tracked down the real killer. A 17 year old honor student who thought the temple was like in Indiana Jones.

Oops. Sorry. Their defense was that he confessed!! They ignored the video at his work place and he finally broke under the pressure of being sleep deprived. I cannot imagine what people will confess to when being water boarded.

SOme info:

http://garylstuart.com/220FalseConfe...TucsonFour.htm

http://www.ajarnforum.net/vb/interna...e-murders.html

http://www.azcentral.com/12news/news...112008-CR.html

[Steven Vaccaro]

Bill I agree that it is torture.

I dont believe that we should be torturing our own citizens. But what is your suggestion for getting information from a high raking captive? Do you deny the fact that this type of interrogation has stopped acts on US soil? If so, what is the value you place on one US citizen? Unfortunately for the USA there is a group of people that hate us no matter what we do. Shaking their hand isnt going to make it better.

[domwilson]

Put them in a room with my ex for an hour. After all the moaning, nagging and head games, they'll confess to anything...

[Eodman]

Hey I thought you were on vacation ..... I'm telling the missus!

[Steven Vaccaro]

Hey I thought you were on vacation ..... I'm telling the missus!

I dont leave until 4pm or so. Until then I get to surf and bother Bill.

[Eodman]

OK Surf on

[Jeff Wohlt]

You all just convince my Dad that fought the last of WWII and Korea what he thinks of Japanese and Korens or Iranians for that matter. Do you think this is all new to the 2st century...hardly. He lost good friends and others missing limbs, etc. Do they cry about give me, give me , give me and I need a farkin parade everytime someone comes home. These true heros are almost forgotten...and most dead anyway. Sit down and talk to a real veteran some day.

I think you all make your assumptions based on never knowing what it was like and neither do I. Today may be different as we all have these BS laws in place saying.... If we go to war with you you can't do this and that. War is war boys.

Ask the 3000 people that died in 911 and see if they give s h-t how we get info from idiots that want to kill us anyway. Waterboarding or electrical, bugs....whatever...makes me no difference. Our men expect the same if shot down and taken prisoner...ask any nam vet that sat in the jungle being tortured how they feel?

Yes, we have become a bunch of pu$$ies.. You can diplomat all you want then get the business done.

Where the hell is your pride boys? Wanna be the logical country that makes sure the world is safe or do you just take it for granted...I tend to think you take it for granted in your comfy arm chair as Bill has stated before.

You either stand for a couple things (one including freedom) or you don't.

Is this old world thinking now? Did only work then and won't work anymore...well you see where our country is heading and you tell me. Yes we are so much better off....maybe not.

[Steven Vaccaro]

You all just convince my Dad that fought the last of WWII and Korea what he thinks of Japanese and Korens or Iranians for that matter. Do you think this is all new to the 2st century...hardly. He lost good friends and others missing limbs, etc. Do they cry about give me, give me , give me and I need a farkin parade everytime someone comes home. These true heros are almost forgotten...and most dead anyway. Sit down and talk to a real veteran some day.

I think you all make your assumptions based on never knowing what it was like and neither do I. Today may be different as we all have these BS laws in place saying.... If we go to war with you you can't do this and that. War is war boys.

Ask the 3000 people that died in 911 and see if they give s h-t how we get info from idiots that want to kill us anyway. Waterboarding or electrical, bugs....whatever...makes me no difference. Our men expect the same if shot down and taken prisoner...ask any nam vet that sat in the jungle being tortured how they feel?

Yes, we have become a bunch of pu$$ies.. You can diplomat all you want then get the business done.

Where the hell is your pride boys? Wanna be the logical country that makes sure the world is safe or do you just take it for granted...I tend to think you take it for granted in your comfy arm chair as Bill has stated before.

You either stand for a couple things (one including freedom) or you don't.

Is this old world thinking now? Did only work then and won't work anymore...well you see where our country is heading and you tell me. Yes we are so much better off....maybe not.

Be careful Jeff, you are starting to sound like one of those Right Wing, Gun Carrying, Christians that can't see the bigger picture!

[Eodman]

Here here buy Jeff a beer hell buy him a freakin KEG!

If you can't get behind our troops .... please stand in front of them!

[Dr. Jet]

If you can't get behind our troops .... please stand in front of them!

Now that's the quote of the day!

[Darin Jordan]

Time to lighten up...

http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/in...138&title=take

[Bill-SOCAL]

Bill I agree that it is torture.

I dont believe that we should be torturing our own citizens. But what is your suggestion for getting information from a high raking captive? Do you deny the fact that this type of interrogation has stopped acts on US soil? If so, what is the value you place on one US citizen? Unfortunately for the USA there is a group of people that hate us no matter what we do. Shaking their hand isnt going to make it better.

All I can go on is that we are the people who allegedly are the moral standard bearers for the world. As such it is hard to justify the torture of anyone. Citizenship makes no difference. Torture is torture.

Add to that the fact that the US has been a leader in opposing torture anywhere in the world and has never drawn a distinction about who is being tortured as being the defining element, and it gets even more difficult to understand how we as a country can condone it.

As far as the efficacy of it, there are numerous professionals who say that it does not work very well. There are other effective interrogations techniques that do not involve torture. This concept that if you are not for torture then you want to kiss the bad guys and give them a hug is stupid. Sorry.

I finally heard something on Fox News that I agree with. Shepherd Smith lost it in an interview and blurted out: "We're America. We don't F#&*ing torture". Does it really need to be more complicated than that??

Some reading:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id...tionid=3510203

http://www.democrats.com/maddow-chen...orture-results

One more, written by a guy who actually has participated in this practice:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/23/op...er=rss&emc=rss

[RCprince]

Here here buy Jeff a beer hell buy him a freakin KEG!

If you can't get behind our troops .... please stand in front of them!

Don't worry, Posse Comitatus is coming to a neighborhood near you... I'd love for you to repeat those words then.


With that said, most people whom the right interpret as being against the troops, are not! They are against the policies these troops are carrying out, which are 90 percent corporately influenced.

[RCprince]

I finally heard something on Fox News that I agree with. Shepherd Smith lost it in an interview and blurted out: "We're America. We don't F#&*ing torture". Does it really need to be more complicated than that??

He'll be reprimanded by O'Reilly and Hannity!

[Flying Scotsman]

From an idiot another point of view

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iKbWdgW6sD8

Douggie

[bwells]

first, I want to apologize to rcprintz and socal bill for my previous comments. I was reading this post and seeing Darin get hammered or tag teamed from coast to coast for expressing an opinion. My comments were out of line.
second, waterboarding and all other forms of torture seem bad to me. Sometimes the end justifies the means but not to often ( telling Grandma you loved the bunny slippers she knitted you. It's still a lie). It seems like a case to case examination would apply. Darin nor I make policy and everyone has their own beliefs and convictions and nothing will change that. You believe what you want and I will not try to convince you differently.
third, I doubt waterboarding was the result of 1 or 2 rogue interrogators but a policy passed down from the administration and pelosi said congress was briefed on interrogation procedures including waterboarding by the FBI but said she didn't think that was implemented yet. What about sodium penothol or lie detectors, etc. Not a clue whats available as I don't do this for a living. To find the responsible party will be difficult and costly and never be achieved. It's not a pyramid where you get one top guy but more of an hour glass where there are many involved at the top.
fourth, once again my apologe to everyone I offended.
Brian



P.S What does SAW stand for?

[AndyKunz]

Straight A Way. When they run the boats through a set of timing lights, like a drag race but with a running start, one boat at a time. It lets you see just how fast it can really go.

Andy

[Jeff Wohlt]

Better get me the keg. I do stand behind our troops and all past troops that fought for our freedom. You should too if you are true americans. Right or wrong we (you) vote our elected people in.Not all are perfect but we live and learn. I doubt Obama will win the next one.

I know what the rest of the world thinks about us and it is sad.