Andy & Paddy

[egneg]

I am now the proud owner of a H&M excess II. I know you 2 have extensive experience with this hull and am in need of setup advice. It came with rudder, strut. and a 0.062 wire drive. Is the wire drive ok? I was thinking a feigao 6xl on 4s1p and a V940/3 prop. At what depth should the strut be set? Any help would be appreciated.

[Flying Scotsman]

I am now the proud owner of a H&M excess II. I know you 2 have extensive experience with this hull and am in need of setup advice. It came with rudder, strut. and a 0.062 wire drive. Is the wire drive ok? I was thinking a feigao 6xl on 4s1p and a V940/3 prop. At what depth should the strut be set? Any help would be appreciated.

Christ no, those Lads will screw your setup on any giiven day


Douggie

[Xzessperated]

I am now the proud owner of a H&M excess II. I know you 2 have extensive experience with this hull and am in need of setup advice. It came with rudder, strut. and a 0.062 wire drive. Is the wire drive ok? I was thinking a feigao 6xl on 4s1p and a V940/3 prop. At what depth should the strut be set? Any help would be appreciated.

Chuck,
Congratulations.
Andy has used wire drives but not on his Xzess 2. He would be able to give you his opinion if we can ever get him back on OSE again. He is in tears at the news of Douggie leaving (me too).

Here are some setups I used with a 6xl.

4s PolyQuest LiPo, Feigao 6xl, Octura X640 = 96 kph
4s PolyQuest LiPo, Feigao 6xl, Octura X642 = 104 kph

The strut depth is at 20mm

With the 4s PolyQuest LiPo, Feigao 6xl, Octura X642 = 104 kph setup I had a lot of 140 amps spikes on the Eagle Tree graph so make sure you put a good esc in the boat.

I never had much luck getting V series props to work. Both my Xzess 2 hulls throw the tail out of the water (something I called Shakiras a$$) and thus they never reach their full speed potential on V series props. Andy is working some magic on a prop for me to try soon.

Keep us posted on how it goes.

Douggie,
I am

[Simon.O.]

I am keen to see if the .062 wire is up to the task.
I really hope it is so that Chuck's boat is good to go, and for me as I have spec'd a 062 wire into the 4S rigger that is one the bench at the moment.
I can go for a bigger wire or at worst a flex cable if needed, but I really do not want to.

[egneg]

I am keen to see if the .062 wire is up to the task.
I really hope it is so that Chuck's boat is good to go, and for me as I have spec'd a 062 wire into the 4S rigger that is one the bench at the moment.
I can go for a bigger wire or at worst a flex cable if needed, but I really do not want to.

Apparently the wire drive worked but I have no way of finding out what setup was in the boat. Although it does have a 3/16 prop shaft the motor mount was taken out. It does have water cooling installed and the hardware/servo is well setup.

Paddy - thanks for the strut measurement. The 6xl is a fairly hot setup would a 7xl keep the amps down?

[Xzessperated]

Apparently the wire drive worked but I have no way of finding out what setup was in the boat. Although it does have a 3/16 prop shaft the motor mount was taken out. It does have water cooling installed and the hardware/servo is well setup.

Paddy - thanks for the strut measurement. The 6xl is a fairly hot setup would a 7xl keep the amps down?

The 7xl would be a better motor for what you want I think Chuck. Andy ran a 7xl (Simon has it now) in his old Xzess 2 (I have that now) and he said he could run 65mph for 2 minutes and everything was ok. He said he gave it hell and it took it on the chin. There is a video of his Xzess on You Tube running the 7xl. I will find it if you want.

[egneg]

Thanks Paddy but I found the video from when he had it posted in the swap shop. It looked great and turned on a dime.

Back then I asked Andy about esc's for this hull and he suggested a etti 150.

[Xzessperated]

Thanks Paddy but I found the video from when he had it posted in the swap shop. It looked great and turned on a dime.

This is why the thread is titled to you guys.

You will be very happy with this little boat Chuck. I am interested in how the wire drive works for you.

[egneg]

As this is my first experience with a wire drive I have a question about the gap between the drive dog and strut (if any)? Also would a teflon washer be a good idea? I know that a cable needs the gap but there should not be any compression with wire drive.

[andym]

The compression on the wire is minimal and is caused by the wobble in the wire not compression as such. My Whiplash sport 20 uses a wire drive and I have a .5mm gap no washer and plenty of grease. It runs great and dry. That v940/3 will be to big for a 6xl and will push your packs and that motor way to hard , go for the 7xl and have fun. I used a CC 240 esc in mine and loved it. I now use the CC 240 in all my 4s boats. You will find that a little bit of tip cup will get rid of some of the lift and help stop the hop. 18mm - 20mm seems to be the go with the strut depth and a small Taipan turn fin was the best I tried and I tried alot.
Cheers

[egneg]

I need help! I am trying to figure out the best layout to get things to fit. I plan to use an Aveox 36/30/1.5 motor, Turnigy plush 100 amp esc, 2 x 2s1p lipos. The best I could come up with to get things to fit (using the existing wire drive) was motor about mid section in the tub, esc in front about even with the rear wing, and lipos on top of the esc going into the nose. The CG is about even with the most rear top section of the sponsons. I may get the motor back a bit more if I cut the existing tube for the water outlet and relocate it but I won't gain much and keep the wire straight. If either of you have some pics of your lay out of this boat I would be forever grateful.

Chuck

[Xzessperated]

I need help! I am trying to figure out the best layout to get things to fit. I plan to use an Aveox 36/30/1.5 motor, Turnigy plush 100 amp esc, 2 x 2s1p lipos. The best I could come up with to get things to fit (using the existing wire drive) was motor about mid section in the tub, esc in front about even with the rear wing, and lipos on top of the esc going into the nose. The CG is about even with the most rear top section of the sponsons. I may get the motor back a bit more if I cut the existing tube for the water outlet and relocate it but I won't gain much and keep the wire straight. If either of you have some pics of your lay out of this boat I would be forever grateful.

Chuck

Chuck,
I will edit some pictures of Andy's old Xzess 2 in here later today. My Xzess 2 had a Barracuda 120 have a thermal melt down in it last weekend and so all the inside is gutted while I repair the damage and clean the mess up.

Just going through my Flickr pics and found this one. Battery goes almost all the way up front and the esc sits on top of that.



The picture below shows that the CF boom is cut to let the battery go almost all the way up to the front. You can see where the motor sits and in the rear the receiver is velcro'd to the rudder servo. At the transom you can see some sponge I use to soak any water up that might get in.


Here is one of Andy's old boat. Again the rudder servo and receiver are towards the transom

[andym]

Chuck I used to mount the esc upside down off the tub cross brace, get rid of the rear boom carrier from the tub and you have plenty of room for adjustment with 4s 1p so it should be the same with 2s 2p. How about some pics Chuck,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

[egneg]

How about some pics Chuck,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Ok - here they are. I still have to change connectors/shorten some wires and of course nothing is fastened down yet. I hope this will give you some idea of what I am working with. If I go with this I will need to extend the esc to rx lead.

[Xzessperated]

Ok - here they are. I still have to change connectors/shorten some wires and of course nothing is fastened down yet. I hope this will give you some idea of what I am working with. If I go with this I will need to extend the esc to rx lead.

That is a clean looking hull Chuck. It looks new. I think we told you to set the strut at 20mm and level with your table top (best done while the wife is washing the Volvo). Put a good turn fin on this and you will have a fast and stable little hull.
This hull will blow over at high speed and I think the way Andy dealt with that problem is better than the way I did as he ended up with a lighter hull.

[egneg]

Paddy as of right now I have it set at 18mm as this was the minimum that Andy suggested. I will go down a if bit it runs a wet.

[Xzessperated]

Paddy as of right now I have it set at 18mm as this was the minimum that Andy suggested. I will go down a if bit it runs a wet.

Geeeez. He gives you his secret tips and not me. I will rub a little snake oil on my strut and slide it up a bit and see what happens.

[andym]

Chuck that esc looks bigger than the CC 240 I ran in mine. Is the rear sponson boom still across the tub? These hulls do blow over if the weight is not right and those packs should get as far forward as possible. If your weight is not right you will find that you will have to run the strut as deep as 1" to stop the blow overs and this makes the sponsons run wet. I tried to aim to have the CoB as close as poss to the rear of the ride pads, not 2" back as the usual hydro formula would suggest. With the CoB approx 5-10mm behind ride pad I could run 18mm strut well into the 60mph range with only the occasional lift and it was controlable.

[Simon.O.]

, not 2" back as the usual hydro formula would suggest. With the CoB approx 5-10mm behind ride pad .

NOT a shot at Andy.

This is a very contentious issue with me at the moment.
A common "rule" that is trotted out is 1-2" behind the sponson for hydros and riggers.
1"on a 18 "rigger is a lot different to 1"on a 32"rigger.
I have read that 10-14% of the afterplane is a good start area too. This make a little more sense than a fixed dimension.
FFS these hulls are quite different when you take into account Shovel nose, Pickle fork, Ventilated just for Hydros then come the Riggers with bare booms or even winglets like the X2.

One formula for all ??? Like F#$@ !!
A start point for all. YES !!

It is easy to set the CoB just aft of the sponson and start your trimming from there.

As an example.
Paddy has his CoB 24% aft of the sponson on the X3
Slim has his over 20% on the same hull.
Neither have blown over yet Paddy at least has gone over 110 Km/h


Set your AoA of your sponsons to the suggested point.
I am not familiar with that hull............yet.
Just listen to Andy or Paddy for strut depth measurements and this will give you an AoA that is measurable.

Run it and let us know.

If you are feeling brave then move the CoB aft untill you blow it over.
This CoB measuremenrt must be recorded and should be published, here with video.
VIDEO IS A MUST if you choose to go this way.

I will help where I can with tech knowledge.
Andy and Paddy have first hand knowledge of this hull so will provide a LOT of good information that will help you get this boat screaming.

[Xzessperated]

Good comments Simon as this boat WILL blow over if you put the weight too far back. To stop mine blowing over I stole 3 of my sons fishing sinkers and they are right up in the nose.
Andy solved the problem a better way IMO.
See the pictures below and you will notice he used pieces of soft drink bottle on the winglets. When he told me about it and sent me the pics I was thinking this is some of Andy's but now I own the boat I can see it works very well and his old boat is quite a lot lighter than mine.

[andym]

Simon that is the formula I was refering to. The xs2 does not run well at speed to that formula. Because of the wings and the obvious lift they generate you will find that at 60mph you NEED the CoB at or close to the back of the ride pad,

[egneg]

First off thanks for the COB advice I will see about shifting things around to move it forward. Second I looked at the carbon rod going through the tub and it is not supported where the wings meet the tub. Is it glassed in somehow, supported by wood then glassed, or are the wings filled with 2 part foam for support? I don't want to cut it out until I have a plan or better understanding of how it is supported at this point.

[Xzessperated]

First off thanks for the COB advice I will see about shifting things around to move it forward. Second I looked at the carbon rod going through the tub and it is not supported where the wings meet the tub. Is it glassed in somehow, supported by wood then glassed, or are the wings filled with 2 part foam for support? I don't want to cut it out until I have a plan or better understanding of how it is supported at this point.

Chuck the pictures below might help.







This is Andy's old boat. We both did similar things except I used thicker wood than Andy. You must drill the wood, remove the boom so you can let the boom slide through the drill holes and when you have the boom in place glue the wood to the hull. After it has dried for some time cut the boom and you open up the hole for the battery to slide almost all the way to the nose.
I hope that helps.

[egneg]

Thanks Paddy that answers a lot of questions. Hopefully I can free up the carbon rod for this method - if not I may have to resort to drilling the hole and splitting the wood for a 2 part installation.

[Xzessperated]

Thanks Paddy that answers a lot of questions. Hopefully I can free up the carbon rod for this method - if not I may have to resort to drilling the hole and splitting the wood for a 2 part installation.

That would work Chuck. Don't spare the glue and it will last forever.

[egneg]

This is what I came up with. The aluminum was to thick to bend and a get good fit. So I looked through my lumber yard from when I built 1/12 scale doll houses and furniture quite a few years ago and found just what I needed. The pieces are glued with CA and ready to be epoxied into place.

[Xzessperated]

This is what I came up with. The aluminum was to thick to bend and a get good fit. So I looked through my lumber yard from when I built 1/12 scale doll houses and furniture quite a few years ago and found just what I needed. The pieces are glued with CA and ready to be epoxied into place.

That looks better than both of ours Chuck. Well done. An ample amount of epoxy and you will be able to open her up.

[andym]

Even a little bit of glass ribbon just to make sure it is strong, and yes a cleaner job than mine. In my defence I was learning the art of model building at the time and now it would be a muck cleaner job.
When they are glassed in it will look like it came from the factory.
Excellent work Chuck

[Flying Scotsman]

A great thread. I have to build one and show you a**holes how it is done....using pieces of soft drink bottles on the winglets, give me a break! Now, a Scotsman would use, used condoms...no need for velcro...open the used condom and apply. A simple solution you Colonial twits

Paddy, I do like the new avatar, Andy's is land locked as is the egg man

Douggie the ?

[egneg]

Douggie you are just jealous because you only get to run boats once a year and that's if summer falls on a weekend! So you have 363 days a year for building boats.

BTW there is this wee pond ten minutes east of my house that never freezes!!!