Ammo

[Darin Jordan]

You might want to send this to all your hunting buddies family & friends.

Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009

It has already started.... Ammunition Accountability Legislation Remember how Obama said that he wasn't going to take your guns? Well, it seems that his allies in the anti-gun world have no problem with taking your ammo! The bill 20 that is being pushed in 18 states (including Illinois and Indiana ) requires all ammunition to be encoded by the manufacture a data base of all ammunition sales. So they will know how much you buy and what calibers. Nobody can sell any ammunition after June 30, 2009 unless the ammunition is coded. Any privately held uncoded ammunition must be destroyed by July 1, 2011. (Including hand loaded ammo..) They will also charge a .05 cent tax on every round so every box of ammo you buy will go up at least $2.50 or more! If they can deprive you of ammo they do not need to take your gun! This legislation is currently pending in 18 states: Alabama , Arizona , California , Connecticut , Hawaii , Illinois , Indiana , Kentucky , Maryland , Mississippi , Missouri , New Jersey , New York , Pennsylvania , Rhode Island , South Carolina , Tennessee , and Washington .. Send to your friends in these states AND fight to dissolve this BILL!! To find more about the anti-gun group that is sponsoring this legislation and the specific legislation for each state, go to:

http://ammunitionaccountability.org/Legislation.htm



http://www.snopes.com/politics/guns/ammunition.asp

[Dr. Jet]

Time to invest in precious metals: Brass and lead!

Note to ammo buyers: Do not use checks or credit cards for your investments. Cash is King. Pardon me while I go out and "update my portfolio".

[Ub Hauled]

I don't know the small details of this bill, so I am going to say this from what I heard:
I think it's great that they make all this ammo traceable, it'll help to find murderers and low life like these... the extra 5 cents per bullet is a way to help the government to get outta the hole that was dug in the last 8 years, is it fair? No, but unfortunately we are the ones that have to bail the country out of it's status quo, the head "honchos" need to get these plans underway and we have to dance according to the music.
About the deadline to use your uncoded ammo... let's face it, if you cannot get rid of a couple of boxes in two years, what kinda gun lover are you anyway?!
Whether we like it or no there are morons out there that don't know or misuse guns and that's where the problem lays... if all of us were trained and responsible users, none of this would be necessary.

[Flying Scotsman]

I don't know the small details of this bill, so I am going to say this from what I heard:
I think it's great that they make all this ammo traceable, it'll help to find murderers and low life like these... the extra 5 cents per bullet is a way to help the government to get outta the hole that was dug in the last 8 years, is it fair? No, but unfortunately we are the ones that have to bail the country out of it's status quo, the head "honchos" need to get these plans underway and we have to dance according to the music.
About the deadline to use your uncoded ammo... let's face it, if you cannot get rid of a couple of boxes in two years, what kinda gun lover are you anyway?!
Whether we like it or no there are morons out there that don't know or misuse guns and that's where the problem lays... if all of us were trained and responsible users, none of this would be necessary.

This response makes total sense to me.

Douggie

[Dr. Jet]

This response makes total sense to me.

Douggie

You are assuming the "Bad Guys" will use the coded ammo.

Registering guns certianly got them out of the hands of the bad guys, didn't it?



I suppose this will make all my reloading gear much more valuable in the future.

[Rex R]

well since it is simply not feasible to encode(micro or otherwise) the shear volume of ammo used per day... then I would guess that ammo will for the most part will simply disapear. oh and you can just forget about buying ammo for your scattergun.

[Ub Hauled]

You are assuming the "Bad Guys" will use the coded ammo.

after 2011 yes they will... since it will be the only ammo that is for sale, they would have to either use the "marked" ammo or go through each round and "clean" it...
the "good guys" are always one step behind the "bad" guys and we can only make it harder for the "perps"... the world will never be w/o bad elements, at least not until our values change.

[egneg]

Can you say black market uncoded ammo? This will go underground for sure.

[Steven Vaccaro]

after 2011 yes they will... since it will be the only ammo that is for sale, they would have to either use the "marked" ammo or go through each round and "clean" it...
the "good guys" are always one step behind the "bad" guys and we can only make it harder for the "perps"... the world will never be w/o bad elements, at least not until our values change.

UB there are millions of shell casings out there. All of which can be reloaded by 10 year old. I used to do with my father watching me over my shoulder. Guess what, the old loaders are still around. Time to stock up on shell casings!

Values change from the top down, not the other way around, unfortunately the top is more corrupt than the bottom. So where's that leave us at the bottom?

[Ub Hauled]

Steven, I understand that there are loaders and that people use them and that's why I stated we can only make it more difficult for them... if they really want the untraceable ammo, they will find a way.
In regards of the values... they start at home, regardless if you are on top or bottom of the "totem", if you are raised with weak/wrong values at home, NOTHING will change you down the line... yes the so called "top" is corrupt, that does not mean that you or I have to be, does it?
Change starts at home, with our children.

[Steven Vaccaro]

As agree that family is a big part. But once a child grows to an adult and see's the rest of the world is corrupt, I believe a large percentage will join them. Or at least be inclined to. Whats that old saying "if he's doing it, why can't I". This is from my experience with my own family and seeing many others in the same "boat" as us. To make a long story short, The last few years has been hell for my parents. My brother is 13 years younger than I and brought up with all the same values as I. Once he turned around 19-20 all that changed. It didn't matter what my parents had taught him as a child. He became his own person and corrupted like the people that he decided to associate himself with.

[Ub Hauled]

sorry to hear that Steven,
he probably started associating with bad people at a young age where the "wow" factor
must have influenced him to the point where he is now.
I still believe that family is the biggest influence one can have, even though sometimes it does not seems so... just imagine if your parents were "bad seeds" and showed you the "dark side of the force" instead of what you took from them, now imagine the whole country and the the world being brought up like that... we would not have a fighting chance on this rock.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Don't get me wrong I see your point. But my point is that the top is so corrupt that more then ever I'm hearing people call in to talk shows and come into my store, saying things like, "Geitner didn't pay taxes, why should I". Its a problem we are facing as a nation.

[Flying Scotsman]

As agree that family is a big part. But once a child grows to an adult and see's the rest of the world is corrupt, I believe a large percentage will join them. Or at least be inclined to. Whats that old saying "if he's doing it, why can't I". This is from my experience with my own family and seeing many others in the same "boat" as us. To make a long story short, The last few years has been hell for my parents. My brother is 13 years younger than I and brought up with all the same values as I. Once he turned around 19-20 all that changed. It didn't matter what my parents had taught him as a child. He became his own person and corrupted like the people that he decided to associate himself with.

Steven, in families the values our parents either good or bad, teach kids what kids see..some may want to emulate their parents, others take a different course ...right or wrong..it becomes their ultimate decision

Douggie

[raptor347]

Another $25 for a day at the sporting clays range, wonderful. All my bench rest equipment is useless because they are chambered for custom rounds. I think I'll keep stocking up on reloading supplies. Cash is good.

As usual, the law abiding citizens get punished and the criminals get protected. Sounds like wall street, the banking system, the big three etc. Run everything into the ground and still get millions in bonuses. You don't see the anti-gun politicians giving up their personal CC permits.

The situation we have is what you get after years (and I'm not talking just 8) of no morals, no responsibility and no consequences.

[Ub Hauled]

The situation we have is what you get after years (and I'm not talking just 8) of no morals, no responsibility and no consequences.

I could not agree more with you...

How are criminals being protected though?
Let's not consider politicians for the topics' sake, they are hopeless anyway, it's part of the trade being shady...

[egneg]

Everything is so PC now days because of the liberals and bleeding harts. I have mentioned this before and I will mention it again ... it is time for the Grey Panthers! Abby Hoffman had the right idea back in the late 60's at the democratic convention (remember the Chicago seven). That is when our country came the closest to a modern day revolution and I think it is high time that we did it again. As we are the same generation just a bit older and hopefully wiser.

[Flying Scotsman]

Everything is so PC now days because of the liberals and bleeding harts. I have mentioned this before and I will mention it again ... it is time for the Grey Panthers! Abby Hoffman had the right idea back in the late 60's at the democratic convention (remember the Chicago seven). That is when our country came the closest to a modern day revolution and I think it is high time that we did it again. As we are the same generation just a bit older and hopefully wiser.

PC do not get me started as this will be a long night. The PC twits are now the idiots that they were perceived to be ??

Douggie

[Ub Hauled]

I don't think it's time to be PC, that ship has sailed...
it's time to break some eggs and make an omelet!
Get the word out that we will not put up with hidden agendas
nor any bullcrap that these selfish few single handedly mess up a nation
and life of MILLIONS of hard working people... that's what needs to happen...
time to take the rotten apples out of the basket.

[raptor347]

How are criminals being protected though?

Laws only effect those that abide by them and the small portion of criminals that get caught/tried/convicted. Don't worry, the violent ones will be out in 5-10 (3 with good behavior).

The real gun/defense issue comes down to two basic points of view:

1. Those who expect to be taken care of. Don't worry, the police will get there 10 minutes after they are contacted. Easy victims.

2. Those who can take care of themselves and repond to a threat. It still takes the police 10 minutes to get there once you contact them. Not so easy victims.

BTW. 10 minutes is a really long time for a rape victim, a member of my family can attest to that. Rapist was never caught, so much for laws. She's very good with a handgun now.

I would rather be in the second group and have that option remain open. The world isn't becoming more civilized. Violence is still common, and as the population density increases it only gets worse. We aren't alone, it's pretty standard among higher vertibrates (the old "too many rats in the cage" analogy).

If you ultimately set yourself up to be a victim, your chances of becoming one are much greater.

All this being said, I've never fired a shot in self defense and hope I never have to. My wife and I do shoot about 10k rounds a year at targets.

[detox]

Hopefully I have enough reloading supplies to last my lifetime and my son's lifetime?

5 shot group shot with factory 223 Remington 700 Varment Synthetic with factory shortened 20" barrel.

[Flying Scotsman]

Not bad but a bit high for the target value at how many feet?

Douggie

[detox]

It's all about the grouping and grouping only. Isn't 100 yards the standard?

[Ub Hauled]

(the old "too many rats in the cage" analogy).
If you ultimately set yourself up to be a victim, your chances of becoming one are much greater.
All this being said, I've never fired a shot in self defense and hope I never have to. My wife and I do shoot about 10k rounds a year at targets.

I truly understand your point, specially coming from a third world country and being victim of robbery myself.
The new law is not outcasting guns nor forbidding people to own guns... why does one need so much ammo? If it's really for self defense, then all one really needs at home is one clip (or six shots for revolvers) and that is not going to be a make or break the bank issue... if you wanna shoot 10k rounds a year then that's on you and does it even matter if they have your SS# on them (extrapolation)?! My point is, if one wants to defend him/herself then a basement full of boxes is not necessary.
Don't you think that maybe, just maybe, instead of having a gun at home we should have more cops or a different judiciary system, well, something to that order ? I also understand that it is something needed sooner then later... I am aware of all that... I still don't think that one needs to have pile of ammo boxes for so called, defense.

[Darin Jordan]

Guys... the 2nd ammendment was placed in the US Constitution for a reason... That reason is what is being attacked here... PUT it TOGETHER! Obama (the current face of the Left Wing of our country) will take the guns... meanwhile, he'll put into place his "Civilian Security Force", or whatever he's calling it....

If it sounds at all familiar, it should...

[AndyKunz]

You need to shoot to retain proficiency. That's why police are constantly at the range - they need to have practice. The more you practice, the more you are relaxed, and the more consistent your shooting.

The last thing you need if you're attacked is to panic. You need to know your weapon and be able to skillfully use it as second nature. Unless you have practiced, you WILL panic. Your shot will be off, and you'll be just as much a victim (maybe more) as if you were unarmed.

I could be playing banjo today as well as I did in college if it weren't that way.

Andy

[Ub Hauled]

According to this Ammunition Accountability Legislation, one can still keep and bear arms Darin (according to your post)... I guess I don't follow what the ruckus is all about...

[AndyKunz]

It's sad, but we need to defend ourselves FROM our government today. That's why we were supposed to have a militia and not a standing army.

Andy

[Ub Hauled]

Andy, aren't you being a little extreme here?
I have not the government invade my home with arms yet... although we don't have any privacy anymore these days, but that's a different ball of wax.

[AndyKunz]

According to this Ammunition Accountability Legislation, one can still carry arms Darin (according to your post)... I guess I don't follow what the ruckus is all about...

What good are arms if you can't put ammo into them? How can an armed rebellion be successful if the government has records of who has purchased stuff? Hitler did it.

BIG BROTHER is taking over.

Andy