Best album/Group of the 60's and 70's era

[detox]

Douggie,
The most well respected amp maker McIntosh uses tone controls on most every pre amp/ integrated amp they make. That should tell you something. Most all recordings need some type of equallization to sound perfect.

http://www.mcintoshlabs.com/



.........................

[Flying Scotsman]

[QUOTE=detox;78239]

BS... I have been down that expensive HI FI road. I have also taken that no tone control route, but my ears like the simple and much overlooked and more affordable Denon stuff.

Denon stuff is OK but not great. What you hear and what I hear are two different stories. Believe me most peoples audio systems have excessive tone control problems and can not listen to their system for more than 15 minutes without audio fatigue.

Douggie

[domwilson]

Gentlemen. I detect a Bose argument on the horizon. Audio is subjective. I own alot of equipment myself. And have been spending much time as of late repairing some. Tone controls are designed to compensate for listening room shortcomings, as well as personal preference. Unfortunately, with all the marketing hype, the change in FTC rules for amplifier ratings, bad recording engineering, and MP3's, most people don't really know what Hi-Fi is. As long as it has lot's of bass and too much treble they are content. I have speakers from ESS, Magnepan, Advent, Kenwood, Radio Shack, SRS Labs, Wharfedale, Boston Acoustics, etc. My favorites are a pair I designed and built (Transmission line MTM's)to my musical taste powered by an old pioneer SX-450 receiver. Bottom line is, what ever makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone else (hearing).

[egneg]

Notice any resemblance?

[Flying Scotsman]

Dom, you are on the button. The maggies are a great speaker, their bass voice was not great. I owned a pair.

Douggie

[egneg]

Gentlemen. I detect a Bose argument on the horizon. Audio is subjective. I own alot of equipment myself. And have been spending much time as of late repairing some. Tone controls are designed to compensate for listening room shortcomings, as well as personal preference. Unfortunately, with all the marketing hype, the change in FTC rules for amplifier ratings, bad recording engineering, and MP3's, most people don't really know what Hi-Fi is. As long as it has lot's of bass and too much treble they are content. I have speakers from ESS, Magnepan, Advent, Kenwood, Radio Shack, SRS Labs, Wharfedale, Boston Acoustics, etc. My favorites are a pair I designed and built (Transmission line MTM's)to my musical taste powered by an old pioneer SX-450 receiver. Bottom line is, what ever makes you happy and doesn't hurt anyone else (hearing).

Back in the 60's my parents had an RCA Victor stereo with a tube amp that was a huge piece of furnature. I wish it still was around as the sound was better than anything around now.

[Flying Scotsman]

Tubes/Valves...awesome sound.. just ask some musicians

Douggie

[egneg]

That's because the old vacuum tubes could handle a lot more power than transistors.

[domwilson]

Actually, Vacuum tubes are generally lower powered. But they do offer what is called "soft clipping". I used to have a bogen and a H.H. Scott tube amps. The sound was warm and smooth. As I recall, the instruments sounded more detailed compared to my higher powered transistor amp at that time. Pink Floyd's "Dark Side of the Moon" and Ramsey Lewis's "Sun Goddess" albums sounded frightenly realistic. Scarey if you're not expecting the vocals.

[domwilson]

Dom, you are on the button. The maggies are a great speaker, their bass voice was not great. I owned a pair.

Douggie

True. Tried a few different speaker placements, crossover filters and subs with them. Ended up with a Realistic sub with a woofer replacement. Fits the need.

[Red65]

Disco was alive and well in 1977 due to the movie "Saturday Night Fever", with John Travolta.

I agree

A Survey: The First DISCO Song / Record!

The FIRST DISCO SONG...

The term "DISCO" was loved by many in the seventies, it was a reference to a style of music that was played in the Night Clubs. They, in turn became known affectionately as "DISCOS", as in "I'm going to the DISCO" It was there that we heard "DISCO Music". Soon those who didn't know how to dance started an anti-DISCO movement, as in DISCO SUCKS! That is another story all together. The Term "DISCO" is today like a sexually transmitted disease, no-one wants anything to do with it.


But when did DISCO actually start? What was the FIRST DISCO record? Who was the first DISCO GROUP? Well, I hope to shed some light on this. While there have been "DISCOTEHQUES" in Europe since before World War II, in Paris , today's "DISCOS" started being called that in the early seventies. DISCO music was what changed them from Night Clubs . The music itself caused the TERM to be applied to the locations as well. BUT....

Is there ONE song that changed everything? ONE song that started "DISCO"? Probably not just ONE song, but for arguments sake, I tried to find it. The FIRST song that was termed DISCO. Before it, the music played was called SOUL or R&B. After this one song, DISCO MUSIC or DISCO became the term to which the dance music was being referred to. There isn't just ONE song, no. But I asked 1,200 deejays from that DISCO era to give me their earliest recollections, and I took them down, made a list of their responses. Soon I had a list of over one-hundred and sixty-five songs!! The ones that were mentioned most often, credited for the beginning of DISCO, are now listed below.

Some deejays put titles like "Dancin in the streets" by Martha Reeves and The Vandellas from 1964 as the first. WRONG! That was SOUL / R & B / MOTOWN, not DISCO. That wasn't the song that gave us the TERM! Others credited SANTANA and "Black Magic Woman/Evil Ways". WRONG again. That was "Dance-able Rock", it too, didn't start the DISCO movement. A lot of Stevie Wonder's work was mentioned, but alas, that too was MOTOWN, and did not start the DISCO explosion.

It was close, the top three songs listed were all mentioned by over 75 percent of those who responded to my survey. There are some BIG surprises on the list. Even bigger surprises as to who is NOT on the list. No Bee Gees, or DISCO INFERNO. Is this "fool proof", no, but it does give us a very good idea of the music that started the DISCO movement.

Here you have them, the TWENTY-FIVE FIRST SONGS OF DISCO! (In reverse order)

#25- "FRANKENSTEIN" by The EDGAR WINTER GROUP- 25 percent
#24- "Mr. BIG STUFF" by JEAN KNIGHT-27 percent
#23- "LET'S GET IT TOGETHER" by EL COCO-30 percent
#22- "JUNGLE BOOGIE/HOLLYWOOD SWINGIN" by KOOL AND THE GANG-33 percent
#21- "BALL OF CONFUSION" by THE TEMPTATIONS-35 percent
#20- "ROCK THE BOAT" by THE HUES CORPORATION-45 percent
#19- "VENUS" by The SHOCKING BLUE-45 percent
#18- "PILLOW TALK" by SYLVIA-45 percent
#17- "LOOK ME UP" by BLUE MAGIC-45 percent
#16- "LOVE'S THEME" by The LOVE UNLIMITED ORCHESTRA-46 percent
#15- "DANCE TO THE MUSIC" by SLY STONE-47 percent
#14- "I'M GONNA LOVE YOU JUST A LITTLE MORE" by BARRY WHITE-48 percent
#13- "THE LOVE I LOST/BAD LUCK" by HAROLD MELVIN and THE BLUE NOTES-50 percent
#12- "KEEP ON TRUCKIN' / BOOGIE DOWN / DATE WITH THE RAIN" by EDDIE KENDRICKS-50 percent
#11- "SPANISH HARLEM" by ARETHA FRANKLIN-52 percent
#10- "ARMED AND EXTREMELY DANGEROUS / NEWSY NEIGHBORS" by The FIRST CHOICE-53 percent
#9- "IN THE SUMMERTIME" by MUNGO JERRY-54 percent
#8- "THEME FROM SHAFT" by ISSAC HAYES-59 percent
#7- " LOVE TRAIN" by The O'JAYS-60 percent
#6- " LET'S GET IT ON" by MARVIN GAYE-60 percent
#5- "WANT ADS" by HONEY CONE-60 percent
#4- "JUNGLE FEVER" by The CHAKACHAS-70 percent
#3- "FREDDIE'S DEAD / SUPERFLY" by CURTIS MAYFIELD-75 percent
#2- "CISCO KID / ME AND BABY BROTHER / SPILL THE WINE" by WAR-80 percent
#1- "ZING WENT THE STRINGS OF MY HEART" by THE TRAMMPS-90 percent

There it is, the best that I could do. Gives us a lot to talk about doesn't it!
http://www.discomusic.com/101-more/12972_0_7_0_C65/

[detox]

Notice any resemblance?

Of course. That is why I mention him...Neal Young.

TUBES...Some New Old Stock Mullard tubes sound nice. These current made Chinese tube amps can sound too bright. Especially my ASL integrated with new chinese tubes...which I recently sold. The old SCOTT integrated amps (early 1960's era) with Tone Controlls were some of the best sounding amps (they used Mullards).

I know what listening Fatique is...been there done that. Which is why I currently own an a B&K and Denon amp.


..................

[domwilson]

Man, I feel old. I remember all these songs. From what I remember, 1969-1974 Good music but everyone was too stoned to dance or couldn't. Then a new dance came out called "The Bump" that anyone with a hip could do. At that same time, 3 songs came out which got people up on the dance floor. The Hue Corporation -Rock the Boat, Kool & the Gang - Jungle Boogie, and The Ohio Players - Skin Tight which was followed up with Fire. Then everything got a little strange when The Hustle came out. Then the flamboyancy and the "Disco Danny's" made alot of people not want to dance.

[domwilson]

Of course. That is why I mention him...Neal Young.

TUBES...Some New Old Stock Mullard tubes sound nice. These current made Chinese tube amps can sound too bright. Especially my ASL integrated with new chinese tubes...which I recently sold. The old SCOTT integrated amps (early 1960's era) with Tone Controlls were some of the best sounding amps...they say.

I know what listening Fatique is...been there done that. Which is why I currently own B&K and Denon amps.


..................

For those who don't know what listener fatigue is. Listen to music from an A.M. radio for awhile. When it starts to drive you nuts, report back here and let us know your experience.

[domwilson]

Oh yeah. Another good album...
Steely Dan - Aja.

[Flying Scotsman]

I love this discussion. In my humble opinion listener fatigue is caused by a very bright/ treble accentuation caused by making the wrong choices in equipment. Most people buy equipment that demands their initial attention in sound but generaly the worst enviroment...big box electronic stores. The bass and treble in most of these demos are exagerated beyond belief. You take it home and you are very disappointed with the sound..boomy bass and bright treble. Tone controls on QUALITY equipment can help but not mask the original problems. Choose the source first...CD/Phono...then speakers...then an amplifyer that is suited to drive the speakers and bring out the best sound possible from your other equipment. The best place to audition and buy equipment is at an audio store.

Douggie

[domwilson]

I think the consumer hi-fi market has taken cues from our government. Promise everything and deliver little to nothing. There is alot of hype from alot of manufacturers claiming that their equipment does this or that. That you'll see angels and their equipment promises world peace. Alot of people don't really know what hi-fi is, so they rely on the marketing hype. I recently went to one of those "Big Chain Stores" to evaluate some speakers. I was impressed by some small speakers and their deep bass. Not boomy, but deep and tight. Found the store had wired a sub to the speaker selector for all the small speakers. Turned the sub off and got a real listen to the crap they were trying to push. I was so tramatized!

[domwilson]

I love this discussion. In my humble opinion listener fatigue is caused by a very bright/ treble accentuation caused by making the wrong choices in equipment. Most people buy equipment that demands their initial attention in sound but generaly the worst enviroment...big box electronic stores. The bass and treble in most of these demos are exagerated beyond belief. You take it home and you are very disappointed with the sound..boomy bass and bright treble. Tone controls on QUALITY equipment can help but not mask the original problems. Choose the source first...CD/Phono...then speakers...then an amplifyer that is suited to drive the speakers and bring out the best sound possible from your other equipment. The best place to audition and buy equipment is at an audio store.


Douggie

You're right. Listener fatigue comes from various types of distortions (Harmonic, intermodulation, phase, etc.) and from the addition or subtration of sound not present in the original recording. Our brains pick that kind of stuff up.

Oh yeah...Just got done listening to Cat Stevens - Peace Train.

[EPower]

Please lets not forget Pink Floyd

[detox]

Choose the source first...CD/Phono...then speakers...then an amplifyer that is suited to drive the speakers and bring out the best sound possible from your other equipment.
Douggie

Wrong Speakers first...then amplifier (with tone controls)...because every recording studio uses a different sounding playback system... thus for every CD needs some type of equallization because of.

[Flying Scotsman]

Wrong Speakers first...then amplifier (with tone controls)...because every recording studio uses a different sounding playback system... thus for every CD needs some type of equallization because of.

Detox with all respect, you really have it all wrong. Source first and end of question !!! what is your source??

[detox]

My source is my ears...Douggie! You have fallen pray to that misleading Streophile magazine garbage. They want to confuse you so you will keep buying............ The answer is so simple.

[Flying Scotsman]

My source is my ears...Douggie! You have fallen pray to that misleading Streophile magazine garbage. They want to confuse you so you will keep buying............ The answer is so simple.

Their is some validity to that answer. But what is your source. cd..phono..???
if it is an Ipod or simillar piece of crap do not answer.

Douggie

[detox]

You got me...I have to answer this one. My listening system consists of Sonus Faber Grand Piano Home speakers, Sony SACD 333ES and Denon turntable with MC 160 cartidge, Denon DRA 37 AM/FM receiver (only about 30 watts per channel).

[Flying Scotsman]

A great system, change out the receiver and replace it with if you can afford it a seperate amp and tuner. Plus watts per channel mean nothing...in fact..those that claim high watts are usually rubbish

Douggie

[domwilson]

It's in the mind, man....In the mind.
The advertisers are eating my brain!

[domwilson]

A great system, change out the receiver and replace it with if you can afford it a seperate amp and tuner. Plus watts per channel mean nothing...in fact..those that claim high watts are usually rubbish

Douggie

The FTC rating for audio amplifiers have changed. It's no longer stated with all channels driven. They don't even have to give a power bandwidth anymore. Some manufacturers (Like Nad) are trying to get them to adopt a standard which will be useable by the consumer once again. Until then, equipment from 1997 back to 1974 go by the "old" but better rating system.

[detox]

A great system, change out the receiver and replace it with if you can afford it a seperate amp and tuner.
Douggie

Rubbish...I have B&K seperate. Try the $300.00 Denon...if you do not like simply return it. Most places have a 30 day return policy.

[domwilson]

That's another debate. As a owner of both, I'm neutral. It's all up to the individual. He is the one who has to live with his purchase. But if the manufacturer is "Soundesign" then you may draw some stares.

Donna Summer
John Cougar Mellencamp
Billy Idol.

[Flying Scotsman]

The FTC rating for audio amplifiers have changed. It's no longer stated with all channels driven. They don't even have to give a power bandwidth anymore. Some manufacturers (Like Nad) are trying to get them to adopt a standard which will be useable by the consumer once again. Until then, equipment from 1997 back to 1974 go by the "old" but better rating system.

This is the sad part. Dumb consumers buy product on hype. My son bought a .....42" LCD TV...four years ago at a cost of $2,500 It failed 2 weeks ago. My Sony XBR CRT 34" is working great...6 years old... and on high definition my son's wife's states why does our new LCD not look as good in picture quuality as Douggie's and we spent another $2,900?

Douggie