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Thread: Darin's ProBoat Miss Elam Race Prep

  1. #1
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    Default Darin's ProBoat Miss Elam Race Prep

    Hi Gang,
    I've been fortunate enough this season to be asked to join Team Horizon Hobby. I feel honored by this and we'll see what I can do with their products.

    So, for my first project, I've decided for this season to race a ProBoat Miss Elam in "LSH" to test the viability of racing this hull. So, it's only fitting that I do a build-up article.

    Here is the first installment.

    Overall, this boat is nice quality. The hardware if solid, and it's laid-out nicely. My original intent was to leave it nearly stock, but after looking it over, I've decided to stray from that a tad to make it as competitive as possible, and to make it easier to maintain at the races.

    Here are some initial pics. Stay tuned for many more...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Here are a few more initial shots...

    As you can see, there is going to be a little bit of work to do to get the sponson ride-pads trued, but overall, it appears that this will be the most extensively worked area. Everything else looks to be fairly simply upgrades.

    More to come...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Why the fixed strut?? RTR simplicity? or scale-ness?
    My prop hasn't been wet in a while.

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    Both Calcagno...

    Darin, she sure looks nice... I am looking forward to
    see the "how-to" you are putting together.
    I know that you are thinking about changing out the
    strut to the adjustable type, are you planning in changing
    square flex as well? Is there room under the cockpit to place
    a 4s pack or 2x 2s packs? How do you like the motor mount,
    does it have enough support on the base to hold the motor w/o
    "bouncing" around or should there be a rear support for the can?
    Does the rudder have enough support or do you think it'll have the same
    problem as the UL was having with the turn fin?
    I apologize for the inquisition in advance...
    thanks for this thread.
    Last edited by Ub Hauled; 02-21-2009 at 04:55 AM.
    :::::::::::::::. It's NEVER fast enough! .:::::::::::::::

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ub Hauled View Post
    are you planning in changing square flex as well?
    Yes... the flexshaft will be being replaced with an Octura or Hughey .150 flex. The reason for this is mostly because the stock stub-shaft is only a 3mm shaft and won't accept the props I'm planning on running, so I'll replace the strut/flex assembly with .150 and 3/16" stub...


    Is there room under the cockpit to place a 4s pack or 2x 2s packs?
    You can fit a 2S pack on either side of the motor. It's a tight squeeze, but they fit. I think the motor position may make it tough to try to fit a 4S pack up in the nose, so I'll be sticking with the saddle position for now. I have other plans for the area up under the cockpit... Stay tuned for that...

    How do you like the motor mount, does it have enough support on the base to hold the motor w/o "bouncing" around or should there be a rear support for the can?
    Motor mount is rock solid. Other that recoating all the interior wood with epoxy, much like we did on the SV27s... I don't plan on changing a thing here. I did replace the motor mount screws with some new 3mm screws and chased the insert threads with a tap, but we're getting ahead of ourselves here... I'll document that as we get to it...

    Does the rudder have enough support or do you think it'll have the same
    problem as the UL was having with the turn fin?
    It looks like they've added a plywood backer to the entire transom area, which is an update compared to the original ProBoat Miss Bud. Looks like it's rock-solid back there as well.

    More to come...
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    I would like you all to keep in mind as I progress through this that some of these things I do, I do because I think it makes it easier to work on the boat. All of these updates are NOT necessary to have fun racing this hull. I'll try to tell you when I'm doing something where I think it's more of a "it's just me" thing, and not something you would HAVE to do...

    OK, moving forward... After removing all of the gear, I decided that the stock radio tray was just going to be in the way, so I carefully removed it... It's made of thin vacuum formed plastic, so I just cut it out with an Xacto by cutting the walls just below the top lip, then carefully cutting away the top lip. The epoxy used to glue this on is pretty brittle, so you can pop it loose pretty easily with a flat Xacto blade. Just take your time so as to preserve the fiberglass flat underneath it.

    I plan on making a subhatch for this area that can be taped down seperately and will fit directly into the remaining fiberglass lip left around the radio box.

    This step is NOT neccesarily needed, but it will make working on the boat on raceday a whole lot easier in my opinion, and it's easy to do.

    I also plan on moving the ESC forward in the hull to get the weight off the prop. I think I have the perfect place for it...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Here are some pictures that show the sponsons... Like with most other RTR hulls, the ride-pads are going to need some work. They are currently convex slightly, and are not "flat". This is typical of pretty much any RTR or Production boat, so it's not a big deal. A little attention to detail here will go a LONG way in improving the speed and ride of this boat.

    Another thing I found with this hull is that the sponsons actually had dihedral on one side, and anhedral on the other... And NOT in the directions you would want them... The Left sponson actually has about 1-degree or so of anhedral, which means the outside of the ridepad was LOWER than the inside. This sponson should at most be flat, and maybe even have 1-degree or more of dihedral.

    The Right sponson was close to flat. It should actually have 1-degree or so of dihedral.

    We'll work on fixing that.

    Both sponsons were laterally convex along the ride-pad at the back. In other words, the center of the ride-pads were lower than the outside edges. We'll have to square that up as well. Again, this is NOT unusual for a production boat, and easily taken care of with the addition of some harder ride pads...

    Once I figure out what the current geometry is, I'll start working on installing some ride-pads, like I did on the other buildup. This one will be a tad different, because of the sponson shape and lack of anti-submarine pads at the front of the sponsons, but it shouldn't be too difficult. I'm even going to do it in a way that preserves the majority of the original paint... hopefully...
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by Darin Jordan; 02-21-2009 at 12:10 PM.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Did you mean: dihedral
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dihedral

    What about the AOA of sponsons...using the 1/16" ply measuring method what did Miss Elam measure out of box?




    .....................

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    Quote Originally Posted by detox View Post
    OH, probably! I fixed it in the text above... Give me a break... it's EARLY still!


    What about the AOA of sponsons...using the 1/16" ply measuring method what did Miss Elam measure out of box?
    With the stock strut setting, they measure about 2-degrees... I think that's going to have to be increased, but before I decide on the final angle, I want to measure the tunnel angles first to see what kind of lift is happening there... It has a double break, with a steep entry for the first 3" or so, then a shallower section, followed by another break to the flat afterplane portion...
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Darin Jordan View Post
    I want to measure the tunnel angles first to see what kind of lift is happening there... It has a double break, with a steep entry for the first 3" or so, then a shallower section, followed by another break to the flat afterplane portion...
    I have a lot to learn...concerning what works and what does not work.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydroplane





    ....................

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    Could you show us the turn fin and mount?

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    Darin, congratulations on the Team Horizon position.
    That hull has great scale looks, which leads to my question, will you keep the wing for LSH racing.

    Douggie

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    Alright... I couldn't work on the hull much this weekend, but I did take some time in the evening to take a bunch of measurements and draw up some full-sized sketches of the geometry of this hull for analysis.

    After consulting with an expert on the topic, I've decided that I'm NOT going to be adding any ride-pads at this point, but will simply do what is necessary to make the ride-surfaces true, and get the dihedral correct.

    This is because the geometry of the hull in as a whole should be really good for racing. The tunnel profile will work well with the ride-pads as they are... The focus will be on truing up the ride surfaces, and then making the modifications necessary to adjust the strut. With these changes, I should be able to tune the hull appropriately.

    I've done some of the work already and will post pictures as soon as I have them downloaded from the camera.
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Sweeeet
    :::::::::::::::. It's NEVER fast enough! .:::::::::::::::

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    Thanks Snowman, Andy, I presume or?

    Douggie

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    Shoot, Doug, not ME! I'm watching this thread so I can prep MY OWN Elam! I work on radios, not hulls.

    Andy
    Spektrum Development Team

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    Good thread, Darin. Those are very strong and well built motors but I fugure you may be putting something else in? Love to see how it runs on the UL1 Ammo motor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Wohlt View Post
    Good thread, Darin. Those are very strong and well built motors but I fugure you may be putting something else in? Love to see how it runs on the UL1 Ammo motor.
    I will be running the ProBoat motor and ESC... The extra KV of the UL1 comes at the expense of torque... I think either can be made to compete... I'll stick with ProBoat in this boat for now...
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    OK... progress....

    Warning... some of this is NOT for the Faint of Heart... Proceed VERY carefully...

    In preparation for a more adjustable strut setup, I am modifying the stock stuffing tube to allow for more range of movement, mostly in the UP direction.

    I carefully cut away the wooden block that is epoxied between the stuffing tube and the hull. Take your time and be careful as you do this.

    Spend some time carefully cleaning away the excess glue and wood.
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    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Next, I decided to anneal the brass in the area where I wanted it to be a little more bendable...

    Using a wet rag to protect the surrounding areas and after removing the teflon liner, I carefully heated the tube to glowing in the area where it would need to bend... As soon as it glowed red, I took away the flame. I heated it to within about 1/2" of the hull exit. This process also burned off the paint from the brass.

    If you decide to do this, please use EXTREME care, or you'll warp the bottom of the hull or worse. I'm not sure this step is necessary, but I find it makes adjusting the strut much easier and less likely to kink or snap the brass tubing. Also puts less pressure on the hull where the brass exits.

    When it's all finished, I used some 220 wet-dry to clean up the brass tubing then went over it with some scotch-brite... or steel wool to polish it up some...
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    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    I like the area that is supporting the motor and driveline to be RIGID... Flex here can cause binding and snapped flex-shafts.

    Using some carbon flat-stock, I cut a few pieces and placed them across the afterplane area of the inner hull in such a way as to support the fiberglass around the stuffing tube.

    Once cut, I glued them in place with some thick CA. Don't worry about getting them completely glued down all round the edges... the next step will take care of that...
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    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    To complete the stiffening of the afterplane, I am laying in a layer of 6oz Carbon Fiber cloth.

    To do this, I cut a pattern to assure a clean fit.

    One problem often associated with laying in fiberglass or carbon is that it's sometimes tough to get clean edges. One solution is to adhere a piece of lightweight glass cloth over the carbon. I used some 1 1/2oz lightweight glass weave (I think it's a hounds-tooth pattern...). Lightly fog the surface of the glass with Super 77 Spray Adhesive, then stick it down to the carbon.

    Now, you can cut out your shape without worrying about the edges fraying.

    Once you have your carbon cut, lightly fog the back of it (fiberglass side) with Super 77, then stick it down in place.
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    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Once you have the carbon loosely in place, carefully press it down to make sure it completely conforms to the contours, etc.

    Once it's tacked down, you can mix your epoxy and work it into the cloth. Start from the middle and work your way out, liberally applying epoxy and working it in using a cut down piece of a bondo spreader, or other appropriate tool... Acid brushes are useful here as well.

    Be careful not to catch the carbon and fray it... Just take your time and make sure you get full saturation.

    Then blot of the excess with a clean towel and set asside to completely dry. This would be a good time to make sure the afterplane is still flat... If there is any warp in it, block it up somehow so that when the epoxy dries, the warp is out...
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    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    Here are a few more of the epoxying process...

    If you have any leftover epoxy, use it to laminate the wood inside...

    Once it's all dry, I'll get to work making a new servo mount (or retrofitting the original... I'll have to look at it), and then I'll move onto trueing the ride-pads... or making the adjustable strut...
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    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    does the boat come with thrust bearings Darin?
    :::::::::::::::. It's NEVER fast enough! .:::::::::::::::

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    Not sure about you all but this is turning me on!!

    Got to give it to you, Darin. Do you have three arms so you can build and shoot pictures???

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ub Hauled View Post
    does the boat come with thrust bearings Darin?

    No... On the stock boat, the thrust is taken at the strut... The coupler and thrust bearing you see in the pics is an Octura coupler and VXB thrust bearing that I added...
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    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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    lookin' pretty sweet darin
    SUPERVEE 27 37'' TWIN CAT

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    Darin,

    Why not replace the stuffing tube all together. Seems like a lot of work when replacing would be easier and cleaner without the risk of heat warping the hull.

    Ub Hauled, good question about the thrust bearing. I was going to ask the same thing!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by longballlumber View Post
    Darin,

    Why not replace the stuffing tube all together. Seems like a lot of work when replacing would be easier and cleaner without the risk of heat warping the hull.
    It wasn't hard to do what I did at all... took all of about 10-minutes, with minimal cutting, grinding, and tearing up the hull... Nothing wrong with the existing tubing, just needed a little tweaking... Do it right, and the hull will be fine... And it turned out VERY clean... Nice shiney brass! (I don't actually have the final pictures posted... but you'll see...)

    Just the way I roll... My intent is to be minimally invasive and to do a minimum amount of work to get the job done right...
    Darin E. Jordan - Renton, WA
    "Self-proclaimed skill-less leader in the hobby."

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