Floatation that works please

[Froggy]

I?ve lost three boats in the last 6 months and by sheer luck recovered one.
All of the boats had pool noodles in them and as much of it as I could stuff into the hull not one boat came to the surface.
The boat I found yesterday was a Ten Shock Mini Storm/ Dominator, it has been on the bottom of my lake for 4 months, the boat was completely in tact hatch was still taped firmly closed and it was full of water ??
I lost a Delta Force 26 yesterday stuffed with pool noodles same thing sunk and never came up I?m going to fish for that one today hopefully God willing I?ll find it.
Anyway I will not be using pool noodles in the future what are you guys using that works.

When I brought the Tenshock up it was frigging heavy, it?s only 17 ins long, when filled with water there?s no way the floatation I had in that boat or the others could support that weight.
Gotta come up with something more buoyant, please help I can?t afford to loose another boat.

One more thing, after 4 months on the bottom shelf f my lake which by the way is 10ft deep, the Ten Shock after flushing with fresh water and a good dose of compressed air and WD40 everything in the boat except for the steering servo works.lol surprised as heck.

[T.S.Davis]

I've been using pool noodles for a couple decades. The only boat I've lost didn't have noodle ion it.

Not sure what's going on for you.

[Panther6834]

I've been using pool noodles for a couple decades. The only boat I've lost didn't have noodle ion it.

Not sure what's going on for you.

I know...I'm trying to figure that one out, as well. Ships used to have hulls made from concrete, and those float, so there no reason why an RC boat "stuffed full with pool noodle" shouldn't float. Add long as the vessel on question weighs less than the weight of the displaced water, it will float...it might just be the bow peeking through the surface, but that's still "floating".

The fact that the boat sank to the bottom, and was "completely filled with water", tells me two things - the boat didn't have as much pool noodle (ie. not enough to counter the weight of the water it displaces)as the owner claims and/or r boat wasn't as "completely sealed" add the owner thinks it was. Using my stepdad's ProBoat Recoil (original 17") as an example, it comes work Styrofoam glued inside the bow...but, it's such a small amount that, when the canopy came off one time (that was before I told him to tape the canopy, as you don't want to trust that flimsy "latch"), while the canopy floated (it also has Styrofoam glued to it), the boat sank to the bottom. Thankfully, with Sunset Lake (Las Vegas) being fairly shallow, it was recovered.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[photohoward1]

Sometimes they get stuck in the mud too.

[Froggy]

I think they go stuck in the mud on the bottom,

[ray schrauwen]

Just an FYI... it's good to open up a brushless motor and spray in some corrosion block after being submerged since the steel stator plates rust like crazy in water and no motor is sealed. Bearings might be toasted too.

[Panther6834]

I think they go stuck in the mud on the bottom,

No mud on the top? Just kidding...the comment was too ripe for the picking...lol

Sometimes they get stuck in the mud too.

True, true...but, needs to sink first, thus the Ops initial question related to 'floatation'. Truth be told, 'anything' can sink (or be sunk), with the right ingenuity (tie a very heavy rock to a helium-filled balloon, and even the balloon will be "taken down"). Yeah, I know...sarcastic comment, but done for a purpose.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[ray schrauwen]

I always have said the pool noodles absorb water, how much is hard to know but I might try an experiment by soaking a cut noodle in water. I still use them even though on a few occasions when I soaked the inside of a hull I noticed the ones with lots of shaping and cutting could be wrung out and would weigh more. My guess or hypothesis is that over time they can absorb enough water to make it hard for a boat to surface once becoming dislodged from the bottom.

We will see.

[ray schrauwen]

No mud on the top? Just kidding...the comment was too ripe for the picking...lol



True, true...but, needs to sink first, thus the Ops initial question related to 'floatation'. Truth be told, 'anything' can sink (or be sunk), with the right ingenuity (tie a very heavy rock to a helium-filled balloon, and even the balloon will be "taken down"). Yeah, I know...sarcastic comment, but done for a purpose.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

Sink first not really. When a boat stuffs it's still under power and that can and does easily force the bow into the bottom of a pond or lake.

[1coopgt]

Kind of depends on how fast it was going . It could act like a torpedo and buried it's self in the bottom of the pond . Then it has all the time in the world to leak in water through the stuffing tube.

[Froggy]

I was going 40+ I went to retrieve it with my pontoon boat, I saw small bubbles coming up for about 5 mins so I know where it is,
I just have to order a transducer for my Garmin for that boat to pin point it, I have a14ft long pool net hoping I can find it

[CJPB32]

Put on a scuba mask and dive for it from your boat. It's only 10 feet. In summer of course.

Our lake is 100 ft deep by the dam. I don't dive 100 feet but 20 feet is easily doable if the water is clear.

[Froggy]

The water in our lakes here are treated with chemicals to keep algae and fish at bay not a good environment to dive in, the visibility is only about a foot the lakes are man made.
I did a lot of diving when ai was younger I was a USN Search and rescue swimmer, not diving in this water, the temp and f the water is around 50 degrees

[Veloctiykingsracing]

Divinycell

[T.S.Davis]

Could just be that there's not enough pool noodle. The flotation needs to create enough buoyancy to offset the hull, hardware, electronics, batteries etc. You could almost weight your boat. Then tie weight to a piece of pool noodle. Give that a float to figure if you have enough.

I used to have this problem with my Maus Micro bullet. Zero chance of getting enough foam in there. Had to catch that thing before it sank. One time a water line come off. That sucked. It was close to shore. Maybe 15 feet. Ran out into 45 degree water. Young n' dumb.

[Froggy]

Three boats sunk stuffed with pool noodles as full as I could get it in there, the pool noodles that I took out of the boat were full of water, it absorbed allot.
No more pool noodles for me
I?m thinking maybe styrofoam ??

[Panther6834]

Three boats sunk stuffed with pool noodles as full as I could get it in there, the pool noodles that I took out of the boat were full of water, it absorbed allot.
No more pool noodles for me
I?m thinking maybe styrofoam ??

I have you the formula on how to determine it. Read one of my previous comments to find the formula (note: the formula is in the form of a sentence, not a mathematical formula).


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Silver954]

Flotation 2lbs density foam is what I use. It's exothermic so precautions must be taken. Otherwise it adds great rigidity to the hulls.

[T.S.Davis]

Flotation 2lbs density foam is what I use. It's exothermic so precautions must be taken. Otherwise it adds great rigidity to the hulls.

I've had multiple problems with 2 part.

First it does absorb some water. Not like spray foam but some. Spray foam never cures and is more like a sponge than structure.

The other problem is that it expands and contracts based on temperature. When it shrinks it can warp what ever it's adhered to. Had it happen a couple times before I quit filling voids with it.

I've heard of guys spraying silicon spray in the hull before they pour so that it never sticks to the hull. I've also heard of guys using cling wrap to separate the foam from the hull. That sounds like a nightmare though. I still use it for things. That stuff makes such killer structure. The way it fills gaps completely is kind cool to watch. I just don't completely surround it.

[Panther6834]

Flotation 2lbs density foam is what I use. It's exothermic so precautions must be taken. Otherwise it adds great rigidity to the hulls.

From all I've read, this is a REALLY BAD idea. First, knowing exactly how much to pour can be a real problem...get the mixture just slightly off, and it can expand more/less, then anticipated and/or it won't properly set (ie. too soft, or too dense). Additionally, as pointed out by T.S.Davis, it can lead to warping the hull...or, worse - if it expands to much, it can cause the hull to crack, destroying the boat.

Pool noodle has been proven to be the most effective method...tho, it also requires replacement after a certain period of time, as the material will, eventually, break down. An alternate method/material, as used by several manufacturers, is Styrofoam. However, installing Styrofoam could be tricky...depending on the hull, it could require separating the lower hull & deck, custom cutting/fitting the Styrofoam, and then reattaching the deck to the lower hull. Such could be more effort than it's worth.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Silver954]

I don't know man, it's worked for me, but to each their own.
Pouring small batches and the hull submerged vertically in water has prevented the warping and curing issues.

[Panther6834]

I don't know man, it's worked for me, but to each their own.
Pouring small batches and the hull submerged vertically in water has prevented the warping and curing issues.

In small batches, I could see how that might actually work.

With what I potentially said, that was, as I mentioned, based on what I've read from others who've tried. But, I would also suspect it might add a bit too much weight to the bow, as it's definitely heavier than pool noodle, or Styrofoam. At the same time, that have me an 'interesting' idea of combining them. Seriously, I wonder how the following work...and, is anyone has tried this:

Start by placing smaller pieces of Styrofoam or pool noodle into the bow. Next, using the "pour in small batches" method (as mentioned by Silver954, above), slowly cover, layer-by-layer, the Styrofoam/pool noodle, until the desired coverage is achieved. Essentially, the Styrofoam/pool noodle would actually be the 'primary' floatation material, encapsulated within the 2-part foam 'secondary' floatation material.

In this, I'd probably go with pool noodle over Styrofoam, as pool noodle is more buoyant, due to its lighter weight vs mass. At the same time, encapsulating the pool noodle within the 2-part foam would prevent the pool noodle from absorbing water. An additional 'bonus' to this would be preventing the pool noodle from "breaking down", as it would no longer be exposed to the elements. What are other's thoughts on this idea? Good idea? Bad idea?


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Froggy]

Has anyone here weighed all of their boat parts, filled the boat with water and weighed it.
The reason I?m asking is because when I found my 17in min Dom it was full of water with the hatch in tact, I was really surprised how heavy it felt.
I instinctively knew by the weight of it the floatation Stuffed into the boat would not have been enough to float the bat full of water, no way.

[jkflow]

Just hate to point this out but the weight of water has nothing to do with the fact if a boat floats or not. Water weight is neutral when submerged. You must have enough foam/flotation to float the weight of your batteries and everything else that makes up your boat.Water weight does matter when you are above water level.

You can experiment as to how much is needed, weight your boat with lipo etc, next use a bag with sand or enough weight to mimic your boat and try it with your flotation foam.
My rigger has barely enough to keep the nose out of teh water but have no room for anything more.

[Panther6834]

I instinctively knew by the weight of it the floatation Stuffed into the boat would not have been enough to float the bat full of water, no way.

You're forgetting a major point - IF the boat is sealed, then it wouldn't have filled with water. Even if a boat 'dives', as long as you release the throttle trigger as soon as you notice it going under, that should immediately cease all motor rotation. At that point, the boat WILL weight less than the water it's displacing. As long as its forward movement hasn't shoved it into mud/clay/etc, then there no reason why it wouldn't return to the surface. Even if there's a minor leak, it should still have enough buoyancy to return to the surface.

True, it might only be the tip of the bow at the surface (the weight of the ESC, motor, and battery would 'hold' the stern down)...but, that's still enough to make it buoyant. The 'catch' to all this is is there is anything more than a "minor amount" of water entering the hull. That's when any in-hull floatation takes over...and, when the whole "actual weight vs weight of displaced water" can either 'save' your boat, it give another 'gift' to the lake.

To use a few of my boats as examples, when it comes to my SonicWake, and my P-Sport hydro, I'm not worried in the least...almost half the length of the Somewhere, and both sponsons on the hydro, are filled with Styrofoam. At the other end of the spectrum is my Atomic (essentially, the same as the original 17" Recoil)...it has very, very little, and if it went under, I'm fairly certain it would be gone. I have other boats at one end, or the other, of the spectrum. Them, there are a few "in the middle" - TFL Jet Boat, TFL Pursuit, ProMarine Skater X2 (recently sold), ProBoat Shockwave - that, honestly, I don't know whether they'd "sink or swim"...that's why this thread has even me thinking. And, why/how it led me to coming up with that Styrofoam/2-part foam idea.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Panther6834]

Just hate to point this out but the weight of water has nothing to do with the fact if a boat floats or not.

Entirely incorrect. The weight of the water DOES have something to do with whether, or not, a boat (or anything else, for that matter) 'floats'. All any boat designer, and they'll tell you.

When it comes to anything floating, there are two factors in-play: the weight of the object needing to float, and the weight of the water being displaced. As long as the total weight of the object to be floated weighs less than the weight of the water being displaced, the object will float. This isn't referring to the object's weight within the water, but the weight of the ENTIRE object. However, if the total weight of the object weighs more than the weight of the water being displaced, then the object will not float. There is also "neutral buoyancy", where the 'object' is approximately the same weight as the weight of the displaced water.

SCUBA divers, as well a submarines, use this to adjust their buoyancy. As a driver, I start by adding weights to my BCD, which is increased/decreased based on my weight, to 'set' my "neutral buoyancy". Then, while driving, I adjust my buoyancy by adding/removing air from the BCD. Submarines do the exact same thing by adding/removing water from their ballast tanks. To a certain extent, boats are not really any different. The hull is similar to a submarine & SCUBA diver, combined. Essentially, the hull acts like the submarine's ballast tanks, in that it holds air & "flotation material" to help keep it afloat...but, at the same time, the components inside the hull (motor, ESC, battery, etc) acts like the BCD weights, 'pulling' the boat down. And, it is between these two that "the weight of the object being floated vs the weight of the displaced water" matters...thus, the "weight of the water" DOES factor in as to whether, or not, something floats.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[jkflow]

Read through your argument and you will have to conclude that the 'weight' of the water is irrelevant, as I stated. Water is removing the buoyancy, absolutely correct!
If the remaining buoyancy doesn't float the weight of the boat, it will sink. Therefore the water weight does not matter.
Anyway, it's nitpicking and physics.

Key is that you didn't have enough in your sinking boat.
Water will come in through the stuffing tube and rudder, my worst case was loosing a prop and it stayed afloat for about 2h before it went down, I did have enough foam in there though and was able to get it back.

[Panther6834]

Read through your argument and you will have to conclude that the 'weight' of the water is irrelevant, as I stated. Water is removing the buoyancy, absolutely correct!
If the remaining buoyancy doesn't float the weight of the boat, it will sink. Therefore the water weight does not matter.
Anyway, it's nitpicking and physics.

Key is that you didn't have enough in your sinking boat.
Water will come in through the stuffing tube and rudder, my worst case was loosing a prop and it stayed afloat for about 2h before it went down, I did have enough foam in there though and was able to get it back.

It's only "nitpicking", because you're focusing on how to keep a boat closer to the surface once it goes under. However, the info I've been providing is related to how to keep the boat from going under in the first place. Put another way, your 'solution' is related to the "reaction" of a boat going under, whereas my 'solution' is related to preventing the "action" (ie. the boat going under) from happening in the first place. If the "action" never happens, there's no need for the "reaction"...thus, by following all the info I've provided, the info you provided is completely unnecessary.


~ More peace, love, laughter, & kindness would make the world a MUCH better place

[Silver954]

I have not done the weight vs buoyancy test, but it's a good idea to do. My boats are around 30lbs, so the electronics need to be removed, weight added and the hull sunk....

[vvviivvv]

For the OP, can you stuff a bottle (empty + sealed obviously) in the nose with the pool noodle?

Personally I have some USCG / Solas approved lifejackets in the bow of my larger boats coupled with pool noodle.

One of my SAW boats has the poured foam however the previous owner did this, its super rigid and complimented again with as much pool noodle as i can stuff in.