Prop suggestions for OSE Raider 34M

[paDDY]

Hi Gang, I have an ose raider 34m with a 1650kv tp 4060 and ztw 200 esc and a 1815 abc prop. I am getting low 50's on 6s. I feel the boat can handle more prop? Maybe a 3 blade?

[Bande1]

Thats too much prop as it is. You need to aim for about 60mm total pitch. your prop options are highly limited because your RPM is too high. Get the 1350kv TP 4060, its a wye wind which is better because you can turn the timing down. Your delta wind stays on 0 and only 0.

try abc 1714-17-45

you need to expect about 60-65mph for continuous on-throttle use with that motor such as racing. We are setting up a hydro right now with the 4060 for Q class and we hit 71mph today. on lap 4 we smoked the motor. data log pulled right now shows peak of 6600w and 5000w running average. Its too hot for the motor. Your mono is going to be slower than a hydro. so 60mph is about right.

as far as your 50mph right now you obviously have something going wrong in the boat. thats a 66mph prop on there. who knows whats going on. LVC maybe. possibly on reverse, hull could be super wet. ESC maxed.

[fweasel]

If you're just after speed and your motor and ESC temps are within reason, you can step up to a 1915 which should be low 60's on an well trimmed setup. On a similar sized v-bottom, I ran a TP4060 1750kV on 6S and it was fastest when I went a little smaller on diameter and pitch. I dropped from a 1915 to a 1914, to an 1814 and gained speed with the additional RPM at each step. Electronics did run hot so I kept my runtimes down around 3min.

[tbonemcniel]

Thats too much prop as it is. You need to aim for about 60mm total pitch. your prop options are highly limited because your RPM is too high. Get the 1350kv TP 4060, its a wye wind which is better because you can turn the timing down. Your delta wind stays on 0 and only 0.

try abc 1714-17-45

you need to expect about 60-65mph for continuous on-throttle use with that motor such as racing. We are setting up a hydro right now with the 4060 for Q class and we hit 71mph today. on lap 4 we smoked the motor. data log pulled right now shows peak of 6600w and 5000w running average. Its too hot for the motor. Your mono is going to be slower than a hydro. so 60mph is about right.

as far as your 50mph right now you obviously have something going wrong in the boat. thats a 66mph prop on there. who knows whats going on. LVC maybe. possibly on reverse, hull could be super wet. ESC maxed.

Bande is mostly correct, although I'll differ a little on the kv. I think your kv is only a touch high, but just fine.

The combo you've listed should net low to mid 60's. I get it, it's not, so there's something wrong, but it's not the prop. If it's a new build, it could be many things. Have you calibrated the ESC to the receiver? Or as Bande said, it could be where you have reverse and forward swapped. When you're giving forward throttle, the ESC actually thinks its reverse, and applies less power. You can test this by swapping any two motor wires, then reversing that channel in your radio.

It could also just be a lack of power in the electronics. What batteries and are they in series or parallel? If it's two smaller sized lower quality batteries in series, it very well could be you just don't have enough battery to push the boat further. The ESC should handle it faster than it's going, but maybe not much more.

Or, the boat could just be trimmed really really wet.

For reference, I have a 6S mono, 39", so a much larger boat, that went 74 mph with a TP4070 1700kv. It was pretty aired out, and once I dialed it in the speed dropped to around 70 mph. Now, it pulled a lot of amps to do so, around 300A if I recall, and had a Castle XLX2 ESC and two 6S 5000 packs in parallel. This was done with a 1914 prop, which is less total pitch than your current 1815. FYI, I've since dropped the kv in that boat to 1520kv and propped up to achieve similar speeds at less amp draw.

[Bande1]

I have a TP 4070 1520kv Im looking to sell because its not legal for the clubs Q class. $120 shipped CONUS its only 4 months old.

when I first joined this forum and was bashing/speed running I got into an argument about using higher RPM being better. and for that it may be. but Ive since started racing and it becomes clear very fast that 25k-30k or so RPM is way better. thats because you can play with all sorts of pitches and diameters and keep it safe. when you go above 30k youre stuck with 1.4 and 1.5 pitches, above 35k and its strictly 1.4 which are all lower rake props in general, larger tongues. your diameter is always smaller, 3 blades are basically out of the question. It just overwhelms the system really quick when you hold full throttle over 30-45 seconds. Its a whole different thing than speed running.

[tbonemcniel]

I have a TP 4070 1520kv Im looking to sell because its not legal for the clubs Q class. $120 shipped CONUS its only 4 months old.

when I first joined this forum and was bashing/speed running I got into an argument about using higher RPM being better. and for that it may be. but Ive since started racing and it becomes clear very fast that 25k-30k or so RPM is way better. thats because you can play with all sorts of pitches and diameters and keep it safe. when you go above 30k youre stuck with 1.4 and 1.5 pitches, above 35k and its strictly 1.4 which are all lower rake props in general, larger tongues. your diameter is always smaller, 3 blades are basically out of the question. It just overwhelms the system really quick when you hold full throttle over 30-45 seconds. Its a whole different thing than speed running.

Bande, I recall many of your earlier posts. I am glad you have learned through experience that we're not crazy lol. Are ya'll running some sort of club rule Q-Limited class? NAMBA rules have zero motor restrictions for Q anything, and our club conforms to that. The only non-NAMBA motor rule my club has, is for N2 Sport Hydro. We all run the exact same motor and prop, and it makes for some fun door handle to door handle racing!

[Bande1]

Bande, I recall many of your earlier posts. I am glad you have learned through experience that we're not crazy lol. Are ya'll running some sort of club rule Q-Limited class? NAMBA rules have zero motor restrictions for Q anything, and our club conforms to that. The only non-NAMBA motor rule my club has, is for N2 Sport Hydro. We all run the exact same motor and prop, and it makes for some fun door handle to door handle racing!

yeah its a club race thing. 4092 max for Q. they would probably not care if I ran the 4070 but its frankly too big for my JAE. it has to get weight down as well.

[LibertyMKiii]

My 42" mono (unknown hull)
Runs about 55 mph on 6s with a 1650kv using the x645 prop.
1700kv ran right at 60-62 mph.

I like the x series Octura props for monos. Might be worth a shot.

[paDDY]

I think the boat might be running a little too wet. I took a look at the trim tabs, while I thought they were in a neutral position, once I put a ruler on them, they were trimming the boat down. I bent them up. I also raised the drive up a little bit. The boat does seem to need to be loosened up a little. I will test it out see if that helps. I also am thinking of moving the esc back closer to the motor.

IMG_6242 (1).jpg

[LibertyMKiii]

I think the boat might be running a little too wet. I took a look at the trim tabs, while I thought they were in a neutral position, once I put a ruler on them, they were trimming the boat down. I bent them up. I also raised the drive up a little bit. The boat does seem to need to be loosened up a little. I will test it out see if that helps. I also am thinking of moving the esc back closer to the motor.

IMG_6242 (1).jpg

That is alot of change all at one time. Try one thing at a time if you can. I agree usually when a boat is going much slower than expected it is running too wet.
Once you get the trim tabs dialed in it may be a matter of just adjusting the battery placement to get it "just right"

[Bande1]

My 42" mono (unknown hull)
Runs about 55 mph on 6s with a 1650kv using the x645 prop.
1700kv ran right at 60-62 mph.

I like the x series Octura props for monos. Might be worth a shot.

Thats not right either. No offense just trying to help. Go to the prop calculator you'd have to be running at like 80% efficiency. TP motors run at around 95% just for reference. We know that because hyperion data logs show RPM at a given voltage and now Im working with castle data logs also. So when you put those motors into the calculator use a high efficiency. (I got 110 data logs all showing the same across 5 different motors). Our teams phil thomas Q has been running 4616 generally at 59-61mph with 1350kv on 10 degrees of timing. You should be running mid 60's with that prop and KV combo even though its a larger mono.

3.55v per cell is typical
25% prop slip for a mono
95% efficiency

= pretty damn accurate results

[LibertyMKiii]

Thats not right either. No offense just trying to help. Go to the prop calculator you'd have to be running at like 80% efficiency. TP motors run at around 95% just for reference. We know that because hyperion data logs show RPM at a given voltage and now Im working with castle data logs also. So when you put those motors into the calculator use a high efficiency. (I got 110 data logs all showing the same across 5 different motors). Our teams phil thomas Q has been running 4616 generally at 59-61mph with 1350kv on 10 degrees of timing. You should be running mid 60's with that prop and KV combo even though its a larger mono.

3.55v per cell is typical
25% prop slip for a mono
95% efficiency

= pretty damn accurate results

My recent run on a higher KV motor was showing about 3.5v per cell and 31% slip. 450+ amps at 90mph with the XLX2.
This unknown hull has a high point mid way down the hull so it runs more wet than most other boats. My friend is talking me into getting a Seaducer. I might pull the trigger on that purchase soon.

[Bande1]

My recent run on a higher KV motor was showing about 3.5v per cell and 31% slip. 450+ amps at 90mph with the XLX2.
This unknown hull has a high point mid way down the hull so it runs more wet than most other boats. My friend is talking me into getting a Seaducer. I might pull the trigger on that purchase soon.

guy in my club runs a 39 seaducer with a TP4070. It pretty much keeps up with my outrigger. about 65-67mph. the metallic flake paint jobs look very 70's but they seem to run pretty sweet.

[tbonemcniel]

Thats not right either. No offense just trying to help. Go to the prop calculator you'd have to be running at like 80% efficiency. TP motors run at around 95% just for reference. We know that because hyperion data logs show RPM at a given voltage and now Im working with castle data logs also. So when you put those motors into the calculator use a high efficiency. (I got 110 data logs all showing the same across 5 different motors). Our teams phil thomas Q has been running 4616 generally at 59-61mph with 1350kv on 10 degrees of timing. You should be running mid 60's with that prop and KV combo even though its a larger mono.

3.55v per cell is typical
25% prop slip for a mono
95% efficiency

= pretty damn accurate results

It depends on how hard you load the motor. The harder you load it, the more the efficiency drops. Running easy, 95% efficiency is easily obtained. Propped very hard, the same motor can dip to 85% or less efficiency.

[LibertyMKiii]

It depends on how hard you load the motor. The harder you load it, the more the efficiency drops. Running easy, 95% efficiency is easily obtained. Propped very hard, the same motor can dip to 85% or less efficiency.

100% agree.
My mono can run on a 150 amp esc at 60 mph on 6s. It needs 400+ amps to go over 90 mph. The drag at higher speeds is drastically different.

I am pretty new to RC boats and things are a little different, but I know electronic systems very well from the car side of the hobby. I have pushed a 1/7 rc car coming in at 12-14 lbs depending on the setup.
I set some speed records, which later were broken
(2s at 114 mph, 3s at 135mph ) once the motor is heavily loaded and amp saturation occurs the efficiency goes way down. Around the 75% mark is where nothing further will come out good. Only more heat generation and less speed.

[Bande1]

It depends on how hard you load the motor. The harder you load it, the more the efficiency drops. Running easy, 95% efficiency is easily obtained. Propped very hard, the same motor can dip to 85% or less efficiency.

Id consider that overloading. The data log will show higher wattage than continuously rated for. That's what I thinks happening to you both. Just too much prop.

[tbonemcniel]

Loading harder than rated? Absolutely. My continuous current draws often exceed the peak ratings. Just gotta cool the crap out of it!

Does it smoke? Yes. Overloaded or undercooled.
Does it not smoke? All good!

Haha!

[Bande1]

Loading harder than rated? Absolutely. My continuous current draws often exceed the peak ratings. Just gotta cool the crap out of it!

Does it smoke? Yes. Overloaded or undercooled.
Does it not smoke? All good!

Haha!

except youre only seeing 55mph. basically 4s territory. Id lay money that you'd go faster with a lower KV.

[tbonemcniel]

except youre only seeing 55mph. basically 4s territory. Id lay money that you'd go faster with a lower KV.

I think you?ve got me mixed up with the original poster in this thread. My Q Mono goes 74 and my P Mono goes 65.