ProBoat UL19_76mph!

[sammyha]

I took this one off the back burner after purchasing a pair of MaxAmps 3s 5200mAh 175C discharge spec lipos. They are worth every penny I might add. Here's a link to the video of my best SAW run so far with the UL19...

https://youtu.be/7jyo76JVkyU

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[Bande1]

So you ran 2000kv on 6s? I was assured by the most legit long time racers here on OSE that those kind of RPM's will blow an ESC up. And anyone who makes videos of themselves doing over 30k RPM is hiding the fact that they destroyed their boat.

[sammyha]

what comes stock in that boat? what prop? motor?

It's a 3656mm, 2000kv motor. Running on a 120 amp ESC. It came with a 1716 stainless steel prop.

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[fweasel]

The only facts here are the designer of that boat recommended propping down when running 6S. The included prop was intended for lap racing on 4S. The stock setup can handle 6S for shorter speeds runs, with increased heat and obviously shorter run times.

The other fact is that MaxAmp Lipos are a giant waste of money. If you got the performance you wanted out of them, you're an excellent driver and the boat is setup properly. I would suggest another well respected brand of battery in the future for even more performance at a lower price point.

[sammyha]

The only facts here are the designer of that boat recommended propping down when running 6S. The included prop was intended for lap racing on 4S. The stock setup can handle 6S for shorter speeds runs, with increased heat and obviously shorter run times.

The other fact is that MaxAmp Lipos are a giant waste of money. If you got the performance you wanted out of them, you're an excellent driver and the boat is setup properly. I would suggest another well respected brand of battery in the future for even more performance at a lower price point.

fweasel, please advise me on a better lipo! These are noticeably better than what I had. But what's the gold standard?

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[Xrayted]

Sammyha, check out the first page of the Lipo testing thread link below that has been running for more than a decade. These guys do yearly controlled load testing of a variety of packs due to the fact that C ratings are known to be marketing nonsense, and the maxAmps brand has been the running "joke" of the lipo world the entire decade they have been testing them. Thunder Power is also right there with them, and they have the same high price/garbage quality, preying upon the uninformed that will believe the marketing hype

They are bottom of the barrel, barely 15C garbage packs that are being sold at 2-3 X what far better lipo brands out there are sold for. The results on the first page are always kept up to date with the latest load testing, broken down into weight categories and what load each pack could handle without failing completely.

The Max Amps 5000 mAh pack lasted literally ONE second under a 125A load before the voltage sagged down to 3.7V per cell, and consistently comes into last place in their various testing. 125A currents are nothing for FE boats which usually average much higher currents. Compare that same 125A constant load test to an SMC pack that held for a whopping 71 seconds at that same load, and for less than half the MA pack cost!

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...st-Comparisons


SMC is the current best performing lipo you can buy today, is US owned and based with actual customer service directly from the owner. Even "if" the MaxAmps was exactly as good as SMC (its nowhere close), you still paid 3 times as much as a same pack from SMC with much better performance would have cost you.

https://www.smc-racing.com/index.php...ry&path=67_119

[sammyha]

Sammyha, check out the first page of the Lipo testing thread link below that has been running for more than a decade. These guys do yearly controlled load testing of a variety of packs due to the fact that C ratings are known to be marketing nonsense, and the maxAmps brand has been a literal "joke" of the lipo world the entire decade they have been testing them.

They are bottom of the barrel, barely 15C garbage packs that are being sold at 2-3 X what far better lipo brands out there are sold for. The results on the first page are always kept up to date with the latest load testing, broken down into weight categories and what load each pack could handle without failing completely.

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...st-Comparisons



SMC is the current best performing lipo you can buy today, is US owned and based with actual customer service directly from the owner. Even "if" the MaxAmps was exactly as good as SMC (its nowhere close), you still paid nearly three times as much as the same pack from SMC with much better performance would have cost you.

https://www.smc-racing.com/index.php...ry&path=67_119

Thank you

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[fweasel]

I currently like the CNHL packs for budget vs. performance that have tested well in the test post Xrayted linked to above. I had been a previous fan of the HobbyKing/Tunrigy Panther lipos, but their quality has nose dived over the years, which is too bad because my 4yr old race packs are still going strong.

[T.S.Davis]

Down side to CNHL is that they are massive. Avoid the parallel packs. A 4s2p pack has 8 cells to possibly go wonky. Sucks to lose a pack for just one of them.

I've been running some Yowoo lately. Bang for the buck is pretty good but I don't swear by them. They're just okay.....ish.

ML Boatworks just picked up the Dynogy line. I don't know if he has them in hand yet though. These were my cell of choice for quite some time. First set I raced with at the 2010 nats I think. I'll likely order a bunch once he gets them in his mitts.

[sammyha]

Thank you very much for the feedback guys...

I can say this about the MaxAmps lipos I bought. The UL19 was consistently running 71-73mph with the 70C discharge Revolectrix lipos I was using. To jump to 76mph, and on a short-ish run is a big increase. And I'm sure there's more to be had. It was loose but staying down.

That said, I'm listening. Price, size, weight are all factors along with output. I'll be shopping lipos for my RSX 380 next...

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[ray schrauwen]

Down side to CNHL is that they are massive. Avoid the parallel packs. A 4s2p pack has 8 cells to possibly go wonky. Sucks to lose a pack for just one of them.

I've been running some Yowoo lately. Bang for the buck is pretty good but I don't swear by them. They're just okay.....ish.

ML Boatworks just picked up the Dynogy line. I don't know if he has them in hand yet though. These were my cell of choice for quite some time. First set I raced with at the 2010 nats I think. I'll likely order a bunch once he gets them in his mitts.

Where did you buy the Yowoo's from?

[ray schrauwen]

Down side to CNHL is that they are massive. Avoid the parallel packs. A 4s2p pack has 8 cells to possibly go wonky. Sucks to lose a pack for just one of them.

I've been running some Yowoo lately. Bang for the buck is pretty good but I don't swear by them. They're just okay.....ish.

ML Boatworks just picked up the Dynogy line. I don't know if he has them in hand yet though. These were my cell of choice for quite some time. First set I raced with at the 2010 nats I think. I'll likely order a bunch once he gets them in his mitts.

About 7 years ago or more Dinogy sold some 2S packs that were 2P but not advertised as 2P. I also have some HobbyKing packs still that are 2P and not advertised. They all worked well. It's a trick to lower the internal resistance numbers though... I still have the Dinogy packs, bought them from Larry.

[sammyha]

So you ran 2000kv on 6s? I was assured by the most legit long time racers here on OSE that those kind of RPM's will blow an ESC up. And anyone who makes videos of themselves doing over 30k RPM is hiding the fact that they destroyed their boat.

I would say for sure if you're running laps. Would no question overheat the electronics. Everyone doing SAW runs for max speed is overloading the electronics.

Believe me or not, I really don't care, but I've probably got at least 50 SAW runs on this boat running on 6s and over propped...

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[Dirk Jan]

Great job Sam, I like your speed running adventures. You got a great lake to run as well (at least in summer time).

I have good experience with the CNHL lipo's as well. They often have great discounts. I'm not sponsored by them but they pack great punch, compared to my Youme 60C lipo's.

[sammyha]

Great job Sam, I like your speed running adventures. You got a great lake to run as well (at least in summer time).

I have good experience with the CNHL lipo's as well. They often have great discounts. I'm not sponsored by them but they pack great punch, compared to my Youme 60C lipo's.

Thanks! And I appreciate the feedback...

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[T.S.Davis]

Where did you buy the Yowoo's from?

haha Fleabay actually.

[Bande1]

I would say for sure if you're running laps. Would no question overheat the electronics. Everyone doing SAW runs for max speed is overloading the electronics.

Believe me or not, I really don't care, but I've probably got at least 50 SAW runs on this boat running on 6s and over propped...

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curious how does running ovals change anything? cornering actually cools a motor and esc (unless you're WOT cornering). The nitro guys have problems with over-cooling their cylinders in corners.

but I digress, I was assured this, exploding a boat, for "bashing" not for racing.

[sammyha]

curious how does running ovals change anything? cornering actually cools a motor and esc (unless you're WOT cornering). The nitro guys have problems with over-cooling their cylinders in corners.

but I digress, I was assured this, exploding a boat, for "bashing" not for racing.

A speed setup is way looser and a much shorter run time. A lap setup is wetter, so more drag is my understanding...

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[Xrayted]

I had the same experience as fweasel with my first Hobbyking Panther packs. The original Panther Graphene packs were the only batts that could hold up on my 155MPH dedicated speed model RC helicopter. Mine has a 14HP outrunner setup spinning a 5ft diameter rotor at 2800 RPM, and pulling long 200A pulls across the sky in both directions just like SAW boat racing. Any other packs at the time would drop 300 RPM under load due to voltage sag, but the Panthers maintained exactly my set governed RPM under load.

I still have a couple old packs left that still work well, but the newer packs capabilities are nowhere near the performance of the originals. One of the reasons the RCG guys have to keep testing every year. What Lipo is king this year may not be over time as the cell quality is allowed to fall off.

The great thing, at least in my experience is my SMC packs perform every bit as good as my original Panther packs did, but weigh far less as the HK graphene packs were much heavier than other lipos of the same capacity, so its a win/win in my case

[T.S.Davis]

Couple more things of note....

Those Maxamps may have performed well because they're new. Cells do fatigue with use. Especially under high amps. Your former cells could be tired.

On the 6s vs 4s / rpms achieved thing.... The UL was designed by a friend. It was intended to be a 4s boat that could oval race. Then marketing just hadddd to have 6s. Cuz.....well 6s!, everybody wants 6s!, why not 6s!, just put 6s on the box, will it run on 6s!, how fast can we put on the box if we go to 6s? They were told to prop down if they just gotta do 6s.

Sure you can run high rpm. Been there, done that, we've got jackets. Think about it like this though. I can drive my Honda right up to the red line. Probably over it. Likely repeatedly too. That motor is so smooth. The question is, in doing so will my Honda last longer than driving it as intended or less? I suspect the failure may come a tic sooner. We can DO anything. Just gotta be aware of risks and decide for ourselves if they're worth it.

There's no 100% "must be done" way to play with our boats. Some guys get really annoyed if their opinion isn't taken as gospel. That in itself ........is annoying. haha

[T.S.Davis]

cornering actually cools a motor and esc (unless you're WOT cornering)..

This is super not true. Water flow reduces as we travel slower and amperage is off the chart in the turns. Especially post apex. Most of the heat build up happens there. It's like constant acceleration for the exit. Wish I had a data log handy. The corners are batty power wise.

[sammyha]

To reach his own. I thoroughly enjoy the SAW run challenge since there are no racing clubs here. And I have setup my boats and run laps. No doubt running laps takes more skills. Add racing to that and it must be off the charts fun!

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[Bande1]

This is super not true. Water flow reduces as we travel slower and amperage is off the chart in the turns. Especially post apex. Most of the heat build up happens there. It's like constant acceleration for the exit. Wish I had a data log handy. The corners are batty power wise.

oh interesting. I would have never had thought that. was watching a prototype development team few weeks ago struggle hard with over cooling their nitro engine in turns. They have to cut water flow down over 90% because of it.

[T.S.Davis]

It's so fun. It's the people for sure. Can't say enough about the humans I've met racing. Doesn't seem to matter much where you go either. Just good people.

The oval does present it's own challenges. Hardest part is learning to drive small. Over compensation creates more problems than anything.

[Dirk Jan]

My take on running laps, being harder on your setup than straight running: when you turn your rudder, it basically creates major drag. The boat ideally wants to go straight, as the thrust from the prop is in-line (longitudinal) with the hull. The rudder forces the boat to change direction, and the added resistance puts more load on your setup.
As mentioned, the motor spins more continuous. Some boats can basically keep the throttle pinned throughout the oval running. Compare that with a sprint which may take 10 seconds and then the throttle is left off.

I like both disciplines and I am learning about the setup differences each time I take out my boats

[sammyha]

My take on running laps, being harder on your setup than straight running: when you turn your rudder, it basically creates major drag. The boat ideally wants to go straight, as the thrust from the prop is in-line (longitudinal) with the hull. The rudder forces the boat to change direction, and the added resistance puts more load on your setup.
As mentioned, the motor spins more continuous. Some boats can basically keep the throttle pinned throughout the oval running. Compare that with a sprint which may take 10 seconds and then the throttle is left off.

I like both disciplines and I am learning about the setup differences each time I take out my boats

I agree with all of this...

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[sammyha]

Deleted...

[sammyha]

Sammyha, check out the first page of the Lipo testing thread link below that has been running for more than a decade. These guys do yearly controlled load testing of a variety of packs due to the fact that C ratings are known to be marketing nonsense, and the maxAmps brand has been the running "joke" of the lipo world the entire decade they have been testing them. Thunder Power is also right there with them, and they have the same high price/garbage quality, preying upon the uninformed that will believe the marketing hype

They are bottom of the barrel, barely 15C garbage packs that are being sold at 2-3 X what far better lipo brands out there are sold for. The results on the first page are always kept up to date with the latest load testing, broken down into weight categories and what load each pack could handle without failing completely.

The Max Amps 5000 mAh pack lasted literally ONE second under a 125A load before the voltage sagged down to 3.7V per cell, and consistently comes into last place in their various testing. 125A currents are nothing for FE boats which usually average much higher currents. Compare that same 125A constant load test to an SMC pack that held for a whopping 71 seconds at that same load, and for less than half the MA pack cost!

https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...st-Comparisons


SMC is the current best performing lipo you can buy today, is US owned and based with actual customer service directly from the owner. Even "if" the MaxAmps was exactly as good as SMC (its nowhere close), you still paid 3 times as much as a same pack from SMC with much better performance would have cost you.

https://www.smc-racing.com/index.php...ry&path=67_119

I just got around to checking out the 2023 lipo ratings. Correct me if I'm wrong, I have the MaxAmps 5200mAh, 175C lipos and I'm seeing they are #5 on the list at 100 amps and #6 at 175 amps. That was on the first test that looked like weight vs output, not the overall comparison. They fall to #24 & #23 respectively on the overall comparison. Admittedly I don't fully understand those charts, but does that reflect my results? In layman's terms they have very good energy density?

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[Xrayted]

I just got around to checking out the 2023 lipo ratings. Correct me if I'm wrong, I have the MaxAmps 5200mAh, 175C lipos and I'm seeing they are #5 on the list at 100 amps and #6 at 175 amps. That was on the first test that looked like weight vs output, not the overall comparison. They fall to #24 & #23 respectively on the overall comparison. Admittedly I don't fully understand those charts, but does that reflect my results? In layman's terms they have very good energy density?

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Yes, the RCG guys do multiple charts/test score because there is no one thing that is most important to everyone. Some dont need huge amp capability and may be looking for the best energy density per gram of pack weight, or a host of other variables, so you can look through the charts and see what is most important to you. They typically only test the larger 5000 or so mAh packs because the author of that discussion and testing is a EDF jet guy, and they pull huge amps just like our boats do

So like him, most of us want packs that handle the excessive abuse the RC boats will place on a pack vs the 80 YO guys at the flying club just cruising around all day pulling no more than 10C on their planes. They will tell you ANY pack is fantastic because they dont stress them out enough to know any better. That's how Thunder Power managed to convince people to pay $200+ per pack for what were actually terrible quality lipos for years. There was no testing, and the old guys all swore by them because they didn't fly in any way to know any better

Your MaAmps 5200, 175C lipo took only 85 seconds at 100A load in testing to sag voltage down to 3.7V per cell, which is essentially a spent pack. 100A is nothing for FE boat! My smallest mono hits 300+ amp peaks all day long and averages current draw of 150A for the entire run, so a battery that can barely handle 100A for 80 seconds isn't going to cut it at all and wont even last a race.

We all should know that all lipos use inflated, fake C ratings but 175C!!!! Its a laughable joke far above any of the other vendors out there considering that would mean you could pull 910 amps according to their claims. The pack and its wiring would be molten lava, so their level of made up marking should be insulting to actual adults considering their primary target audience are teenage RC car guys.

I'm a RC heli guy too which can easily pull up in the 200A range, but not nearly as high current averages as boats do during the entire run. In that case a lighter pack high on the list of the 100-125 continuous range is more than enough for me, but I need a pack that is the biggest boss there is when it comes to handling high amps for my boats. and currently SMC has been #1 in that testing for the least couple years

Even if nothing else matters, just take a look at the packs on the charts that are right next to the MaX Amps values ands compare the prices of them. The Liperior Air pack from RCbattery.com tested pretty much identical to the MaxAmps pack performance wise, but it only cost $80 instead of $240

[sammyha]

Yes, the RCG guys do multiple charts/test score because there is no one thing that is most important to everyone. Some dont need huge amp capability and may be looking for the best energy density per gram of pack weight, or a host of other variables, so you can look through the charts and see what is most important to you. They typically only test the larger 5000 or so mAh packs because the author of that discussion and testing is a EDF jet guy, and they pull huge amps just like our boats do

So like him, most of us want packs that handle the excessive abuse the RC boats will place on a pack vs the 80 YO guys at the flying club just cruising around all day pulling no more than 10C on their planes. They will tell you ANY p[ack is fantastic because they dont stress them out enough to know any better.

Your MaAmps 5200, 175C lipo took only 85 seconds at 100A load in testing to fall down to 3.7V per cell, which is essentially a spent pack. The same test at 125A went flat in literally 1 second, placing it dead last on that list because the voltage essentially dropped to nothing almost instantly at that load. 125A is NOTHING for a FE boat, so that pack is going to die a very early death, and you got to pay $240 for the privilege.

My smallest mono pulls hits 300+ amp peaks all day long with and average current draw of 150A, so a battery that can barely handle 100A for 80 seconds isn't going to cut it at all, and we know that all lipos use inflated, fake C rating but 175C!!!! Its a laughable joke far above any of the other out there considering that would mean you could pull 910 amps according to their claims. The pack and its wiring would be molten lava, so their level of made up marking should be insulting to anyone that isnt 12 and just starting out in RC

Now look at the 150A test that the MA didn't survive to take the challenge, yet the SMC pack survived still in the #3 slot and continues to test even higher despite being only $80, and that is the point with their testing. You paid nearly three times as much for a pack that performs much worse than any other pack they tested at 125, because it failed immediately. It's really a garbage 20C or less pack, and that is exactly what they have tested to for more than decade now where they are consistently the worst performer, especially considering the ridiculous cost


I'm a RC heli guy too which can easily pull up in the 200A range, but not nearly as high current averages as boats do during the entire run. In that case a lighter pack high on the list of the 100-125 continuous range is more than enough for me, but I need a pack that is the biggest boss when it comes to handling high amps for my boats.

Again, thanks for the info. Yeah, I've only done short SAW runs with it, so have good results with that. I been shopping SMC lipos, prices are much lower...

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