Dr Super-Evil (Hydro 2) tuning

[Ivan Kozyakov]

Hi guys!


I have a boat Dr Super-Evil by Hydro&Marine. This is my first outrigger. The first tests showed a speed of 92 km/h and I would like to improve this result to 120 km/h. I will be glad to your advice.


Сurrent setup:


4082 2000Kv SSS motor
180A Seaking ESC
6s 5000mAh 100C battery (2*3s)
45mm 1.4 Tenshock prop
Weight with batteries 1980g.

[larryrose11]

With such a kigh KV motor, that is going to pull a lot of amps.
What brand of battery? the c ratings are worthless. I would look at the battery testing on the RC groups.
https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...st-Comparisons

Also, props are everything.
Consider an ABC propeller. For the same dia and pitch, the ABC Prop will outperform the CNC prop.

[Ivan Kozyakov]

Thanks for your reply. I use batteries almost new HRB and new Gaoneng.

After driving at maximum rpm the motor, ESC and battery are warm, no more than 50C degrees.

I also thought about replacing the prop with a better one. If I buy several props in which direction should I move? Larger or smaller diameter?

[larryrose11]

Get any of the top 4 batteries here, whatever will fit:
https://static.rcgroups.net/forums/a...%20Ranking.Jpg
If you don't see a speed boost from that, the batteries are not what slowing you down.

on Props, I like the ABC-xxxx-10-50 series props. "10" in this is the rake.
The other popular ABC props have a 15 deg rake, which tightens the thrust cone, and provides less lift.
Buy one from DasBota, on here. Great work.
The Dr Evil does not have a ski like the JAE, so it likely can benifit from more prop lift.
Larger prop will def move faster, but so will increasing the pitch
ABC 1816-10-50, (45.7 dia, 1.6 pitch) ) , or ABC 1818-10-50 (45.7 dia,1.8 pitch) will push it good!!

[Ivan Kozyakov]

Thank you. I will also practice sharpen and polishing the current CNC prop + rudder and see if there is any speed gain.

[Fluid]

The OP?s setup is drastically underperforming. This could be caused by any or a combination of the following

- poor battery output
- poor motor performance
- incorrect ESC setting
- poor alignment of the driveline
- inappropriate prop
- incorrect prop depth/angle
- incorrect CG position

A 45 mm diameter prop is too small for a 39? rigger, as demonstrated by the low speed and relatively low temperatures of the components. This is a high performance hydroplane, not a draggy mono. The current prop is not a modern design and its efficiency will be poor if over-spun. I would start with a 50-52 mm two-bladed prop having a pitch ratio of 1.4 to 1.5. This should give ample speed, but watch out for higher temps - any in the above list could help to spike temps so check after one minute if running. Max temp should not exceed 50*C after one minute of mostly full-throttle running. Use a timer.

Let us know how it works out.



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[Ivan Kozyakov]

The OP?s setup is drastically underperforming. This could be caused by any or a combination of the following

- poor battery output
- poor motor performance
- incorrect ESC setting
- poor alignment of the driveline
- inappropriate prop
- incorrect prop depth/angle
- incorrect CG position

Dear Fluid,

- poor battery output - yes, I will try anoter new pack
- poor motor performance - the motor is new and even too powerful for this model as i think
- incorrect ESC setting - do you mean timing?
- poor alignment of the driveline - the flex shaft is installed with a minimum bend, it rotates easily
- inappropriate prop - agree
- incorrect prop depth/angle - strictly according to the H&M recommendations, but I will test other options
- incorrect CG position - now its at 25% from skids end to transom. This is already more than requires H&M, but I will try even more.

[vvviivvv]

Just for reference... here is the same hull doing 2x the speed... it does have Saw sponsons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxHsYSLvqNY

[Ivan Kozyakov]

Just for reference... here is the same hull doing 2x the speed... it does have Saw sponsons.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FxHsYSLvqNY

Yes, I understand potential of this hull so why i have started the thread
Saw sponsons it's the next part of this project.

[larryrose11]

Ivan,
Sorry to lead you down the wrong path on the Prop size.
Follow what Fluid says, something 50-52 mm two-bladed prop having a pitch ratio of 1.4 to 1.5.
At the same time, the ABC props are more efficient than the CNC prop of similar size and pitch. They have yielded more speed compared with a similar CNC Prop

[NativePaul]

I have one of these, its 900mm, or just under 36" including the H&M sponson extensions, has quite a lot of aero lift, and isn't very heavy, it doesn't take as much pushing as a 39" hydro made for sprint racing will, 45mm is the prop we typically race these on.

I run mine on 6s 1500kv and an ABC 1815-45-17 for about 100kph with 6 minute races on 120Wh of energy. Tenshocks are decent props and a more common setup for it would be 1650kv with a Tenshock 45 for similar speeds, power, and efficiency.

It is undeperforming though considering the lower speeds with the higher KV and the same prop, I think you could get a lot more from basic setup changes, I gained a lot of speed from mine by raising the strut (flat on a setup board with the top of the strut about 3mm below the tub) and increasing the AoA on the sponsons (not sure how high an angle, but I had to mod the boom extensions to get it high enough. I also have a ski now, but that was not a huge difference like the strut and AoA was.

Batteries would be my other thought 100C batteries dont exist so we know their quoted C rate is BS, try tuning the setup and if that doesnt get you where you want to be follow Larry's advice and get some that test well from the guys on RCGroups.

[Ivan Kozyakov]

Ivan,
Sorry to lead you down the wrong path on the Prop size.
Follow what Fluid says, something 50-52 mm two-bladed prop having a pitch ratio of 1.4 to 1.5.
At the same time, the ABC props are more efficient than the CNC prop of similar size and pitch. They have yielded more speed compared with a similar CNC Prop

larryrose11, thank you for your attention to this thread. I like your idea about ABC props (and I heard it from other sportsmans) that ABC props with higher pitch will lift the transom which hydro boats need.
I have already ordered a new copy of the ABС Prop (1817) and if the results are good I will order the original. https://aliexpress.ru/item/100500336...00026112986647
I will check both options

[larryrose11]

As Paul pointed out, if you looking to go fast, sponsons with less areo lift may be desired.
You can make your own that are narrower than the current design, or contact Cedric Lefebvre on the FB group Rc Offshore Saw. He sold a twin kit of that same tub with different sponsons.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1937681899859203

[Ivan Kozyakov]

I think you could get a lot more from basic setup changes, I gained a lot of speed from mine by raising the strut (flat on a setup board with the top of the strut about 3mm below the tub) and increasing the AoA on the sponsons (not sure how high an angle, but I had to mod the boom extensions to get it high enough. I also have a ski now, but that was not a huge difference like the strut and AoA was.

NativePaul, yes, setting up the strut and sponsons is the first thing I'll do. Thanks for your advice.

[larryrose11]

larryrose11, thank you for your attention to this thread. I like your idea about ABC props (and I heard it from other sportsmans) that ABC props with higher pitch will lift the transom which hydro boats need.
I have already ordered a new copy of the ABС Prop (1817) and if the results are good I will order the original. https://aliexpress.ru/item/100500336...00026112986647
I will check both options

its the prop thrust cone that affect the prop lift. Since the props are surfacing, only part of the thrust cone is in the water.
A lower rake angle makes a wider thrust cone, and more lift.
The converse is true.
ABC Props:
For example a 1817-10-50(2) CLL breaks down like this.
1.8 is the diameter in inches.
1.7 Pitch Radio
10-RAKE ANGLE
50-BLADE AREA RATIO
(2)-NUMBER OF BLADES
CL-CLEAVER OR CP-CHOPPER
L-LEFT ROTATION OR R-RIGHT ROTATION

rake angle of 10 has more lift than a rake angle of 17.
I like the 10 degrees of rake for single riggers without a ski.

[Ivan Kozyakov]

As Paul pointed out, if you looking to go fast, sponsons with less areo lift may be desired.
You can make your own that are narrower than the current design, or contact Cedric Lefebvre on the FB group Rc Offshore Saw. He sold a twin kit of that same tub with different sponsons.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1937681899859203

Yes, I am planning new sponsons and will make them myself. But if you have a photo or an example drawing I will be grateful.

[Ivan Kozyakov]

I gained a lot of speed from mine by raising the strut (flat on a setup board with the top of the strut about 3mm below the tub) and increasing the AoA on the sponsons (not sure how high an angle, but I had to mod the boom extensions to get it high enough. I also have a ski now, but that was not a huge difference like the strut and AoA was.

NativePaul, if I understood you correctly, did you lift the strut higher (not 13mm as in H&M the photo, but 10mm)?Krabs_Tech_002.jpg

I have now set the angle of the sponsons to 1.5? and I am already afraid that the boat will take off like an airplane . Do you recommend a larger angle?

[NativePaul]

That mr Krabs does look like about where I have it on my dr super evil. For 100kph for sure you want a lot more than 1.5 degrees of AoA, I'm pretty sure mine has over 6. My SAWs boats have 3, but these are not the sponsons you want for SAWs.

I was getting very inconsistent performance and found that my strut was moving slightly in use, the teardrop strut suffers from a small contact patch against the "bracket" gluing a sheet of emery paper back to back, and putting it between the strut and bracket fixed that.

[Ivan Kozyakov]

Guys, please explain where the СG should be located in his Hydro-2 boat? I am targeting 25% between floats and propeller but is this correct?

[Ivan Kozyakov]

Guys, please explain where the СG should be located in his Hydro-2 boat? I am targeting 25% between floats and propeller but is this correct?

If someone interested in this question i have the answer from Hydro&Marine about CG:

Zuschneiden.jpg

[Ivan Kozyakov]

Can someone please explain the difference between a bent, rounded and straight turnfins?

[Ivan Kozyakov]

Hi guys!


I made some adjustments to the СG and sponsons and ran a series of tests on the new propellers:

- 45mm/1.4 Tenshock prop - very slow
- 46/1.9 ABC copy - 129 kmh
- 48/1.9 ABC copy - 134 kmh

The motor 4082 2000Kv SSS is warm, looks like I can load it more.

But 180A Seaking ESC hot very fast on 46mm and 48mm prop. Impossible to hold by hand. Cooling works well, I always see a fountain of water. Does it make sense to install a second cooling circuit or is this the limit for this ESC?
6s 100c battery pack.

[Fluid]

My guess - based on not actually seeing the OP?s setup - is that the ESC is at its limit. This is probably due to overloading the motor, his calculated rpm with the 48 mm prop is around 29,000 yet that motor is better suited for 35,000 to 40,000 rpm. The reasons for the low rpm/high amp draw include a low-efficiency motor (poor materials or magnets damaged by excessive heat), too much prop, boat running too wet, or excessive driveline drag. Alternately, inadequate batteries with high voltage drop (don?t believe claims of 100C), the wiring between the ESC and the batteries is too long/poor quality/poor connectors, or poor soldering. This stresses the ESC and will overheat it. If the OP cannot hold the ESC in his hand it is probably not long for this world if he doesn?t reduce the stress on it.




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[Ivan Kozyakov]

My guess - based on not actually seeing the OP?s setup - is that the ESC is at its limit. This is probably due to overloading the motor, his calculated rpm with the 48 mm prop is around 29,000 yet that motor is better suited for 35,000 to 40,000 rpm. The reasons for the low rpm/high amp draw include a low-efficiency motor (poor materials or magnets damaged by excessive heat), too much prop, boat running too wet, or excessive driveline drag. Alternately, inadequate batteries with high voltage drop (don?t believe claims of 100C), the wiring between the ESC and the batteries is too long/poor quality/poor connectors, or poor soldering. This stresses the ESC and will overheat it. If the OP cannot hold the ESC in his hand it is probably not long for this world if he doesn?t reduce the stress on it.
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If I understand you correctly, if I want to save current setup (6s, 2000Kv, 180A ESC) the only way is a smaller prop and lower speed?

And if I want to continue to increase speed, then I need a new ESC? As I said the motor feels good, warm.
I already looked at the Flier ESCs, but they are quite heavy (400g).

As you advised, I will check all the contacts and corners and etc. But this is a completely new boat (motor, esc, lipos), there should be no hidden defects.

This boat drives so well I want only increase my results