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Thread: Rough water capability

  1. #1
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    Default Rough water capability

    I'm looking for a platform that can operate at 50knots in 3' waves. Any ideas ?
    My current thinking is low buoyancy and surface piercing.

  2. #2
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    Your going to need a big Deep V mono. Smaller monos you'll lose in the swells between the waves. Granted I'm use to Lake Ontario where 3 foot wave will beat on 1:1 boats . Where are you planning on running it ?

  3. #3
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    I got a few SeaDoo's and it wouldn't be too hard to turn one into an RC SeaDoo. Don't know the legal side of doing one on the water but it would be fun.

  4. #4
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    DSC_0907 (1).jpgThis is where I started. 60" Bonzi, fast but very unstable in any sea state other than dead calm.
    Note payload launcher integrated into deck.
    Interesting question, where do I intend operating it ? You name it, port security or any contested waterways.
    Has anyone ever built a shallow running high performance UUV ?
    Sea doo is probably too large. My ideal platform is less than 50 lbs and small enough to hand launch.

  5. #5
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    Default

    So what is your intent with this boat ? 50 LBS?

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    The intent is to find or develop a boat that weighs less than 50lbs ( including 10lbs payload ) can run at 50 knots in 3' waves and has a range of two to three miles. Simple :)

  7. #7
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    Sorry that's not a hobby grade RC. That would be something the military or terrorist would use. The Military have contractors that already have that tech.

  8. #8
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    You would be surprised how much innovation comes from "men in sheds". If you look at the unmanned underwater vehicle market most of the companies grew from a garage to a point where they bought up by a defense prime such as BAE or GD. As a defense contractor myself ( a very small one ) I find talking to "hobbyists" a great source of knowledge. As to the tech already existing; I have not seen a surface or subsurface running solution.

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  10. #10
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    So you want to build an Rc boat that will do 60 mph in 3' waves? Are you intending to do electric power?
    Getting a large mono to run well at 60 mph on flat water is one thing, in 3' waves, that is a recipe for disaster. You need to start small and build up experience to achieve anything close. then you have to consider insurance/liability issues with a large rc boat.
    It's all very well to dream, but the realities can bring you back to earth pretty hard.
    With 3' waves, how about an rc surfer?
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

  11. #11
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    Hi Peter. Good points. I am intending to use electric power and I agree that it is a challenge. Can you tell me more about an RC surfer?
    I have two concepts that I'm looking to explore further.
    1 A low buoyancy surfboard type vessel that can duck through the waves. Probably with twin jet drives.
    2 A super-cavitating shallow running UUV with counter rotating props on the nose, looks a little like an AIM 9 sidewinder missile. Based broadly on this :
    https://www.businessinsider.com/juli...t-boat-2016-11
    I do worry about communication data rates with something submerged.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maritime View Post
    Hi Peter. Good points. I am intending to use electric power and I agree that it is a challenge. Can you tell me more about an RC surfer?
    I have two concepts that I'm looking to explore further.
    1 A low buoyancy surfboard type vessel that can duck through the waves. Probably with twin jet drives.
    2 A super-cavitating shallow running UUV with counter rotating props on the nose, looks a little like an AIM 9 sidewinder missile. Based broadly on this :
    https://www.businessinsider.com/juli...t-boat-2016-11
    I do worry about communication data rates with something submerged.
    Just google rc surfer.
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

  13. #13
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    I do not believe a model boat under 1m will handle 3' waves at 50 knots. Maybe a 2m hull or something the size of a sitdown jet-ski. A lot will depend on the frequency and shape of the wave. You will probably want to look at modern offshore v-hull powerboats with self righting capability. Outside of the hull type, the power system will be very difficult. You did not mention the mission duration, but any system will likely need 20-50hp depending on the weight and hull drag. An electric power system will only be able to run at this level for minutes maybe less and be very expensive.
    Tyler Garrard
    NAMBA 639/IMPBA 20525
    T-Hydro @ 142.94mph former WR

  14. #14
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    DSC_0047 (2).jpgTyler, Many thanks for your input. The range I'm looking for is up to 2 miles so 3 minutes max.
    I do have a UAV ( see photo ) to deliver the same payload but piloting, airspace issues and visibility to bad guys are all hurdles.
    My budget for a production system is less than $4000 per unit. In an ideal world it would be bio-degradable.

  15. #15
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    Offshore power boats are deep Vs and have issues doing 50 knots in 2 meter (6') waves. This is a picture of a 35' deep V in those seas at around 30 knots. That's a 10,000 boat several feet out of the water. Wave piercing reduces these problems. Hydrofoils are another solution, but getting a model size boat that far out of the water isn't possible. Fifty knots is at the upper range of operation for non cavitating foils. A combination might be best.

    Lohring Miller

    H9 action 09.jpg

    https://iflysail.com/

  16. #16
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    sindwinder tidy.jpgThese were my thoughts, both wave piercing or shallow running underwater. One with twin jet drives the other counter rotating super cavitating props. The payload bay takes up the rear two thirds of the body.

  17. #17
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    Submarines are immune to waves. However, water is 800 times as dense as air so the drag of objects in water is 800 times that if the same object in air. Test this by sticking your hand out your car window and then into water at the same speed. That's why the fastest boats try to have as little surface in the water as possible. Waves, of course get more surface wet and greatly increase drag. Wave making resistance is only a significant factor in heavy boats at speeds in knots around the square root of their length in feet. Model size boats are so far beyond this speed that wave making is insignificant. The drag is nearly all from skin friction.

    Hydrofoils would be the choice if cavitation wasn't a factor. Planing surfaces tend to be the lowest drag beyond that. That's why hydroplanes use air lift coupled with planing surfaces. The ultimate solution in this direction is a wing in ground effect vehicle. If you don't need a water propeller, that may be a good solution.

    Lohring Miller

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3heh...oWRj1m5DRn4CNx

  18. #18
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    I wrote a post when this first appeared. And then forgot to hit the button that sends it. ( getting old ) . To do what you want you are going to need a
    27' to 35' deep V offshore hull powered by 2 or 3 400 hp outboard motors,
    or even something like Lohring posted, looks like a full on offshore racer.
    A submarine isn't going to do 50 knots, or even anywhere near. And very few model boats will survive 3' waves at any speed, even stationary. While it may be fun to dream, and contemplate the impossible I think your idea has about as much chance as flying a model R-C airplane to the Moon.

  19. #19
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    Lohring, I do like WIGs but the effect is only good for about 1.5 wingspans so small versions would need flat water.

    Pancho, I needed that encouragement. I'm sure you know that the Russian Shkval torpedo will do 200 knots with the aid of cavitation and a rocket.

    I intend to check out front mounted supercavitation props. They seemed to work well on the Ghost boat.

  20. #20
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    I also don't believe that 50 knots in 3ft waves is possible for a 50lb craft, It is not a close run thing either, I think you are at least an order of magnitude out on the size and weight to make that sea keeping a possibility.

    The Shkval also weighs near 3 tons and is 27 feet long, not unusually large for a torpedo (which more typically have the performance you are looking for) but definitely not hand launchable.

    Also high speed water craft aren't particularly stealthy, when a drone flys at our boat races the boats totally drown out the noise of the drones, and while it may be easier to camouflage a boat than a drone, when moving and especially when moving at speed boats leave a long white trail of aerated water behind them making the not only very easy to spot, but very easy to tell the direction of their travel, so would be easier to target, intercept or avoid.
    Last edited by NativePaul; 09-21-2022 at 10:30 AM.
    Paul Upton-Taylor, Greased Weasel Racing.

  21. #21
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    If you look through all the WIG videos, you will notice that he spends a lot of time trying to keep them from becoming an airplane. Since all airplanes can work in ground effect, the distinction gets fuzzy. Everything depends on what you are really trying to accomplish. Flying boats depended on ground effect to get airborne. The only advantage of operating in ground effect is lower drag and less power for a given load. What's the operational difference between the two vehicles below?

    Lohring Miller

    https://www.navalnews.com/naval-news...-u-s-military/
    https://us.bremont.com/blogs/blogboo...s-spruce-goose

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    You say you want to carry a 10 lb. payload about 2 miles at a very high rate of speed. Are you trying to sink a vessel or ship? And if so, WHOSE. The fact that you start talking about Russian torpedoes this whole thing is starting to make me feel a little uneasy and suspicious.

  23. #23
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    This is why I backed out of this thread . Don't want to be helping a potential enemy of the US or one of our allies.

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    From his profile:
    "I work with Navy warfare centers to develop non-lethal systems to defeat surface and subsurface threats. Looking to develop new deployment platforms."

    Lohring Miller
    PS During the cold war in the 1960s I worked at Electric Boat.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by lohring View Post
    From his profile:
    "I work with Navy warfare centers to develop non-lethal systems to defeat surface and subsurface threats. Looking to develop new deployment platforms."

    Lohring Miller
    PS During the cold war in the 1960s I worked at Electric Boat.
    Well, if its in his profile..its gotta be true.

  26. #26
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    What is the payload?

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