America, what have you done?

[sjslhill]

your exactly correct.....I corrected it above to state re-taking over America

Mexicans taking over America? actually the Mexicans once had claim to America as Indians and then before them Eskimos then before them as Asians (actually Mongolian and Russian Asians, because India is also in Asia) before them all via the Bering Straits. Seems like it's coming full circle to me.

[AndyKunz]

Well, it looks like WHO is going to be you and I; and WHEN is going to be now.

I think it's more like "us, and our children and grandchildren" (and I would not be irresponsible to add "unto the 3rd and 4th generation").

Andy

[sjslhill]

Only God can get us out of this mess we created.......man cannot.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Only God can get us out of this mess we created.......man cannot.

Sorry, I am always curious about this. Why would God care enough to get us out of a mess if He did not care enough to stop us from getting into the mess in the first place??

Sort of like why does God save victims of an automobile or airliner crash rather than simply stopping the crash in the first place??

If the point was to allow some to perish, why put all those innocent people through such an ordeal?

Almost seems like God enjoys watching us have problems.

[sjslhill]

1. God did not get us into this mess, we did. It's all in the bible, try reading it.
2. Do not try to understand God's plan, just accept it
3. You cannot improve without facing some problems

Started on what? You have no faith in God?

[Doby]

God creats man,,,,man creats mess,,,,,,,,man attempts to fix mess,,,,,,,God shakes head thinking man was probably not the best idea in the first place........God goes on an extended vacation to ponder the next move.

[Bill-SOCAL]

You did not answer my question.

I asked why he let it happen. If only He can help us now why did He let it happen in the first place?

[sjslhill]

The next move was made 2009 years ago, many men chose to ignore that plan. God is not on vacation, when was the last time you spent 10 mins. trying to talk to God?

God creats man,,,,man creats mess,,,,,,,,man attempts to fix mess,,,,,,,God shakes head thinking man was probably not the best idea in the first place........God goes on an extended vacation to ponder the next move.

[sjslhill]

I don't know Bill....my suggestion is try to be ready at all times for the end.

You did not answer my question.

I asked why he let it happen. If only He can help us now why did He let it happen in the first place?

[sjslhill]

I'll pray for you Bill, I mean that! Glad we had this opportunity of discussion.

[sjslhill]

Recall Notice
The Maker of all human beings is recalling all units manufactured, regardless of make or year, due to a serious defect in the primary and central component of the heart. This is due to a malfunction in the original prototype units, code named Adam and Eve, resulting in the reproduction of the same defect in all subsequent units. This defect has been technically termed "Subsequential Internal Non-Morality," or more commonly known as S.I.N. , as it is primarily expressed.

Some other symptoms include:

1. Loss of direction
2. Foul vocal emissions
3. Amnesia of origin
4. Lack of peace and joy
5. Selfish or violent behavior
6. Depression or confusion in the mental component
7. Fearfulness
8. Idolatry
9. Rebellion

The Manufacturer, who is neither liable nor at fault for this defect, is providing factory-authorized repair and service free of charge to correct this SIN defect. The Repair Technician, Jesus, has most generously offered to bear the entire burden of the staggering cost of these repairs. There is no additional fee required.

The number to call for repair in all areas is: P-R-A-Y-E-R. Once connected, please upload your burden of SIN through the REPENTANCE procedure. Next, download ATONEMENT from the Repair Technician, Jesus, into the heart component. No matter how big or small the SIN defect is, Jesus will replace it with:

1. Love
2. Joy
3. Peace
4. Patience
5. Kindness
6. Goodness
7. Faithfulness
8. Gentleness
9. Self control

Please see the operating manual, the B.I.B.L.E (Basic Instructions Before Leaving Earth) for further details on the use of these fixes.

WARNING: Continuing to operate the human being unit without correction voids any manufacturer warranties, exposing the unit to dangers and problems too numerous to list and will result in the human unit being permanently impounded.

DANGER: The human being units not responding to this recall action will have to be scrapped in the furnace. The SIN defect will not be permitted to enter Heaven so as to prevent contamination of that facility.


Thank you for your attention!
GOD

Please assist where possible by notifying others of this important recall notice, and you may contact the Father any time by "knee-mail.'

[AndyKunz]

Excellent posting, Steve. Thanks!

Now to Bill's questions:

Sorry, I am always curious about this. Why would God care enough to get us out of a mess if He did not care enough to stop us from getting into the mess in the first place??

For the same reason that we as parents allow our kids to learn bad things from experience. Sometimes people are hard-headed and only learn things the hard way. For instance, I got an e-mail from my sister today. They have been telling their young adult son not to drive so fast. Guess what, he got a ticket that could have cost him his license. It cost him $650 to get a lawyer and plead guilty to a lesser charge. Now he's driving slower.

Sort of like why does God save victims of an automobile or airliner crash rather than simply stopping the crash in the first place??

Every human has an appointment with death (Job 7:1, Hebrews 9:27, and many others). It's just that those folks have a different appointment than others. Why do bad things happen? The whole book of Job is written to explain that, but it boils down to a) it is God's will, b) God gets more glory, and c) it is all the result of sin.

If the point was to allow some to perish, why put all those innocent people through such an ordeal?

Because it gives God glory. Some will come thru the experience thankful for Divine Providence (where Rhode Island got the name for its capital), while others will at the Great White Throne Judgment give God the glory then.

Almost seems like God enjoys watching us have problems.

No more than you enjoy watching your children dowse themselves with gasoline and play with matches. Actually, far, far less because of His great love.

The problems we face are not God's doing - they are the natural results of disobedience. Sometimes our disobedience affects the innocents.

As for natural disasters, the entire universe is under a curse because of Adam's disobedience. The Bible tells us that all creation "groans" until the time when it is made anew (at least 1007 years in the future from when I'm typing this).

Andy

[sjslhill]

Thanks Andy! good stuff!

[sjslhill]

Now I have a question

"at least 1007 years in the future from when I'm typing this"

Please explain this one to me.

[ghostofpf1]

If gawd exists ( He doesn't AFAIC) he has a sick sense of humor
Steve

[AndyKunz]

Now I have a question

"at least 1007 years in the future from when I'm typing this"

Please explain this one to me.

7 years of Great Tribulation + 1000 years of Millenial Reign of Christ.

Then there is a new heaven and new earth (Rev 21:1).

Andy

[sjslhill]

Ah yes, I agree....we are very near it now. Do you believe in the rapture?

[Doby]

Doesn't the calander run out in 2012???

Clock's ticking!

[Punisher 67]

Yes John this is about the 15th end of the world prediction , there will be plenty more after 2012 , can you say fanatics....................

[Doby]

15 so far,,,wow,,,were any of them correct

Food for thought,,,,,,

Suppose, ,,just suppose that someone many years ago decided to write a really cool book,,base it loosley on some facts from that time and some of the characters on some actual people,,,added some sci fi special effects content (whatever that could be at that time, "water parting" etc), added some carnal knowledge content,,,,,,some religion etc.... and decided on a neat name, oh lets say "The Bible" and it became a best seller over the ages.

Now suppose,,,(again just suppose) that it was written strictly for people's entertainment at the time and was blown WAY out of proportion in its interpretation by many......... and the truth was now suddenly found out about its true origins and intent....what would happen???

[Bill-SOCAL]

So God is looking a little down and Gabriel asks what's the matter.

God says he feels a like he needs a break.

So Gabriel suggests taking a vacation. Maybe a trip to Earth...

To which God responds.


"Are you kidding me??!! . Nothing but a bunch of busy bodies down there. Went there 2,000 years ago and had a fling with a cute little Jewish girl, and they are STILL talking about it"!!

[RCprince]

F.E.A.R ... False Events Appearing Real.

and the dish ran away with the spoon.

[Bill-SOCAL]

Ah yes, I agree....we are very near it now. Do you believe in the rapture?

I recall back in 1987 when the Moronic, oops, I mean the "Harmonic" Convergence, was supposed to happen in Sedona among other places. Nothing happened besides building another store to sell crystal pyramids to tourists. All the "believers" remained after the prescribed departure time. Somebody has to sell the trinkets after all.

Go figure. Maybe next time.

[Steven Vaccaro]

Only God can get us out of this mess we created.......man cannot.

I believe God can not literally come down and save us.

To many people have no care for what they do while they are alive because they have no fear of what happens after death. I was not brought up to have a strong belief in God, because my parents didn't take us to Church. But now as I see my children growing up and going to Church on a regular basis, I see that its working for them and now me.

[sjslhill]

Go ahead and scoff at it, maybe you can be left behind for tribulation, good luck with that one. It may not happen for 1,000 more years but the bible tells us to be ready at all time, in both books.

Yes I know, to most of you the bible is a collection of fiction. Yup, that's it, fiction. Don't bet on that.

Your going to one of two places, the lake of fire or to eternal life with God in heaven...I hope and pray the 2nd for all of us

[Bill-SOCAL]

To many people have no care for what they do while they are alive because they have no fear of what happens after death.

And this is precisely the problem for me. So the main tool that the All Loving God has to control your actions is Fear? This makes less than zero sense to me. But it does hit directly to the basis of most Christian faith, the idea that people are incapable of knowing what is right and wrong without fear of retribution from a higher being. This is the central theme to the story of Adam and Eve and the concept of Original Sin.

The main issue is that the concept that morality cannot exist independent of belief in a monotheistic Christian God figure. This is of course wrong. Look at how often we see extremely religious people who have no moral compass at all. The BTK killer was a minister for example.

Then take for instance Ghandi. Few would argue that he was not a moral man, and yet he developed his moral code outside of a religion that relies on fear to do so.

Then consider that there are slightly more than 6 billion people on the planet and about 2 billion are Christian. Most of those other people have beliefs that are not centered on fear of the afterlife as a means of controlling behavior in the here and now.

I understand the need and place for religion. It can give comfort, a sense of belonging, and a way of coping with the unknown. Where I have issue is when people try to use their religious beliefs to influence others who do not hold the same beliefs, as is so common with the Christian religion here in the US. There was a very good reason that the Founding Fathers developed a concept of separation of Church and State. They understood only too well the dangers of allowing the two to intermingle.

In the end for me it is immaterial if there is an afterlife and it does not control what I do. What matters are the choices you make in your daily life and doing the right thing is not by necessity contingent upon fearing what will happen when your Father gets home as it were.

[Doby]

Oh,,I'll probably regret saying this but,,,,wouldn't the world be a much more peaceful place if religion didn't exist......it is after all the basis for many of the wars fought over the ages.

Something tells me that the almighty probably wasn't intending that to happen...no matter what the faith.

[Punisher 67]

............No John you shouldn't

...................Well put BILL

There have been more deaths in the name of religion over the past 2000 years than all other things combined , wars , crusades , conversions , witch burnings , people boiled alive , tortures , etc . either you see it the religious way and believe or parish in the name of God , Allah , Buddha , whatever . Religion even controlled astronomy in its infancy , many feared documenting there findings for fear of severe reprisal or death from the church . How many north and south American native communities living in piece were wiped out in the name of the church hundreds of years ago , And I can go on and on and on .

How many faiths on TV just send $$$$$$$$$$$ and you to will be saved

I have high regards for anyone going to church supporting there faith bettering themselves morally and giving there children an early sense of religious direction , but when you start to shove it down my throat with this end if time $hit and burning in eternal hell now we have an issue . Why because I do not go to church I must obviously be a bad person warranting that fate , so my years of being a decent person , a good father/Grandfather , helping others every way that I can accounts for nothing . Is that the way it is , I do believe in a supreme being with all the beauty and complexity of this world , plants , insects , reptiles , animals , scenery how could this all of sprung from nothing , even the solar system and everything out there you have to wonder if there is some sort of intelligent design at work or greater , My extremist religious Friends tell me other than earth there is nothing else out there living . If thats the case that is an awful waste of space , In my opinion thats a pretty arrogant closed minded comment and I wonder where they got that idea from

Here is some food for thought , according to the certain religions beliefs man has existed on earth for 7000 some odd years give or take correct me if I am wrong , and when asked God has been here all eternity , now if eternity is this long 1000,000,000,000,000,000 what was God doing the last 999,999,999,999,993,000 years

Ok I'll step down off my soap box now........................

[sjslhill]

Shove it down your throat? Thanks for pointing that out, that's not my intention.

I am really understanding Fast Electric boating more now and what drives it's direction.

thanks to all,

God Bless You.

Steve

[Punisher 67]

Before we go any further I will take that one back I didn't mean to point it at you directly....... , but there are those out there that do

Now what does Fast Electric Boating have to do with religion