Has a worthy ESC been born? The Castle XLX2 looks to be an excellent ESC.

[Peter A]

Hi Guys
Sorry for my ignorance, but where would someone in NZ or Aussie buy these Castle esc's from?
Thanks.

[Panther6834]

That Castle "advisory" also applies to early production MMX-8S ESCs. It primarily applied to motors above a certain kV, and to 'D' wind motors (such as those commonly used in SAW boats, and speed-run cars). All of the currently-produced XLX2 & MMX-8S ESCs have had the 'problem' removed. At the same time, to Castle was never specific as to what, exactly, the problem was.

I had one of the early MMX-8S ESCs, which I bought as an ESC/motors combo (and a somewhat-lower kV motor, at that). Whatever the 'problem' was, more only did it cause permanent damage to the ESC, but it also damaged the motor. However, in typically spectacular Castle customer service fashion, they replaced the ESC, repaired the motor, and got everything shipped back to me in less than two weeks.

It's a shame that this problem happened in the first place...especially considered in marred initial opinion on these two new ESCs...but, considering how quickly the problem was discovered, and how quickly Castle was in announcing/reporting the problem publicly, and getting corrections in place (in manufacturing, as well as in replacing defective ESCs, and repairing damaged motors), I continue to be EXTREMELY happy with Castle. Customer service at this level is something Hobbywing could (probably) never do.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[LibertyMKiii]

That Castle "advisory" also applies to early production MMX-8S ESCs. It primarily applied to motors above a certain kV, and to 'D' wind motors (such as those commonly used in SAW boats, and speed-run cars). All of the currently-produced XLX2 & MMX-8S ESCs have had the 'problem' removed. At the same time, to Castle was never specific as to what, exactly, the problem was.

I had one of the early MMX-8S ESCs, which I bought as an ESC/motors combo (and a somewhat-lower kV motor, at that). Whatever the 'problem' was, more only did it cause permanent damage to the ESC, but it also damaged the motor. However, in typically spectacular Castle customer service fashion, they replaced the ESC, repaired the motor, and got everything shipped back to me in less than two weeks.

It's a shame that this problem happened in the first place...especially considered in marred initial opinion on these two new ESCs...but, considering how quickly the problem was discovered, and how quickly Castle was in announcing/reporting the problem publicly, and getting corrections in place (in manufacturing, as well as in replacing defective ESCs, and repairing damaged motors), I continue to be EXTREMELY happy with Castle. Customer service at this level is something Hobbywing could (probably) never do.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

I have a friend who has burned up 6 motors with the MMX8s and his XLX2 never burnt up any motors. I ran the first batch MMX8s with a TP4050 3840kv D wind regularly pulling over 400a and never had any issues burning up motors although the punishment I was putting it through should have. I cannot really figure out why one would do this and the other not other than a defective unit.

Castle's service is 2nd to none in this RC industry. I feel that is a safe move to buy direct from them also versus eBay or something as they may not recognize the sale as "new" versus "used", and better chance of getting new stock versus an old unit sitting on some guys shelf that he is selling now months/years later.

[LibertyMKiii]

Tested my XLX2 (still with air cooling) over the weekend in a vintage 42" Deep Vee.
I ran it on 4s with a TP4070 (40x107mm) motor

I purposely was abusive to it running up to full throttle in 1.5 seconds and made 6 back to back high speed full throttle passes all within 1 minutes time.
The prop is a x447 modified to 1.63 pitch and speeds were 48 mph per the GPS.
The ESC fan never kicked on and never broke a sweat.
No way this hull would stay planted on 8s running 80+ mph so this setup will have to be moved to my rigger build

[zooma]

Glad to hear that. Can't read anything on the graph. What was max current draw?

[LibertyMKiii]

Glad to hear that. Can't read anything on the graph. What was max current draw?

This forums image function really sucks, I updated the image to fit the pixel count restriction and should be more visible now. It was only 215 amp peak and settled down to 170a after 3-4 seconds at full throttle.
Last night I switched from the 1.63 pitch 47mm prop to a 1.7 pitch 60mm prop. I am planning to take it back out and try my best to give it a hard time to see how it handles the heavier amperage load.

I'll report back after making those runs and attempt to post the logs.

[NativePaul]

Last night I switched from the 1.63 pitch 47mm prop to a 1.7 pitch 60mm prop..

Are you sure? That is a BIG jump!

[zooma]

This forums image function really sucks, I updated the image to fit the pixel count restriction and should be more visible now. It was only 215 amp peak and settled down to 170a after 3-4 seconds at full throttle.
Last night I switched from the 1.63 pitch 47mm prop to a 1.7 pitch 60mm prop. I am planning to take it back out and try my best to give it a hard time to see how it handles the heavier amperage load.

I'll report back after making those runs and attempt to post the logs.

much better, thanks

[LibertyMKiii]

Are you sure? That is a BIG jump!

The sole purpose is to give the ESC hell and see how it handles it. I want to see it run with higher amp loads and determine how it goes.
I know how this would play out with cars and gearing changes, but propellers and amp loads are new experiences for me. Plus the ESC is living in a sealed hull versus more fresh air in a RC car scenario. (thus the potential need for watercooling)

The previous test was a peak of 215a and peak speed that load settled down to around 170a. That is a walk in the park for the XLX2.

[NativePaul]

Fair enough.

Just in case you didn't know gearing up on a car is more like increasing the pitch of a prop while keeping the same diameter. A 60mm prop will have a large increase in the traction and drag compared to a 47mm prop from the added blade area, on top of the gearing effect from the extra pitch.

Personally I like to step up prop sizes in much smaller increments to minimise risk to my gear, but I wish you success, and I will be very interested to see your data.

[donhuff]

215 peak? I'll bet ya that the XLX2 wont even turn the fan on at that amount.

[LibertyMKiii]

Follow up to my prior post.

I ran the Octura 1760 prop last night. I believe it is an M series? I know it has little to no rake and my mono didn't like the prop. I would describe this prop as a pig, which was perfect for my stress test on the ESC and motor. This test loaded the ESC/Motor with 307 amps and both took it well. I only cleaned up the casting marks, sharpened the leading edge and balanced it. I will continue to modify this prop, but purposely wanted a baseline with low efficiency - high stress setup for this test. I was expecting around 320 amps and got 307

I after several passes that go beyond what I show in the logs screen shot, I was able to get the ESC fan to kick on for a short bit. Temps reached closer to 120 F, which is still amazing. The motor (TP 4070 1700kv (40x107mm) was in the 95 to 110 F range. I suppose the water cooling is working well on the motor.

Speed peaked at 53 mph and it was clear this prop change was making it run significantly more wet. The first run was the most clean, the others you can see where I was having to get in and out of the throttle due to running back n' forth across my own wake.

[Panther6834]

Follow up to my prior post.

Don't mean to be, and not trying to be, rude/disrespectful, but you have, essentially, 'highjacked' someone else's thread. If you want to post about your own project, it would be highly recommended to create your own thread.

This thread was created by RaceMechanix, and it's specific to a project he not only created, but it's working on for many others. All of the info you keep posting is counterintuitive to what he is trying to accomplish. To be respectful to him, again, please create your own thread, for all that you want to pay related to your own project. Thank you.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[RaceMechaniX]

Follow up to my prior post.

I ran the Octura 1760 prop last night. I believe it is an M series? I know it has little to no rake and my mono didn't like the prop. I would describe this prop as a pig, which was perfect for my stress test on the ESC and motor. This test loaded the ESC/Motor with 307 amps and both took it well. I only cleaned up the casting marks, sharpened the leading edge and balanced it. I will continue to modify this prop, but purposely wanted a baseline with low efficiency - high stress setup for this test. I was expecting around 320 amps and got 307

I after several passes that go beyond what I show in the logs screen shot, I was able to get the ESC fan to kick on for a short bit. Temps reached closer to 120 F, which is still amazing. The motor (TP 4070 1700kv (40x107mm) was in the 95 to 110 F range. I suppose the water cooling is working well on the motor.

Speed peaked at 53 mph and it was clear this prop change was making it run significantly more wet. The first run was the most clean, the others you can see where I was having to get in and out of the throttle due to running back n' forth across my own wake.

Can you run this setup with 6S or 8S? 1700kv on 4S is not going to stress the motor unless you put on a 80mm prop which is not going to run well in the hull. Running on 6S or 8s will greatly increase the motor power and you can still run reasonable props.

[LibertyMKiii]

Don't mean to be, and not trying to be, rude/disrespectful, but you have, essentially, 'highjacked' someone else's thread. If you want to post about your own project, it would be highly recommended to create your own thread.

This thread was created by RaceMechanix, and it's specific to a project he not only created, but it's working on for many others. All of the info you keep posting is counterintuitive to what he is trying to accomplish. To be respectful to him, again, please create your own thread, for all that you want to pay related to your own project. Thank you.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

I think you may has misunderstood my intent.
I was adding in some examples to support RaceMechanix's thread about the XLX2 being a solid boat ESC option.

I had provided a data log of a normal prop choice for this boat, plus an over sized prop data log to show how the ESC performs. I am not here to get advice on the boat or props, just sharing some additional data logs for reference data by the forum.

My apologies RaceMechanix if you felt also that I was hijacking.

[LibertyMKiii]

Can you run this setup with 6S or 8S? 1700kv on 4S is not going to stress the motor unless you put on a 80mm prop which is not going to run well in the hull. Running on 6S or 8s will greatly increase the motor power and you can still run reasonable props.

I could and likely will work my way up to 8s at some point.
My experience has been that lower voltage setups tend to pull higher amps and generate lots of heat when attempting high speeds. This was my attempt to generate high amps and heat to share with the forum on how the XLX2 performs under these loads.

Possibly I missed the purpose of the thread that it was supposed to be more about your water cooling developments?
I apologize if I have derailed the thread in anyway.

[RaceMechaniX]

No need to apologize, you are not hijacking the thread. We are all discussing what the XLX2 can and cannot do. The data plots are nice to see and prove what the ESC is capable of. You are correct that it is typical of lower cell count boats to pull higher currents in fast setups. N2 (2 cell) is one of the hardest classes because you need a monster ESC to drive high power levels. 400A was not uncommon for a 2 cell mono. My point is you need a 3000-4000kv motor on 4S to really stress the ESC. 1700kv is not going to cut it. Without switching motors, the easiest change is to increase cell count. 1700kv is on the warmer side for 6 cells, but definitely on the hot side for 8 cells. Running higher cells will push the power and amperage up if you want to see that the XLX2 is capable of.

-Tyler

[RaceMechaniX]

Today I tried my own static test of the XLX2. I mounted a 2250/4 Lehner configured in Wye so it becomes a 7 wind with an unloaded kv around 2400. I ran a pair of HobbyKing 65C 6000mAh Graphene cells in parallel so 6S2P with a total of 12,000mAh. No fins and no cooling at all. I thought this setup would be a little hotter on 6S, but it turns out 350A is no sweat for the ESC. This test produced a maximum of 8.4kW@37kRPM. The ESC barely got warm! I will crank up the frequency in another test and run a hotter motor to continue stress testing. We'll have a winner if this ESC continues to perform this good.

Here is a short video of a cyclic test 50-100% throttle over several seconds. Note that is an 12lb piece of steel on top of the batteries and it inches backward with every full trigger pull.

Castle XLX2 High Load Test Lehner 2250-4 Wye 2400kv unloaded HK Graphene 6000mAh 6S2P Schuleber .jpgCastle XLX2 High Load Test Lehner 2250-4 Wye 2400kv unloaded HK Graphene 6000mAh 6S2P Schuleber .jpg

[fweasel]

That's great news Tyler

[Hotrods]

[QUOTE=RaceMechaniX;757906]Today I tried my own static test of the XLX2. I mounted a 2250/4 Lehner configured in Wye so it becomes a 7 wind with an unloaded kv around 2400. I ran a pair of HobbyKing 65C 6000mAh Graphene cells in parallel so 6S2P with a total of 12,000mAh. No fins and no cooling at all. I thought this setup would be a little hotter on 6S, but it turns out 350A is no sweat for the ESC. This test produced a maximum of 8.4kW@37kRPM. The ESC barely got warm! I will crank up the frequency in another test and run a hotter motor to continue stress testing. We'll have a winner if this ESC continues to perform this good.

Here is a short video of a cyclic test 50-100% throttle over several seconds. Note that is an 12lb piece of steel on top of the batteries and it inches backward with every full trigger pull.

Castle XLX2 High Load Test Lehner 2250-4 Wye 2400kv unloaded HK Graphene 6000mAh 6S2P Schuleber .jpgCastle XLX2 High Load Test Lehner 2250-4 Wye 2400kv unloaded HK Graphene 6000mAh 6S2P Schuleber .jpg

[/QUOTE

Awesome news. Thank you Tyler

[donhuff]

Another advantage of the Mamba X series is that you can move the esc close to the motor and put your motor connectors directly into the esc connectors. This does away with the lead extensions. And as a side benefit, the connectors get the cooling from the water cooled esc! After some hard runs the connectors are no warmer that the esc. NO MORE UNSOLDERED CONNECTORS!!!!! And now I can use plain ole 60-40 solder.

DSC_0012.jpg

DSC_0013.jpg

and if you can't get the esc close enough, get AMPDADDY to rewind your motor and put leads on it to the length that you require.

[donhuff]

one more picture

DSC_0014.jpg

[zooma]

one more picture

DSC_0014.jpg

You're saving a lot of money by eliminating the heat shrink, eh?

[admin]

Sorry to say but if your thinking this is the end all of esc's, a local drag car racer with a ton of experience has been using one in a drag boat. He was able to kill it. He hasnt given up, he has a second one he's using now.

[Panther6834]

Sorry to say but if your thinking this is the end all of esc's, a local drag car racer with a ton of experience has been using one in a drag boat. He was able to kill it. He hasnt given up, he has a second one he's using now.

"Never give up, for that is just the place and time that the tide will turn." ~ Harriet Beecher Stowe

How appropriate for a boat-related forum.


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[fweasel]

Sorry to say but if your thinking this is the end all of esc's, a local drag car racer with a ton of experience has been using one in a drag boat. He was able to kill it. He hasnt given up, he has a second one he's using now.

That doesn't really tell us anything. I can kill any ESC in any boat with too much prop load or a crappy setup. That fact does not imply there are no good ESC's for boat use available. This modified Castle is checking off a lot of boxes in a tiny market of the RC industry that doesn't see a lot of new electronics development. It's an exciting development for many who need more headroom and can benefit from the data logging too.

[RaceMechaniX]

Good news to report. The first batch of Stump Fabrication coolers have been machined and I am working on the instruction details. These fit nicely directly over the existing aluminum plate and are compact. These will be available on the Stump Fab website as soon as we finish the instructions so hopefully early next week.

Castle XLX2 Stump Fab Cooler Pic 1.jpgCastle XLX2 Stump Fab Cooler Pic 2.jpgCastle XLX2 Stump Fab Cooler Pic 5.jpg

[Panther6834]

Woo-hoo. Getting close. Just curious...for the water line fittings, why plastic, instead of metal?


~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

[longballlumber]

Nice work on both accounts!

[zooma]

[QUOTE=RaceMechaniX;758153]Good news to report. The first batch of Stump Fabrication coolers have been machined and I am working on the instruction details. These fit nicely directly over the existing aluminum plate and are compact. These will be available on the Stump Fab website as soon as we finish the instructions so hopefully early next week.

Great. I have the ESC on order.