Stable 180 km/h build

[Iquentos123]

Hi, I wondered if it would be possible to build a catamaran that goes 180+ that I can drive on the regular. And for longer periods of time, not just one pass then it needs to cool off. If this is possible do you have any setup ideas or recommendations for me?

[LibertyMKiii]

If the water is too warm you could run a micro water pump, nitro tank - filled with ice water.
This would also reduce the water pick up drag helping with speed and efficiency.

[DannyB.]

180km/h for bashing around...
That's not gonna work...

Those speeds put so much stress on everything your limited to single passes with cool down in between.
Realistic speeds with a setup that's able to run a full battery charge without cool downs would be around 130~140km/h.

A TFL Zonda with a couple of 4082~4092 and some 40~45mm 1.9P props would be doable.

[Iquentos123]

Well yea, was thinking that might have been a little bit ambitious.

The oxidean marine boat does 109MPH for bashing right? Why couldn't I realistically make something with equal performance? I am sure my knowledge is lacking and that it isn't as simple as I stated it above, so can you inform me as of why this doesn't work or rather where my knowledge is lacking?

[DannyB.]

I doubt that 109mp/h would be for bashing....

The amp draw for those speeds is the biggest problem.
Even lipo's aren't capable of sustaining 150~200A loads for minutes on end without major heating of the cells , that's why it's always single/double passes with those speeds. Let alone stuff like the motors or esc's.

[koen]

you can built a cat that can do 120mph but only for max 2 runs (you have to use lehner motors and they are not cheap)and for some more run time 80mph,but long run times is not possible.For those speeds the best hull is from MHZ a 114 or 135 and you need the very best lipo's ,it's expensive but it looks so good

[DannyB.]

From about 60mph and up everything starts to heat up at an exponential rate , drag is a bitch...
You can get a boat to do roughly 80~85mph without cooldowns , but that requires the right setup all the way from props up to the lipo's , a perfectly trimmed and reaaalllyyy looosssseee running boat and a perfectly prepped hull.

Trying to go beyond that speed pretty much limits you to single passes purely because the amp draw and heat buildup goes thru the roof

[vvviivvv]

I have 2 cats that can do prolonged runs at 100+

I wouldn't believe everything that comes from Oxidean marine, not a hater just not a fan.

Like above, you do need to run some pretty high end gear, my similar size cat to the Animal cat's ESC and motors are north of $2k. the whole animal cat RTR is $400 cheaper.

My bigger cat's engines and ESC's are knocking on $3500

It's possible but you need some high end gear, not RTR china grade.

[Iquentos123]

Ok, so this is more of an answer to all of you guys as It is easier to sum it up in one reply. Thank you guys so much for the info, I love learning although it lowered my standards heh. It's really interesting with the whole top speed thing.
It seems you guys have a lot of experience on this, also with running the boats yourself (some of you) so then is the next question (you will never get rid of me)
What would you suggest for a guy like me? I want a good top speed and I want to be bashing around. Preferably running quite cool. Would the TFL Zonda build above be good or could I get some more performance without suffering by scaling up to 12s setup or so?
And to you guys who have ran fast af boats, do you find the top speed pass boats more fun or the bashing ish ones? Should I rather be building a top speed boat?

Again so grateful for the answers, you are helping so much!

[vvviivvv]

All comes down to budget imo.

Zonda is a good starting point but they are known to disintegrate on high speed collisions which when pushing are bound to happen...

a 45" boat will go 100+ on 6s fairly easily. heck a 72" boat on 12s will go 100+. no need to be using such high volts at this sized boat.

If I were you I wouldn't build a "SAW" boat straight away, I'd build something more of a basher, you could then up the cell count / prop up in the event you'd like to make some SAW passes.

[vvviivvv]

For example - my HPR115, I have 7s and 8s setups, and then X447, X457(cut to 51mm) and ABC 2016

With ABC 2016 and 8s, its a 110mph+ boat which doesn't appeal to me most of the time, smaller props and 7s is more than enough but also nice knowing for say a SAW event I can come along and with some minor adjustments be one of the fastest boats in the UK (it probably is the fastest boat just not officially at a SAW event)

My C5008 im building on the same principle, 110mph is goal top speed on big props and 14s. I will have ABC 2515 for top speed and X465 cut to 60mm for 'bashing'

Edit - for any keen eye'd readers the 465 will also be bored to 1/4"

[Iquentos123]

Oh okay, that seems like a great way to do it! Only downside is that you need two sets of batteries I guess.

So regarding the earlier post where you said budget is the most important factor, would you have any ideas for a 2000-3000k build (Electronics)
And what would you do if budget wasn't a factor?

[vvviivvv]

at 2-3k USD I'd look for a used Mhz mystic 114 with decent spec. they do turn up well in that budget and are a reliable hull that'd get you a very good speed. only thing would be shipping from Europe could crush the budget.

Something like this is at the upper end of the budget - https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-...7908-249-16372
Video of it running probably not 100+ but with some modifications It's a solid start.

and money no object - Hpr115 Bulletproof, Lehner 2250's and Old school 40.160's or 32.200's. (HPR hulls haven't been produced in years but are renowned as probably the best cats ever produced)

[Iquentos123]

Okay, so let's say I have a hull, I only need electronics + props. I would want a setup like yours where I could go fast af, but also more of a fun setup for longer runs. You reaaaalllyy sold me on having for instance an 8s and a 7s setup. Can't imagine how I didn't think of that. Screw budget, but I don't want lehner. Anything else goes. Something similar to yours maybe?

[Iquentos123]

Okay, so let's say I have a hull, I only need electronics + props. I would want a setup like yours where I could go fast af, but also more of a fun setup for longer runs. You reaaaalllyy sold me on having for instance an 8s and a 7s setup. Can't imagine how I didn't think of that. Screw budget, but I don't want lehner. Anything else goes. Something similar to yours maybe?

[plinse]

Oh okay, that seems like a great way to do it! Only downside is that you need two sets of batteries I guess.

So regarding the earlier post where you said budget is the most important factor, would you have any ideas for a 2000-3000k build (Electronics)
And what would you do if budget wasn't a factor?

With unlimited budget I would go for an Exocet 150 from Kulz Custom made. These are the strongest hulls I know and there are great drives available:
https://www.ebay-kleinanzeigen.de/s-...63240-249-1596
This is actually a quite good price for what you get, less then 2 RTR Oxi boats and you get something really cool.

Very important is a look at the available lakes at first!

I hardly have any lakes here to do 180km/h. In winter there are some lakes but in summer there are people swimming and you don't want to take the risk of killing anyone. In summer the operation of such a boat is next to impossible here.

When having the intention of doing real high speed passes I calculate the boat to be capable of what I want.
If you choose to do it on a certain number of cells, just make sure you can reduce the cells reasonably.
6s1p for real high speed and 4s2p for bashing around is a quite good choice though.

With such an Exocet you can go for 12-14s for real high speed and 8-10s for fun.

There is a wide range of "speed" and "fun".

Make sure that you have a strong hull that covers the high speed ambitions.

This boat can exceed the 180km/h on 4s:

I can run it nicely on 3s, on 4s I don't have large enough lakes on a regular basis but in the video you see the flips/crashes. Hulls doing such speeds need to be strong enough for it. The bigger the boat is the more difficult it is to make it withstand the crashes.
There are only few manufacturers producing hulls that can do this for more then a very small number of flips, all the RTR boats are VERY limited there.

HPR shut down the business
Kulz Custom made only has a 1,5m Katamaran, no smaller ones

You need something strong in the size range of about 1 - 1,5m. Bigger boats have more true-to-scale behavior so in a crash they start to breake more often like the big ones

And these are about the only manufacturers coming to my mind when talking about 150km/h + and doing that for some longer time. Most people doing high speed runs reinforce or build their boats themselves.

Regards, Eike

[vvviivvv]

Yeah, I also owned a Exocet 150, sold it for a Hpr5008 very nice boat.

I believe the OP was thinking more around the 45" and below mark rather than 60" which a Exocet is.

regardless, there's plenty of electronics from TP / SSS with the right setup that would get you very good speeds for not a huge sum. a pair of MGM esc & some TP4050's would do.

I'm not sure what else is equivalent to top spec like Lehner, I believe Neu quality went down although I never had much luck with the 1521 series, it didn't work well with my Modelbaueregler ESC so I moved to Lehner and all my boats are Lehner powered.

[Iquentos123]

Yes that would be a great option, the only thing is that I would want to do it somewhat myself. I would just want the electronics capable of pulling the numbers you are. I am quite baffled as to how you do those speeds at 4s. 4 and 3s batteries are laying around the whole house so that would be convenient. And yes there are some quite nice lakes I can drive on here in Norway :) the only problem is that the good ones are so open that there usually is a lot of wind and waves but when it settles its the best :)

[Iquentos123]

Yes you are correct about my wishes for the size.

YES! Something like that sounds great, then I will look more into the TP motors and what lipos and props to use, then I have one complete option :)
But since I am already typing, do you have some ideas for props? Or would it be better to just go trial and error to see what is best?

Yes I was prepared for having to sacrifice some performance by not going lehner, as I have understood that they are at the top of the food chain. But that's all good to me.

[vvviivvv]

Which hull have you settled on?

I would start with some Abc / Ocutra X series in the 45-50mm range and go from there.

For lipos since you are in Europe - SLS are imo (and many others) the best my boats run the Quantum 65C packs which are genuine C rating unlike a lot of this misbranded Chinese stuff. they are responsible for many of the fastest saw passes.

[Iquentos123]

Which hull have you settled on?

I would start with some Abc / Ocutra X series in the 45-50mm range and go from there.

For lipos since you are in Europe - SLS are imo (and many others) the best my boats run the Quantum 65C packs which are genuine C rating unlike a lot of this misbranded Chinese stuff. they are responsible for many of the fastest saw passes.

Okay, would it be stupid to be going for bigger motors? Like 5060s or something from tp? Then I guess the prop would change too in that case?

What?!?! When you wrote the description of the lipos I was prepared to take up a loan, because they sounded expensive lol. But the price is amazing! Never buying lipos anywhere else if they are as good as you are saying.

[vvviivvv]

if you mean TP5650, then yes they would be overkill and heavy. I have a single mono that was doing 75-80mph with 1 TP5650, I have since installed a Lehner 3060 and it's running close to 90 with room for more when I have time.

twin 4050 would get you 100+ easy. can't comment on how reliable they are at repeat 100+ passes because I've never ran them.

and yes SLS lipo are really the bomb.

[Iquentos123]

if you mean TP5650, then yes they would be overkill and heavy. I have a single mono that was doing 75-80mph with 1 TP5650, I have since installed a Lehner 3060 and it's running close to 90 with room for more when I have time.

twin 4050 would get you 100+ easy. can't comment on how reliable they are at repeat 100+ passes because I've never ran them.

and yes SLS lipo are really the bomb.

Yes that was what I meant :) would it be more reliable or would it just be overkill for the sake of overkill? Damn that's fast for a mono.

Okey this is where the question above comes in I guess. Would want something that I know for sure would be reliable, but ofc that might be hard with a high speed setup.

Well that info alone is super helpful, thank you for being a great guide here man, and thank you for your time.

[vvviivvv]

I don't know if you'd physically fit a 56XX sized can in the sponsons of a sub 45" boat...

weight is also a big factor when you start going these speeds. I think you'd be more than happy with some 40XX series TP and some high quality ESC's.

The mono is for sale if interested :) I have a new twin mono project.

[Iquentos123]

Well yea you might have a point there, but will measure tomorrow for fun :) yea okey, will leave it to the guys with knowledge, I won't try to be a smart-ass. What kv option would I want? What are the best Esc brand options? Or what are considered high quality? Does hobbywing, seaking, hifei and ztw count as high quality? I'm guessing hobbywing is a no go lol.

That's a quite interesting offer, but sadly as I said earlier u want to build somewhat myself :)) but out of curiosity what do you sell for?

[vvviivvv]

Which hull do you currently have?

Somewhere 13-1600 KV if you are using 7-8s and want high speeds.

I don't have much experience with esc other than modellbau-regler and schulze, I do have a MGM, 2x turnigy Dlux modified and a few hobby wing seeking pro's for race boats but they are small slower boats.

MGM are high end readily available.

the Mono is a H&M no step4, reinforced hull and has a Lehner 3060, Schulze 40.160 power plant im looking for GBP1450. This boat will run 85mph all day long, I blew a cooling line (okay in December in the UK) and it still came back cool, I couldn't believe it.

[vvviivvv]

Just for example - there's a 72" cat running 150km/h+ with twin SSS56104, which aren't that much bigger engines than you are proposing to fit in a 45"boat.

I would really advise against twin 56 series motor in a sub 45" boat

[plinse]

Yeah, I also owned a Exocet 150, sold it for a Hpr5008 very nice boat.

I believe the OP was thinking more around the 45" and below mark rather than 60" which a Exocet is.
...

Well the OP starts the discussion with a performance definition and asks for open budget solutions.

When looking at the components available I would rather go for an Exocet using TP engines and ZTW300 ESC instead of going for something smaller and picking MGM. Value for money is poor on the MGM BUT the size around 1,15m is difficult to equip.
If you really want to go fast the ZTW200A are a little too weak, the ZTW300 are far too big and heavy and the MGM cost twice the money AND MGM defined to be benchmark when running them with Lehner. They do not have that target of supplying the best controllers when running them with "any chinese motor". MGM and Lehner is a binding combination for me. If I would be willing to spend the money on MGM I would also spend the money on Lehner motors. The other way around: If I know a good combination of Lehner motor and a different ESC MGM is not binding for me when using Lehner

My small red boat in the video is in the 75cm size-range. There are Lehner motors in it and 2 Flycolor 150A ESC.
That is a lovely size of boat and you can equip it with small budget BUT you need absolutely flat water as it is a small boat.

For me there is a big gap between <= 6s using Flycolor 150A ESC and bigger boats when looking for "value for money setups".

The ZTW200A are much more expensive then the Flycolor 150A and I don't think they can really handle 1/3 more current

When looking for value for money setups the ZTW300A is a good choice again, as you mentioned:

...
regardless, there's plenty of electronics from TP / SSS with the right setup that would get you very good speeds for not a huge sum. a pair of MGM esc & some TP4050's would do.
...

Partly true - looking for value for money I would skip MGM at first and several friends had problems running MGM with "more then 2 pole motors".
Going for quality starts with Lehner motors for me and only leads to MGM if there is no other good controller around

Spending money only partly scales with the size of the boat, it scales much more with the brands (?quality?) of the components in use. My 75cm Katamaran has more expensive motors in it then an Exocet on SSS motors would have. Then sum up that the Exocet would run on ZTW300 and the drives of my 75cm boat and the Exocet would need a similar budget for motors and ESC.

Of course a set of 4s LiPo is much less expensive but running them SAW-style also kills them quickly and the Exocet would run 12s2p also giving much more runtime.

...
And yes there are some quite nice lakes I can drive on here in Norway :) the only problem is that the good ones are so open that there usually is a lot of wind and waves but when it settles its the best :)

Big boats help to have fun on big lakes.

AND in the 1,15m range it is currently very difficult to buy strong hulls. You crack a hull and drown your components and we are not talking about budget any more
HPR does not produce any more and the quality of MHZ is changing from day to day, a friend just had to do severe repairs after the first flip of his Mystic 114 at only 120km/h, no comparison of that hull to a HPR 115. I have not heard of a HPR or an Exocet being damaged in the first flip just having had contact to water. If you crash in the bank you crack every boat, that is for sure but doing a flip at medium speed with a CAFK-boat in the middle of a lake? You can also go for a Zonda then ...

Just my thoughts on this...

Regards, Eike

[koen]

I have to say i am using Lehner motors now with ZTW esc's and it works perfect(and i have to say Lehner rules)

[Iquentos123]

Which hull do you currently have?

Somewhere 13-1600 KV if you are using 7-8s and want high speeds.

I don't have much experience with esc other than modellbau-regler and schulze, I do have a MGM, 2x turnigy Dlux modified and a few hobby wing seeking pro's for race boats but they are small slower boats.

MGM are high end readily available.

the Mono is a H&M no step4, reinforced hull and has a Lehner 3060, Schulze 40.160 power plant im looking for GBP1450. This boat will run 85mph all day long, I blew a cooling line (okay in December in the UK) and it still came back cool, I couldn't believe it.

I have one that my friend made for me, he knows his stuff so I'll trust the build heh.

Okey dokey, would you always want to utilize the max amount of volt the motor can handle for top speed?

Ok, it feels like if I would be going for mgm I could just as well pair it up with lehner motors. I will see, the build won't be happening until at least later this year, so I have some time to decide.

Wow, sounds very solid and the guy who ends up buying it is getting a great deal. If I was on the lookout for a mono I would deffo buy.