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Thread: Time For A Change

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2020
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    Default Time For A Change

    As the title clearly states, it's time for a change in the RC industry...specifically, to how RC motors are labeled, and marketed. As we all know, RC motors are currently labeled/marketed under their kV rating, or Turn rating...some manufacturers use 'kV', while others use 'Turn', but none (that I'm aware of) currently use both.

    I am certain there are countless others who will agree with what I am about to propose...whether, or not, they are "vocal" about it. To anyone working in the RC industry and/or to those who know people working in the RC industry, please, please, please, pass this information along to those who have the ability to actually do something about this.

    What I propose is this:

    For all RC motors currently labeled/marketed under their 'kV rating', below the KV rating (on the box, and in all printed & online marketing material), in parentheses, the equivalent 'Turn' should also be listed. Likewise, for motors currently labeled/marketed under their 'Turn', the equivalent 'kV rating' should be listed. Additionally, below the equivalent kV/Turn rating, the 'wind' (ie. D, Y, etc) should be listed.

    I, like many others, realize that there is not always a direct correlation between kV & Turn, thus it would be impossible to create an "industry standard"...but, it would be incredibly easy for every manufacturer to determine an equivalent number for each of their motors. As replacing motors (especially in RTR vehicles) is extremely common (otherwise, the aftermarket RC motor industry wouldn't even exist), this would greatly help those attempting to determine what motor(s) might best suit their needs. In regards to the Wind information, this can be greatly needed, as the Wind is also needed in determining where to set the timing (something the RC boating industry has been well-aware of for many years). For example, if you took two motors with the same kV rating...one with a 'D' Wind, and the other with a 'Y' Wind...the timing would need to be set differently on each in order for them to operate equivalently.

    I'm certain there are probably a large number of people who could care less about having both pieces of information. For example, when it comes to racing, certain 'classes' only care about 'kV', or 'Turn'...but, for the far greater majority of Racers (ie. all the non-racers), having both pieces of information would be of considerable importance.

    So, RC motor manufacturers, are you up for this change? It would not increase, in any way, manufacturing costs. Yes, it would take a little time in determining the additional pieces of information for each motor, but that "time" would easily equate to less than five minutes per motor designation. If a company makes a dozen different motors, that equates to one hour of time needed to determine this information. As for the printing on the boxes, that is a simple change that can be done in seconds for each box design, which could easily be applied during the next printing run of said boxes. Having previously worked in an industry where such changes did occasionally take place, I have firsthand experience/knowledge in knowing how incredibly little such a change would cost. Additionally, as this would be a one-time change, said cost (less than a few dollars per motor) to each manufacturer producing motors would be virtually non-existent.


    ~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    ON
    Posts
    2,359

    Default

    What companies are you talking about?
    90% of the motors that OSE sells are listed - D or Y, KV , # of poles ,# of turns, Size, weight , shaft size, What more are you looking for?
    Some of the stock motors were not listed with all of the information at first, Most are now known, just ask.

    If you want to buy some X or Z motors from the Web, that is on you.

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
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    GB
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    Default

    Maybe a petition for this change would be better off in a car forum as they have motor size, turn limits, and pole limits in many car race classes and some ESCs spec a minimum turn count rather than giving an actual amp rating.
    In the RC boat, and RC plane worlds most of our classes are open motor classes, and those few that have a limit don't limit turn count or pole count, and all our ESCs disclose a maximum current. While I cant think of any motor manufacturer worth its salt in the boat and plane worlds that doesn't disclose the turns, wind and pole count as well as the KV. I couldn't care less how many turns my motor has, even for a given can size (that we aren't generally limited to in boats or planes) there are a number of design changes that can be made to the motor in order to raise or lower the KV whilst keeping the turn count the same, so turn count is meaningless and the car world should be using KV too.

    I do however wish motor manufactures quoted their IO and RM, as with the KV, IO, and RM, you can accurately model the motors efficiency at any voltage and power level. There are a few high end manufacturers that take the time to plug those numbers into modeling software and model the motors for you on their websites, and while that must cost them in a bunch in software licencing and dev time, and should be applauded, any half competent motor maker must be able to accurately measure the IO and RM, and as you say adding some numbers to the website so we could do the modeling ourselves would be trivial, I guess those that don't disclose the numbers just don't want us to know how poorly their motors stack up against the competition.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  4. #4
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    Apr 2020
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    Default

    In addition to the OSE forum, to it had been posted in other forums...land, air, and sea. While I am in agreement that this is primarily a "land problem", there are many who participate in more than one area. Additionally, many manufacturers produce products for multiple areas. For example, both Castle & Hobbywing produce products for all aspects of RC.


    ~ More peace, love, and kindness would make the world a much better place

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    GB
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    2,494

    Default

    I know there are people that participate in more than one RC area, I am one of them I have boats, cars, planes, quadcopters and a helicopter, and i still maintain that the turn count is meaningless, all have their power system worked out by KV bar 1 car that is limited to a particular turn count by race rules that are stuck in the past.

    Many manufacturers do produce products for multiple areas, but yours are strage examples as:

    Castle have never sold boat motors or plane motors retail, they did make one batch of 1717 heli motors and sold the batch retail through their webstore but never sent them to distributors, and they pulled out of the retail boat ESC market several years ago. Additionally most of their car motors they quote both KV and turns for, all their 15, 17 and 20 series they do and the 14 series longer than the 1406 they do. It is only the 08 series and the 1406s that they don't give turn counts for as well as the KV, and for the 1406 motors they make a chart with equivalent turn counts so you can compare them to the more typical 2 pole ROAR style motors if you want to, I would guess that they don't list a turn count to avoid confusion with the equivalent turn count.

    While Hobbywing make ESCs for all aspects of RC, they have never made boat or plane motors, only car and quadcopter. Hobbywing do list KV for all their motors even the ones they name by the turn count. While I don't care at all that they don't list turn counts for the motors that are not for ROAR racing, i do have mixed feelings on their spec sheets, I would like to see whether they are D or Y wound to save some a bit of timing testing, but on the other hand they do list the IO which while not amazing without listing the RM for full efficiency modeling is still useful info hinting towards efficiency and is more than a lot list.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

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