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Thread: 1/8 Qatar ML Boatworks 172 Extreme Kit Build

  1. #1
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    Default 1/8 Alaska ML Boatworks 172 Extreme Kit Build

    I decided to make a thread for this build, more so I can document my progress than anything, but perhaps I can get some useful input as well to make things go more easily. I've read many many other threads trying to learn as much as I can, but I'm still nowhere close to where I want to be, knowledge wise, about these boats.

    Where I am now: My 172 Extreme kit it is on order from Mike. Quite possibly being cut as I type this. I was planning on building the 171 kit to make the Boeing boat (I fly planes as my day job, so it seemed fitting), but the lines on the 172 kit were just too much nicer to not build this one instead. Decided on making the 2012 U-1 Qatar boat. I've always liked that boat, and it just beat out an Oberto boat for my build (like Wayne and Garth, I don't bow down to any product sponsors).

    I don't plan on racing it. I'm more building it for the experience of building it more than running it, although I'm sure I'll love running it. That opens me up for building it however I want without having to worry about any rules and regulations. Current plan is to build it so that I can start it out running as an 8s, and then being able to run it as a 10s as I get more used to driving it. From what I read, that should be possible by getting a motor that has a middle of the road kv rating, and by using the correct props for each setup. It seems that I should be able to expect around 50mph on 8s and 70mph on 10s depending on RTR weight and setup and such. Current tentative plan would be for a TP 5670 running 850kv. That would give me unloaded RPMs of 25,160 on 8s and 31,450 on 10s. Seems like prop selection would be able to keep those numbers within reason for both setups. ESC TBD, but something in the 200amp plus range, from what I read, is the way to go.

    I am what I would call "new" to RC boats. I had a Gentry Eagle when I was a kid. Last year, I found a 63" offshore hull in my dad's garage that I built into a 32cc gas boat from scratch. That boat is too loud, I really wanted an electric boat when I built that one, but I didn't want to pull a second mortgage for batteries to run something that big. I do have a good amount of experience building with wood and fiberglass. I've built over a dozen kayaks, canoes, and stand-up paddleboards in my day. Some whitewater racing kayaks out of carbon/kevlar/fiberglass, and some sea kayaks out of wood and fiberglass. So I'm not too worried about being able to get the kit together, more just getting the correct motor/esc/batteries/running gear picked out and installed correctly.

    Now for the hard part- wait for the kit to arrive. In the mean time, I'll continue to try to keep learning more about setting up, building, and running these boats.

    Just for fun, here is a picture and video of my scratch built 63" gas boat, my last two kayak builds a few weeks from completion, and an SUP I built last year.

    https://imgur.com/zi6ubIb
    https://imgur.com/dslM2a4
    https://imgur.com/zx2cYwk
    https://imgur.com/EU04xAg
    Last edited by WhiteH2O; 12-13-2022 at 02:10 PM.

  2. #2
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    Sounds good . I'm slowly working on a 2008 U-1 Miss Elam. Building it using a RC Boat Company Fiberglass hull Kit. I also became a member over at https://www.intlwaters.com/ forum . A lot of knowledgeable people over there like here.

    I'm using a NEU 1527 1.5Y 850KVM motor with a Swordfish Pro+ II 240 amp ESC . I'll also be running on 8's and 10's for the batteries.

    Oh I also Recommend Scott's Youtube channel https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6S...kxUwSi0aLeOfUA . Lots of knowledge.

  3. #3
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    I also like the Qatar boat, if you are sure you don't want to race it, why not build the Qatar boat and put the Boeing livery on it, very few people will know the difference and it can be fun to have a one off.

    Only if you are absolutely sure you won't race it though as I belive it would preclude you from it in the states.

    Also I believe 70 is a very hard target for a 1:8th scale, as whatever the power system they
    like to fly before then.
    Paul Upton-Taylor, Greased Weasel Racing.

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    1coopgt, I found your thread over at Intl Waters. Very nice build you have there, and lots of info I can take as well. I'd already found Scott's Youtube channel. It's a good one. I'll be watching your thread for sure.

    NativePaul, I did have that thought of building the Boeing boat on that hull, but I decided that if I make a non accurate boat, I'd try to do a hydro in my airplane's livery. I think it would be fun to make a fleet of boats in a lot of different airplane liveries, but the lack of available graphics is what would axe that idea. I'm not that good with an airbrush. And I'm not set on seeing 70mph. Just thinking out loud about what I've seen from other boats with similar setups. If that isn't accurate, what would be expected speeds for a setup like this on 8s and 10s?

    As I'm trying to find info on different motors, I've come up with some questions. What is the difference between two motors that are the same diameter, but one being longer? Longer one would have added weight, but would it have added torque as well? What about the smaller diameter motors? Like the TP 5670 like I'm planning vs the NEU 1527- they both have the same kv rating, so theoretically spin a prop at the same speed. The smaller diameter would be quite a bit lighter, but... less torque again? I understand the kv rating is the unloaded rpm, would the smaller motor run slower in a real world situation of spinning a prop in the water?

  5. #5
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    If the OP intends to race his boat he will be forced to use a 40mm motor. Longer means more torque, the 1527 or 1530 sized are generally preferred. Otherwise the longer 56mm motors are a bit more powerful, but does he need that?

    The SAW record for an 1/8th scale hydro is 100 mph, but that is not practical for anything but the smoothest water, and only 2 to 3 passes. That hull was specially prepped for SAW competition, most 1/8th scales are designed for 50-55 mph tops. Close to 70 should be doable bit it will require a special setup and very good water. A flip at 70 mph is not a pretty thing to see with a scale boat....


    .
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    Fluid, I have no plans on racing this boat. I have property on a lake that is usually glass flat at certain times of the day, and I just want something fun to build and drive around. I'm 100% sure that I don't *need* the more powerful 56mm motor, but they seem less expensive than the NEU motors, and lets face it, I don't *need* this boat at all. It's all just for fun and challenge myself on the build and learning how to drive it. If anyone has input to a better motor, or anything, that I'm planning on using, by all means, I'm open to more information. That's why I'm posting stuff here. If I'm about to do something stupid, and someone is willing to stop me before I do, that's a good day!

    I don't have any speed goals for this boat, but I'd like to build a good example of an 1/8 scale hydro. I don't really know what to expect. All my knowledge has come off forums like this, and there is a lot of info to dig through. What should I expect as a speed difference between 8s and 10s? I assume the 50-55 mph numbers are from 10s? I ask more out of curiosity than anything else. If I was searching for top speeds, I'd probably be building an outrigger instead.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteH2O View Post
    1coopgt, I found your thread over at Intl Waters. Very nice build you have there, and lots of info I can take as well. I'd already found Scott's Youtube channel. It's a good one. I'll be watching your thread for sure.

    NativePaul, I did have that thought of building the Boeing boat on that hull, but I decided that if I make a non accurate boat, I'd try to do a hydro in my airplane's livery. I think it would be fun to make a fleet of boats in a lot of different airplane liveries, but the lack of available graphics is what would axe that idea. I'm not that good with an airbrush. And I'm not set on seeing 70mph. Just thinking out loud about what I've seen from other boats with similar setups. If that isn't accurate, what would be expected speeds for a setup like this on 8s and 10s?

    As I'm trying to find info on different motors, I've come up with some questions. What is the difference between two motors that are the same diameter, but one being longer? Longer one would have added weight, but would it have added torque as well? What about the smaller diameter motors? Like the TP 5670 like I'm planning vs the NEU 1527- they both have the same kv rating, so theoretically spin a prop at the same speed. The smaller diameter would be quite a bit lighter, but... less torque again? I understand the kv rating is the unloaded rpm, would the smaller motor run slower in a real world situation of spinning a prop in the water?
    You might be able to have graphics cut that could match your plane. You would still need to do some painting . No getting away from that .... You could with a wrap maybe. But you may want to take some pictures then contact the folks that do graphics for 1/8 scales and tell them what you want. They may do it.

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    I guess the good news is that I have a while to decide how to paint it. It would be a lot more time painting like my plane than it would to paint it like the Qatar boat. It would be fun though. I decided to spend a few minutes on Photoshop to try ideas, here is the result:


  9. #9
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    That would look really cool.

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    Really starting to lean towards making this an Alaska Air hydro. I've tried to get a hold of a few of the graphics guys that I see referenced on here a lot, and I can't get them to reply yet. I'll give them a little more time but I might have to get creative or just go with the initial Qatar idea.

    Anyways, the kit showed up. I built a jig to build they hydro on because I'll be building this outside, under a covered area, but I'm afraid it is going to try to warp pretty badly with temperature and humidity changes. The kit is pretty easy and intuitive to get together. I had pretty much the entire kit put together (dry fit) in just a few minutes. Way easier and faster than I was expecting. I spent a bit of time working on the parts that didn't fit straight or needed a little trimming/sanding. Once things fit as they should, I started permanently sticking some wood together. I'm quickly realizing that my plan of spreading the cost of this build out over a few months might not be my best idea ever. I started to notice it would be helpful if I had the canopy to fit the curves in the front of the boat to, and the rear wing to fit the mounts for that. Time to order more parts, I guess. I've already made mistakes, too. All recoverable fairly easily, but would have been nice had I not. I'm really glad I built the jig. It makes building easy and really easy to use straight edges and squares to make sure things are going together correctly.

    20200907_153331.jpg

  11. #11
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    I got Wesley's Custom Graphics to agree to make my Alaska Air graphics, so I guess I should have named the thread differently. Also got a canopy and rear wing on order, too. I'm going to have to slow down on building, because I think those are 2 weeks out.

    I'm narrowing down rudder/turn fin/strut choices. What are the operational differences between a flat bottom strut and a round bottom strut? Does it matter? Also, it seems people seem to like to get a 1/4" drive with a step down to 3/16". Is that for prop choices? Seems like it would be easier to just run 1/4 all the way back. When you run a step down flex cable, do you get a strut for the bigger size and use those strut bushings to bring it down to size? These are most likely stupid questions, but like I said, I'm new to this. My only other boat runs 1/4" all the way back, so that's all I know.

    I did make a little progress with gluing wood together today. It is hot and too smokey outside, so not as much as planned, but still progress. I'm realizing that assembling the kit (just the laser cut parts) is much less of the building process than I initially thought. I'm guessing I have about a brazillian hours left sanding wood to get the boat ready for sheeting.

    More (probably) stupid questions: The kit pretty much has me set up for a smooth single piece of wood to make the bottom of the sponson ride area (ride pads?). Watching Scott on M5 Performance Hydro's Youtube channel, he has a much less simple method that seems to make sense as well, using multiple flat surfaces. I'm guessing since I'm not racing, the simple one-piece method may be the way to go for starters. Thoughts?

    20200910_152713.jpg

  12. #12
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    I've heard good things about Wesley Custom Graphics. The boats going to look very cool. I got alot of my scale parts from https://www.allrc1.com/product-page/scale-turbine-tube . If you have time talk to Bill Brant he's the owner and he has a wealth of information. I know when I started collecting parts for my Hydro I think I spent about 45 mins on the phone with him and he guided me as to what I would need and he has most of every thing. Think I got 60% from Rattlesnake RC ,30 % from OSE and the rest from Zipkit and a couple other shops.

  13. #13
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    Here is all you may need..and it is painted as the Qatar too!

    https://mlboatworksrc.smugmug.com/Sc...2-Extreme-kit/
    Laser cut, birch plywood rc race boat kits- WWW.MLBOATWORKSRC.COM WWW.DINOGYLIPOS.COM

  14. #14
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    Oh yes, for sure! I've had that album of build pictures open for reference since before I got the kit! Very helpful!

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    I'm making slow progress, but I'm trying to take my time and do it right. I'm glad I waited for the cowling instead of trusting the jig that came with the kit for the shape of the front of the boat under the cowling. Now I'm having to figure out how I'm going to make the radio area waterproof and how I'm going to attach the cowling onto the hull. Fun times; I think I'm narrowing down my plan.

    So, the bottom of the sponsons... The ride pad area. Should I just follow the kit and make the ride pad one piece of curved wood? I've seen the videos of M5 Performance where he uses multiple flat fiberglass sheets to modify the water flow. Should I do something more like that? How big is the difference?

    20200919_155901.jpg

  16. #16
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    I don't have an answer to your questions but this is how I do mine....IMG_4482.jpg IMG_4481.jpg IMG_4483.jpg The Recoveries help the front of the boat pop out of the water on acceleration, And you said you water is glass smooth, you may want to put Ripples in your riding surfaces to break up the water, smooth water is what they call "sticky water".
    Last edited by Tetefroid; 09-20-2020 at 09:37 PM.

  17. #17
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    A little slower progress, but still progress. Motor, ESC, rudder, steering servo, and other bits are here. Still lots to get, but I'm trying to figure out the best way to set everything in. Don't yet have batteries, so I can't use those to help figure out balance, but without everything, I'm guessing trying to figure out balance is a fool's errand.

    Could anyone give me input on this layout? I'm worried the ESC is too close to the motor. I don't know why them being close would be an issue though. Note that they would be a tiny bit further away since my motor moved a little off the mounting marks, but it is close. The plan is to mount a plate where the ESC is, and I would velcro the ESC to the plate. I've seen that everyone seems to put their steering servo pretty far forward. Is this for balance and keeping it as far fwd as possible? How worried do I need to be about balance port-stbd? I have the ESC and servo on the same side, the receiver could go on the opposite side (but that seems negligible). Is this a possible issue?

    20201003_171605.jpg

    20201002_122251.jpg

  18. #18
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    Aside from the questions in the last post, I came up with a few other questions...

    I'm going to need a new transmitter. I'm currently using a $40 transmitter for my other boat, and I don't trust it for something like this boat. I think I'd like to get a transmitter that is good enough to keep for a while and use on other potential future boats as well. I'm thinking about one of the Spectrum DX5 transmitters. They seem like a fair price range and high enough quality to last a awhile. Thoughts? Suggestions? I'd like to have telemetry- worth it? or waste of money?

    Strut- What distance from the bottom of the boat do I want to mount this thing? Also, what angle? Should it be 0 degrees from the bottom of the boat?

    Prop- How would an Octura x560 work on this? Good enough starting point? I had a new one given to me, so I have one already. Motor is a HET 700-98-840kv, and I'll be starting 8s.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteH2O View Post
    Aside from the questions in the last post, I came up with a few other questions...

    I'm going to need a new transmitter. I'm currently using a $40 transmitter for my other boat, and I don't trust it for something like this boat. I think I'd like to get a transmitter that is good enough to keep for a while and use on other potential future boats as well. I'm thinking about one of the Spectrum DX5 transmitters. They seem like a fair price range and high enough quality to last a awhile. Thoughts? Suggestions? I'd like to have telemetry- worth it? or waste of money?


    Strut- What distance from the bottom of the boat do I want to mount this thing? Also, what angle? Should it be 0 degrees from the bottom of the boat?


    Prop- How would an Octura x560 work on this? Good enough starting point? I had a new one given to me, so I have one already. Motor is a HET 700-98-840kv, and I'll be starting 8s.

    I have 2 different transmitters. A Futaba 4PLS and a Flysky Noble. I've been using the Futaba for everything up till now. I haven't tested the Flysky yet with any of my boats ,but my plan is for the Futaba to be used with my 1/5scale baja and the Noble for my 2 Cats and the Hydro.

    Mine is not set yet but from my understand the centerline of the prop should be on the same plain as the sponson ride pads. Degree angle I'm not sure I'm planing on making it parallel to the bottom of the boat. Planning on being able to adjust a little positive or negative when setting up the boat.

    Props I'm not sure what to tell you. I talked to Bill Brant and went with what he said. I have a 2 blade and a 3 blade prop to play with.

  20. #20
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    Thanks, Coop. That's a good start!

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    Default Strut and propeller talk

    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteH2O View Post
    Aside from the questions in the last post, I came up with a few other questions...
    Strut- What distance from the bottom of the boat do I want to mount this thing? Also, what angle? Should it be 0 degrees from the bottom of the boat?
    Here is a quote on YouTube from the comments section in the video titled,
    Radio Control Hydroplane Prop Shaft Installation ? A Better Way!
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hq_kXPyd4I
    Terry Perrott
    Is there a magic depth the strut is set & angle?

    M5 Performance Hydroplanes ? Scott Meyers
    I was hoping you could tell me! No Terry, there isn't a magic number. Every hull is different and rides differently, so the strut must be adjusted in response to what the boat wants. What I can tell you is my typical starting point, which is between 1 1/16" to 1 3/16" deep (centerline of prop shaft to floor), and 1? - 1.5? positive angle (strut deeper at the rear). From there it's anyone's guess. Good luck!

    Terry Perrott
    So if you take a straight edge from the back side of the ride pad on sponson to the transom that would be appropriately the angle of the strut ?? Or even a good starting point.

    M5 Performance Hydroplanes
    Hmm, possibly. To be honest, I've never checked the angle of the plane relative to the ride pads and strut centerline. I'll have to do that. Typically I set my strut to have between 1?- 1.5? positive angle (rear of strut lower than front of strut).

    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteH2O View Post
    Prop- How would an Octura x560 work on this? Good enough starting point? I had a new one given to me, so I have one already. Motor is a HET 700-98-840kv, and I'll be starting 8s.
    The Octura X560 I don?t know if that is a good choice?
    I read somewhere online that for 1/8 scale hydroplanes it is recommended to use propellers with a diameter between 52mm and 57mm.

    I have the following three props.
    Octura X452.
    Diameter 52mm
    Pitch Ratio 1.4
    52 x 1.4 = 72.8 Total Pitch

    Prather Products Inc
    B-240
    Diameter 53.85mm (2.12?)
    Pitch Ratio 1.556
    53.85 x 1.556 = 83.79 Total Pitch

    ABC Props
    H-2215
    Diameter 55.88mm (2.2?)
    Pitch Ratio 1.5
    55.88 x 1.5 = 83.82 Total Pitch
    Mark Vanyo
    Renton, Washington

  22. #22
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    You should contact David Newton. He lives in Renton, Wa. He can help you with many of your questions.

  23. #23
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    Great Lakes gentlemen's agreement for 1/8th scale was Oct. X455, with Neu, lehner, Pletenburg motors.

  24. #24
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    Did you not use solid blocks on either side of the cockpit? I see a trail of blocking to attach ply to. Would def be lighter... My assumption was that those area were solid wood blocks...

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    After a long break of not having a good place to work on the boat - I lived in a 5th wheel while I built my house- I'm back to building the boat. It sat in primer for a long time, but now I'm working on final touches before paint. Just got the rear ride pad things (whatever they're called) made and put on. I'm finishing up fairing and I'll start with paint soon. There is going to be some re-learning everything I forgot while I was taking a break, but I believe I have all the parts and such, just need to figure out where they all go in the hull.

    Meanwhile, I now live on a great lake that is flat calm most of the time. Kayaks, sailboats, rowboats, RC boats, and pretty soon, a 1/8 "scale" Alaska Air hydro. Although I now work for Delta, so a new build is already justified.

    Here is a picture of the lake because posts without pictures are boring.
    20221101_162524.jpg

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhiteH2O View Post
    After a long break of not having a good place to work on the boat - I lived in a 5th wheel while I built my house- I'm back to building the boat. It sat in primer for a long time, but now I'm working on final touches before paint. Just got the rear ride pad things (whatever they're called) made and put on. I'm finishing up fairing and I'll start with paint soon. There is going to be some re-learning everything I forgot while I was taking a break, but I believe I have all the parts and such, just need to figure out where they all go in the hull.

    Meanwhile, I now live on a great lake that is flat calm most of the time. Kayaks, sailboats, rowboats, RC boats, and pretty soon, a 1/8 "scale" Alaska Air hydro. Although I now work for Delta, so a new build is already justified.

    Here is a picture of the lake because posts without pictures are boring.
    20221101_162524.jpg
    Nice looking spot

  27. #27
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    That looks like a beautiful spot. Haven't seen an international moth for years!
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

  28. #28
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    I'm struggling through the painting stage with temperature issues in my garage, so it is taking a bit longer than I thought, but I think I have it figured out now. Progress continues slowly.

    While waiting for paint to dry, I've dug out the box of running gear I have for the boat. This includes a HET Typhoon 700-98-840kv motor, that I'm finding out is a 39mm can. I have a cooling sleeve and a motor mount that are meant for a 40mm can, and I'm finding out that neither of these are going to work. Well, I could probably make the mount work with some modifications, but the sleeve is a no-go. Does anyone have any ideas where to find a 39mm cooling sleeve? I've searched every way that I can think of, and I'm coming up empty. I hope someone here has an idea, because I'm slowly starting to think I need to find myself a 40mm motor instead.

    Also, last week, the mailman was nice enough to deliver me drawings for a 32" Mystic C5000. Once the Alaska Hydro is done, I think I have a new project to start. Either that or rebuild my Hobie 16 sailboat that is full of soft spots and takes on water...

    Peter- The Moth was just given to me a month ago. A friend used to race them competitively in New Zealand decades ago, and has finally decided he is too old to sail this anymore, so he decided it would be a good lake sailboat for me. Its so much fun!

  29. #29
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    You can use a 40 mm can on a 39mm motor, just get some thicker o rings. I did that on a Turnigy fandrive 3996 motor. The O rings need to be 1 mm thicker, i.e. if the existing are 1.5 mm thick then get 2.5 mm o rings.
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

  30. #30
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    Thanks Peter, that is a much better solution to the problem! Not sure why I didn't think of that...

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