Whos making these wire drive coupling systems?

[eXoNerated]

Hi Tyler,
Its no surprise. Alot of this stuff you have to make yourself or piece together like you have. Im looking for an old leaf spring to forge a sharp thin rudder from. The shaft is probably easiest realize by reaming an octura shaft with a 2 mm bore to 3 mm. A .130in. minimum is .127 so she is a little lose to feel good about if the wire is .125 on the nose. I'd want a tight fit instead. We will see. Does the ferrule taper all the way down to the wire or the 5mm shaft?

[eXoNerated]

http://www.h1unlimited.com/hydros-101/

"Back to the question of can a boat be designed to not flip and also be a winner? With the right stability control system, similar to what some fighter aircraft use, yes. For some classes of raceboats, these types of control systems are illegal at this time. Also, it will be very expensive to develop this type of system for a raceboat, well beyond the budget capabilities of most teams. In conclusion, a good boat design and an experienced driver are the best insurance against flipping a boat. But, so far, nobody has built a boat that will not flip."

Thank You
Hubert

PS its too bad you dont like Scale boats. With your skill set I bet youd build a very nice competitive one. Why dont you like them?

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi Tyler, Hubert,
nice tread have you here . Hubert show a boat from me , the double wing with the Neu 2215 motor. This is not a 1:8 scale , it is smaller i think 1:10 .
The shape of the plate Hubert show was not the 400 kw motor . This motor has a plate shape with lots of cut outs for liquid cooling as it has tomstay this power not only for seconds. We designed this motors for powerfull quadrocopter up to the size to lift a tank over a river or lake no need of a bridge or ship and much faster.
Tyler , for SAW i think that the middle section of your rigger is to wide. Give it a think to turn the body 90 degree so that the small side is looking to the watersurface and the airpressure at high speed has less aera to lift the body.
Hubert , have i show you the pics from the Rushian Ekranoplane for raceboat racing ? i will post them next days here. They donˋt flipp they just fly some distance belong to the propeller trust.

Happy Amps Christian

[RaceMechaniX]

Hubert,

I tried drilling stubshafts and struggled to achieve the necessary concentricity between the inner and outer diameter. Admittedly I did not have access to a precision lathe which is needed to hold tenths or better for such parts. I was able to produce about 1 in 20 good parts. Hence I was relieved to find the precision tube. As I mentioned previously Brent Byers on JRCBD has premade 1/4 stub shafts with 1/8" wire which work great, but you will need use 1/4" props or machine the stub shaft down to size. Welded 3/16" flex cable is a lot easier to manage and will work perfectly.

Hello Christian,

My rigger is fairly simple compared to most of the European designs but it works quite well. The width is driven by the side by side battery configuration especially for 10S.
My earlier designs were more streamlined, but did not run as well. The lift of the center body helped.
This was my first SAW rigger below. It was based on my nitro SAW boat which also ran well, but the geometry did not work well for FE due to the extra weight. The sponsons back then were also shared between the two.
P1040312.jpgP1040318.jpg

This is the nitro boat it's based off of.
CMB 80RS-H SAW Rigger 4.jpg828654847_dsc00312_Cropped.jpg

I also built a gas version but never ran it.

DSC_5611_resize.jpg

There are 9 revisions of my current Q/S/T hydro and I am pretty happy with it.

[eXoNerated]

I like what you do T. Christian is my best friend from Germany. I consider him my Brother. He has spent alot of his time teaching me things about the elctric motors that are not in every book. U are both genius and I am very fortunate to have you ear. Very accomplished boaters. I hope I can execute you ideas and be competitive. The goal is daunting. D-12 has very accomplished boaters with years of experience on the podiums. If I could even get close Id be happy personally. Im not a hater and know the current record holder runs faster than his record shows. No ones a fool. Hes here too.

Regards
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

@ Christian
Tyler has alot of power from Hans but if you look at jorgs rigger its wider an longer. If I was tyler id streamline the sponsons and add rake to the hull. If he takes heed to the sponson paper and could get access to the REAL batteries he'd have a real chance. Dont let my German brother fool you T we not getting access to the exact batteries. Christian hold several patents in fuel cell technology. he know quite a bit about batteries and holds for Germany. How could he have too much lift and Jorg hull has a wing profile Chris? Jorg is flying the boat on just the prop. The rear is just like the T4.


LOL!!!!
Love
Hubert

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi Tyler and Hubert,
hey buddy i know Tyler when he visite Munich SAW . i have the highest respect for his worke. He is the one and only competitor who can beat the records and he has done it , you know.
@Tyler,
ok , this boats are much narrow than i had in mind and also the postion of the sponson is what i like. The very forward position of the JAGs sponson need very forward placed waight , not easy to do and to start. For true spnoson are small wing in groundeffect ships and ad lift at such speed and i think better closer to c.g. .

Happy Amps Christian

[eXoNerated]

VVVVVVVVV


Regards
Hubert.

[eXoNerated]

Hi Tyler and Hubert,
hey buddy i know Tyler when he visite Munich SAW . i have the highest respect for his worke. He is the one and only competitor who can beat the records and he has done it , you know.
@Tyler,
ok , this boats are much narrow than i had in mind and also the postion of the sponson is what i like. The very forward position of the JAGs sponson need very forward placed waight , not easy to do and to start. For true spnoson are small wing in groundeffect ships and ad lift at such speed and i think better closer to c.g. .

Happy Amps Christian

Yes Christian I know you know him and he's been there but the world record holders boats tub still has a wing profile and it isnt that narrow. Thats what we are talking about. The boat has alot of rake like a drag bike. Don't need to be in Germany for my eye to work. And still there is no real access to the cells hes using. Tyler consider the custom bridge he has that can carry alot of amps. That's what its really about. The delivery of power. The boats length also seems to approach our length limit. Its at least 3 people wide as they sit there holding it in their hands. Its still a competition Christian and certainly you want to keep the crown there. We certainly want to take it back.


Regards
Hubert.

[eXoNerated]

Hi Tyler,
I have in my mind the general data you provided. It doesnt fit though because Jorg is pulling over 24kW at a launch. Christian knows full power comes at half the unloaded rpm. BIG AMPS PLAY THERE and Jorg is pulling 800 plus amps x 6s packs that will deliver double that. Lehner rates their motors in a different way so there really is no direct comparison. Their KV is loaded. It is the kv taken at the engines maximum efficiency point if Im not mistaken so that's very different from how we rate our best motor here. If my calculations are correct it took in excess of 5 newton meters of torque to accomplish this that Jorg boats does. Try a larger controller with more pitch. The disadvantage is the inverters sink capacity. Chris, not Christian has had a boat with equally good aerodynamics as Jorg in my opinion but this type of power displayed was never there in the controller or the motor. And still a 1530 is not matched to a 2280 but a 2260 instead. The fastest boat in the world is a 6s boat. Amps make the world go around. I doubt his record will ever be taken with an off the shelf controller because the inverters are too large in physical size. A few more caps or a supercap at a lower voltage craft might give you some punch. Thats the whole truth. Build a 1000 amp bridge with logic from a BL Heli esc with 32 bit FW that will fit in your boat. U might borrow a flight controller card as well. With gyro an self stabilizing algorithms it may be very useful in active surfaces. They you can truly fly the boat, with the right attitude. Ultimately the controller doesnt need to be sophisticated with a two pole motor it just needs to handle amps.

Traktionsbruder,
Hubert

[NativePaul]

Power is key, you could say that power makes the world go round. It makes little difference whether you get that power form voltage or ampage, but our gear has limitations on ampage so the more voltage we use the more power is available to us.

Jorg has the outright RC water speed record with his L8 (8s) class rigger, he doesn't run an L6.

Fellow JAGs team member Arne holds the L6 (6s) class speed record using a hull from the same molds, built by the same people, with the same hardware and similar electrics, its record is 13kph slower than the L8 record, and its fastest pass is 27kph slower than the L8 fastest pass.

[eXoNerated]

Id have to disagree as torque is what turns things. Plus that voltage is ultimately limited to 10S so to go faster has to come from amperage The point is 10s isnt the fastest boat in the world so if voltage is truly the way to the highest speed something happened. When you want to turn an increasingly large load no matter at what voltage the amperage has to go up. No matter what we debate here 24kW is what the man pulls and you cant run but 10s so the math is very simple u see. You wont beat him with less aerodynamics a heavier boat and half his power. If it can be done It will be amazing to behold. Even at 8s you will have to generate a few Nm's to turn 90000 rpm at 24kW. The 'torque' in a BLDC machine comes from the amperate draw. I get freewheeling but the voltage truly only goes in one direction...Down. You see the 1s motor make the same power through amperage thus at it dc resitance it can hold over 700 amperes. SAW people cant be restricted to a shelf and win into the future. Jorg is not and he has the fastest boat. The aerodynamics are nice but as Ive said there has been others with very good aero and simply not the power. It certainly seems to me looking at both boats that Jorgs wing profile tub and rear end like a T4 def creates lift and Tylers seems more nuetral to me. His nose is fairly symetrical from top to bottom. His sponsons have relatively flat tops etc. Christian and I dont have the same eyes so we dont see things the same way always. Maybe my brother is right but I see what I see in the profile of Jorgs hull as compared to T's. Jorg has a pupose buit inverter that can deliver the torque to accomplish the job @ 8S. Tyler has no more voltage at his disposal. It isnt magic.

Regards
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

What Tyler shoul be provided more that anything is a support team like Jorg has there. U see all these contributors to this world record boat? Thats the key. If he can work with the US company and truly find an select the same quality cells etc. It can happen. Look at Lehners friend with battery patents helping with batteries and such. Tyler needs that same support if hes to represent the bodies here.

@ Tyler ive been looking at the small jump box cell tech as they are 12 volts per pack and deliver over 1000 CCA's I wont waste my time chasing dreams to get his exact cells. It wont happen unless someone there just decides to give you a gift. There is one man that can do this. Ive asked severeal times and there is no answer so Ive forgotten about that as a viable path to good chemistry. Im trying hard to locate Ivaylo Goronov (spec). Its good to have more than one friend. They will be friendly but honestly they have zero intention of helping you retake the world record make no bones about it. If it is up to them they will set it so far out it would be years if ever it was recaptured.

Regards,
Hubert

[RaceMechaniX]

Hello Hubert,

In full disclosure I am omitting details and data from you that do not paint the full picture of my setup nor of team JAG. I know Joerg, Arne and Gunnar quite well and we exchange details on each others setups regularly, but also treat the designs and data as competitive know how that we do not freely share. The obvious reason is the competitive nature of SAW racing, but the less visible one is safety. We are speaking of 100+mph water darts that can seriously damage property and worse yet harm people. There have been a number of close calls both on the water and on the bench. I was a bit more cavalier in past when it came to safety, but now it's paramount.

The big differences in speed came with technology steps. Joerg, Arne and Gunnar bumped their own record several times over the course of several years from just cracking 100mph to 140mph. They did all this with round cells, but basically the same motor, controller and prop. I chased their record for 4-5 years and it was the combination of motor, controller and most importantly lipo batteries which helped me reach the 143mph mark. Team JAG dusted off the 2004 record setting boat and fitted it with lipos and easily ran 163mph I believe. Since then the team has pushed to find the weak link in the designs and develop those individual aspects like the batteries, controllers and props. Now tipping 200mph they are finding new challenges.

My goal is no longer to try and challenge their 200mph overall record, but continually push my design to newer speeds. Perhaps someday I will go after the ultimate speed record, but it's going to take a step in technology to allow it. Today I enjoy the lakeside camaraderie of SAW racing as much as setting new records. SAW racers are a very small niche group and generally are very willing to share tips, but divulging the secret recipe is not in our general spirit. I will add I have been supported much like Joerg, Arne and Gunnar from the US side. I was very fortunate to be apprenticed by the Grims, Brian Buass, Don Maher, Herny Velasco and others. Without these guys showing me the ropes I would still be chasing 100mph. Today Joerg offers quite a bit of support to me and others, but we also want the self accomplishment of not copying what he has done, but trying new set-ups too.

-Tyler

[eXoNerated]

Oh I wouldnt do that. But I already know through other sources the power levels and rpm seen. And they are far from the power number provided. U see I already knew the number couldnt be right but its all good. Secrets are fine. I dont worry about it because information is useless in the wrong hands anyway.From nearly 4 years ago I have direct line of communication to Gunnar as well. I guess in the future someone will have to pick up the chase. Mine is Scale , S & T sport hydro and it wont stop anytime soon.

From me there are no real secrets. The current can know generally whats coming. Popping the hood is no issue. The hull will be a scratchbuilt balsa/carbon fiber laminate with the active canard and modification to the aerofoil section. As I progress with the build I have no problems posting it for full dissection. It's just a model boat. Nothings more fun than sharing for me. If you have to copy a person to beat them they still won actually.

1989-90_U-10_Winston_Eagle_Hull_8910_10_.jpg



TTYL
Hubert

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi Hubert , Tyler,
yes Tyler is right. The step by step of the JAGs team rigger is the best way and if J?rg would run on 10S he will hit 250-300 mph. But you have always some limitations . How long is the distance to accelerate the boat and after the timing you have to stop. So the JAGs team does the right math to get the right total boat weight to power to get the best for the competition. All count , more cells weight more will need higher power to reach the same speed after the same distance and only if the race course is bigger you can win with this higher power set up. Power is not all. It helps but the right aerodynamics possible help more. Hubert i sent you the article about Limits for Straight Away racing. This is for combustion motors and they start from a turn with plenty of basic speed. They have not this very hard dragracing acceleration that the current record boats use.They all start from laying like a gator in, under the water and then push in seconds up to topspeed. So if you have unlimited power best way will be a dragboat design. The other thing is that J?rg has over years contact to the batterie manufactory and they build this spezial cells extra for his team. As i know they have 3000 mAh and 5000 mAh cells.
So in some case the smaller one are to small and in the other the bigger are to big. The motors are not the limit today. We have designed motor for electric turbo charger that turn up to 250000 rpm. With outrunner designs we have motor/alternators that have to surface speed of Mach2 with no flux limiting bandage in the airgap. And as you know the regulations say 10S 2P , hey that power is incredible , water will cook in time. So you see there are many ways to go and many mistakes to do. We will look to help you to find the right way , but you have to select all this input to your owen mind construction as we do not know what in your brain are the best components and design rules that will be the recodbreaker design. 1983 my Crapshooter with 30 1,5 Ah nicad cells and spezial wound amature motor with brushes was my way to reach 50 mph . Today every toyboat from China can do this speed. So the world is changing and you know that i test many designs and set ups but for some it is better they are secret wonders that are not competiv. Every here has his owen crazy thoughts . Do you know about our front propeller canard boat designs ? This boats run well , do not flip as they have the self trust limiting design. But at the end we are fast but not the winner. We spend many time and thinking and build many prototype to look how it workes.

Happy Amps Christian

[RaceMechaniX]

Christian tell me more about this 250kRPM turbo motor.

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi Tyler,
yes i tell you , but first i show the wing in ground effect boats from the eastern world.

Happy Amps Christian

[Ch.Lucas]

Ok , and now the motor.
It was a basic 3 slot , 3 coil motor design with near closed hammer heads. We put the coils from outside on the stator tooth and press fit all inside a plated ring. After all is glued together we grind the inside dia tomthe right and open with it the hammerheads. More intresting is the design of the rotor. The rotor is more interesting. In order to protect everything against centrifugal forces, we have tested various rotor bandages. First are the carbon fiber bandage. We finished it beforehand on an undersized mandrel and then pushed it onto the permanent magnets with a hydraulic press to ensure a high preload.
The second version got this bandage sleeve made of a non-magnetic steel which was also pressed on hydraulically.
The third version was created by winding a 0.2mm titanium wire. The titanium wire is wound onto the rotor magnets with the appropriate pre-tension and inserted into slots in end disks and pressed for fastening.
The titanium wire version was the one with the thinnest bandage thickness with the same centrifugal force. Bearings Ceramic Hybrid ball bearings (steel rings with ceramic balls) axially preloaded.Thatˋs all.
If you have questions , aske.
And here a pic of a 400 kw outrunner for quadrocoppter that workes as a alternator powered by a gas turbine feeding the rotormotors each 100 kw.

Happy Amps Christian

[eXoNerated]

Thanks Christian basic lessons will help someone...but Since scale is not a open class no wonder motors will be in any scale boat there. The option to pay for a high-speed rotor design has always been available and nothing is new about that . Bottom line I cant use it so my work wont be that simple and I probably won't run a Lehner either. So my option and his are totally different.

Be mindful false numbers never help they hurt. Better to say its proprietary. You already know I do my own math so if the number is not right I will find it and you know that very well. Christian. U can help by turning me onto the real cells or not . Lets not play games. Ok? Thats the only thing I can't achieve on my own about this boat and u know that too. Please don't take it the wrong way but if anything is remotely proprietary just keep it. I can't use it so I'd rather not clutter my mind with open brainstorming. You and Tyler can share it here but I wont comment on 250,000 rpm motors for the scale class. Pipe dreams as far as im concerned. I'm not from Germany so u know this means certain batteries and props will evade me so this also never happens. I dont really have a team I'm just a guy with one good prop man but it seems the Jags team expands Lol. Good thing their boat is not my problem. I'm glad you're enjoying the tread. Maybe the next time Tyler is in Munich ull give him the right motor or the prints but some how I dont think that will fit in the boats.



Thanks
Hubert.

[RaceMechaniX]

Ok , and now the motor.
It was a basic 3 slot , 3 coil motor design with near closed hammer heads. We put the coils from outside on the stator tooth and press fit all inside a plated ring. After all is glued together we grind the inside dia tomthe right and open with it the hammerheads. More intresting is the design of the rotor. The rotor is more interesting. In order to protect everything against centrifugal forces, we have tested various rotor bandages. First are the carbon fiber bandage. We finished it beforehand on an undersized mandrel and then pushed it onto the permanent magnets with a hydraulic press to ensure a high preload.
The second version got this bandage sleeve made of a non-magnetic steel which was also pressed on hydraulically.
The third version was created by winding a 0.2mm titanium wire. The titanium wire is wound onto the rotor magnets with the appropriate pre-tension and inserted into slots in end disks and pressed for fastening.
The titanium wire version was the one with the thinnest bandage thickness with the same centrifugal force. Bearings Ceramic Hybrid ball bearings (steel rings with ceramic balls) axially preloaded.Thatˋs all.
If you have questions , aske.
And here a pic of a 400 kw outrunner for quadrocoppter that workes as a alternator powered by a gas turbine feeding the rotormotors each 100 kw.

Happy Amps Christian

Thanks Christian,

I assume the non-magnetic sleeve was 718 Inco, this is pretty popular for high speed rotors that cannot use CFRP. Very clever thought on wrapping with Ti wire. Did you ever measure rotor heating effects due to eddy currents? CF has only a few watts of losses, but I know Inco is high enough that some type of non-passive cooling mechanism is needed like using the compressed air to blow through the motor gap. At 250kRPM you must be approaching 50-100W I guess.

So the motor was a 3 tooth concentrated pole with 2-pole rotor. 0.2mm laminations or similar thin silicone steel. Did you try Litz wire? Here you start to need 50kHz+ switching frequencies.

-Tyler

[RaceMechaniX]

Thanks Christian basic lessons will help someone...but Since scale is not a open class no wonder motors will be in any scale boat there. The option to pay for a high-speed rotor design has always been available and nothing is new about that . Bottom line I cant use it so my work wont be that simple and I probably won't run a Lehner either. So my option and his are totally different.

Be mindful false numbers never help they hurt. Better to say its proprietary. You already know I do my own math so if the number is not right I will find it and you know that very well. Christian. U can help by turning me onto the real cells or not . Lets not play games. Ok? Thats the only thing I can't achieve on my own about this boat and u know that too. Please don't take it the wrong way but if anything is remotely proprietary just keep it. I can't use it so I'd rather not clutter my mind with open brainstorming. You and Tyler can share it here but I wont comment on 250,000 rpm motors for the scale class. Pipe dreams as far as im concerned. I'm not from Germany so u know this means certain batteries and props will evade me so this also never happens. I dont really have a team I'm just a guy with one good prop man but it seems the Jags team expands Lol. Good thing their boat is not my problem. I'm glad you're enjoying the tread. Maybe the next time Tyler is in Munich ull give him the right motor or the prints but some how I dont think that will fit in the boats.



Thanks
Hubert.

Hubert unless you plan on racing in a German SAW event you will not need the special batteries. You can run 2P in the US and get 90% of the way there without all the hassle. In fact we have an advantage running 2P over the single cells. There is more weight, but the chemistry is quite stable and anyone can buy them from Hobbyking, Dinogy or RoaringTop USA. The SLS cells may have a slight premium over the others mentioned but you will not be able to bring them into the US easily with shipping restrictions.

If you plan on running for an official IMPBA or NAMBA record then you need to use one of the allowed motors. However you can always run you scale boat in the sport hydro class and then just need to meet the basic voltage limit rules. So outrunners of any shape and size would be allowed.

BTW, the high speed motors we are talking about are not for model boats. These are electric turbo's and electric compressors.

-Tyler

[eXoNerated]

I understand T but This isnt a thread about 400 kw motors that have no place in our boats. Christian knows exactly what Im talking about Tyler.

It's very easy to start a thread about marvel motors. But why get side tracked? I want to make an attempt at the scale saw record and this genius posted has no bearing whatsoever on that, but I'm cool with the open sharing that truly has no merit for what I'm trying to do here. I'd want the best batteries no matter where I compete. My thing is there's no need to dangle great possibilities if they are not applicable and have really nothing to do with the topic at hand. The truth is once the numbers become proprietary there's nothing more to be taken from dreamy post. That's the truth T. The power level is 20+kW and the rpm is 90000 i can make real determinations from that.

More importantly our eyes see something different about your boat. The help there is to a point. Never forget that T. Ultimately They push for the overall benefit of the eastern shores not us.

Regards
Hubert

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi Tyler,
magnets sliced for less eddy current, like this from Lehner , one with and one without sleve.
With 0,2mm plates is ok . We had from other project 0.07 mm cobalt iron plates that we used but that was overstyled.
And yes lizwire 400 strands is a must.

Happy Amps Christian

[eXoNerated]

Hi Chris Im still up. No email response..... @ Tyler you always need the best batteries fior the best performance. If turnigy was the ticket hed be running it.

Regards
Hubert

[Ch.Lucas]

Hi,
okay , let us see what boat you will,run and how it performs. Show it at the pond .

Happy Amps Christian

[eXoNerated]

Ok, youve already seen it so Ill let you sew the patch when that happens. Boat and motor on the way. Share ya scratch build side by side. My hood is open. It certainly interesting that you say aerodynamics play more of a part than power in a 24kW boat. As Ive said and wont after this again for fear of being redundant there have been already many great designs aerodynamically and they did not have 24kW and the did not go 200. Those are the facts. Jim Auguston had aerodynamics and designs pegged for fast electric riggers 30 years ago.

Regards
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

How much mail has come to me about building the custom bridge to do this?Do you remember if you have u sent any such email? If you dont have the inverter you cannot see the motors full potential. We can talk all day about that but it really a waste of time because it is what it is and no debate changes that. I still have my view that Tylers boat is more aerodynamically neutral and I still say that after the 400kW thing. To say he has too much lift is a matter of opinion unless you had it in a tunnel. I'm equally free to have an opinion that differs from yours. If your pond metrics still hold from 83 that's cool but it is 2020 and we're in the here and now. So this is my opinion in 2020 and the boat I build belongs to me so if its trash its my trash and that's all good. The most basic aerodynamics will show that Jorgs tub is going to create lift and I stand behind the statement fully. Lift helps the boat in the right place. If it is focused at the CG it shouldn't truly pitch the nose up. Does one need the pond to know that.... be 4 real. You come to the pond Christian and an UN-intimidated American will show you he has a brain also. It doesn't take 11 patents or aerospace instrumentation to know you push the motor way up in Olivers hull to keep the nose down. The standard T4 creates too much lift for straight line speed so there you go on your way to work on that. The best running t4 off a shelf is wooden and its made here and I stand behind that too. It has to be built u cant easily purchase glass this time. In fact I could build the better T4 if I wanted as a plug and then send it to AT in Germany to get back a carbon copy. All your problems are solved that simple.

I dont know the full scoop on your boats data and dont need to to know 10kW aint gonna cut it for the worlds fastest electric powered rc boat. You build this aerodynamically superior boat in all its glory that will run faster with half the power.This would be even more interesting at the pond. There you can show us how that runs and the tangibility of it all.

Regards
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

@ Christian,
While I respect your creativity, I want to add some realism here in my thread. None of these Russian boats that you have published has the speed record for a boat. So why are you only convinced by theory? To get mad here if it is not accepted in the one place, it is not applicable does not make any sense. In addition, most people died while driving these concepts. Is it safe to say yet that they didn't work? As you know, the fastest boat in the world is the spirit of Australia. Now please watch the photo of the boat and tell me that you see exceptional aerodynamics or exceptional power in this boat. And well also the more traditional 3-point unlimited posture. You may be older and superior in thought according to you, but your eyes should definitely work well and you should accept the real results. Over the years of our friendship I have encouraged you to share many times these ideas but you never start this thread. What happens is this and that doesn't get us anywhere. It never has. And this isnt about the accuracy of correlating real boats to a model so if that's next u can save that argument. I don't need that elemental understanding.

Thank you,
Hubert

[eXoNerated]

Wenn Sie all dies und die Tatsache ber?cksichtigen, dass Jags sicherlich nicht alles hat, was Sie vorschlagen. Ich denke, ich mache ein verdammt gutes Argument. Um diese Art der Sch?pfung zu verwirklichen, m?ssen SIE, Christian Lucas, sie bauen und uns allen zeigen, wie sie funktioniert, aber es besteht kein Zweifel daran, dass es nicht notwendig ist, schnell zu laufen. Verstehst du mich? Und jetzt kannst du das tun, weil es zu fortgeschritten ist Ich brauche zu viel Zeit und brauche es nicht, um 100 zu laufen. Sie sehen von 83 bis jetzt, was in dieser Hinsicht getan wurde. Die Zeit wird knapp!

Regards
Hubert