Brushless motor winding class

[ray schrauwen]

Jay,

The leads are all the same length for the three legs. They just go around one set of coils twice, and the other set once. 5.5 turns would be 5 turns on one set and 4 on the other. At least that the best that I can figure it out from dissecting a few motors. BUT like on an 1800 AQ motor. The Y connection is in the front of the motor instead of the rear. That means that some of the wire bundle goes through one slot on one side of a coil twice, but only once on the other side of that same coil. Draw a picture of it entering from the bottom, around twice, and then out the top. See there are 3 passes on one side of the coil and only two on the other side. Almost all of the small spec car racing motors are wound that way. Because of the way they are made, this works out good for them.

Terry we talked about leaving a turn off once before. I tried it but forgot to report about it. I "test" wound a dyna 2000 at 4D and checked the kv, then took one turn off of the last set of coils. Thats easy to do with the cat5 wire. Then retested the kv and it was 150 rpm faster! I should have took a coil off of a second set of coils to see if it upped another 150, but I thought of that to late.

Whoa, I didn't know it was a Y wind!! I've been setting timing all wrong.

Never thought that they would put the joint in the front. So, is the 2030 gold can is Y or D now, I forget?? I think it's a Y with joint at back.

Jay, are you actually doing this? If so are you buying wire from the south or up here?

[ray schrauwen]

Alright blood just shot out of one of me ears? Is that normal?

Me too...

[TRUCKPULL]

UL1 2030 - 2Y

Larry

[donhuff]

re read that and see if it makes more sense now. I had a few numbers wrong..

Remember, your winding coils, three with the same 4' piece of wire,or one coil by it's self with a 4' piece of wire, times 3 per leg

[donhuff]

Larry's right. the 2030 is a 2Y.

And i think that the 1800 would be called a 2.5Y. But I'm not positive on that one.

Larry, DD DDDDDD. What's all that about?? I thought that you were a butt man like me

[donhuff]

Whoa, I didn't know it was a Y wind!! I've been setting timing all wrong.

Never thought that they would put the joint in the front. So, is the 2030 gold can is Y or D now, I forget?? I think it's a Y with joint at back.

Jay, are you actually doing this? If so are you buying wire from the south or up here?

There's that danged TIMING THING AGAIN!!! Did the 1800 burn up at 15* timing.............NO

Forget all that BS about timing for D vs Y . Set them all at the same thing and forget about it, PLEASE!

[TRUCKPULL]

Larry, DD DDDDDD. What's all that about?? I thought that you were a butt man like me

Don - NOT Me - I am still with you!

I think that was Jay.

Larry

[donhuff]

OOPS, sorry Larry your right again!

so Jay is the B O O B guy....

[jaike5]

Ray…. check the thread , I tapped out a few pages back with the lye thing . I have learned a ton of correct information on motors and other stuff from Don. Thanks Don. Ray I'm running a 2014/3 on the wild thing I built 1500kv.
J

[TRUCKPULL]

Ray I'm running a 2014/3 on the wild thing I built 1500kv.

Jay is that a 2014 - 10 -50/3
Or is it a 2014 - 15 - 60/3

Larry

[ray schrauwen]

Oh yeah...

[ray schrauwen]

There's that danged TIMING THING AGAIN!!! Did the 1800 burn up at 15* timing.............NO

Forget all that BS about timing for D vs Y . Set them all at the same thing and forget about it, PLEASE!

I've only partially burnt one 1800 and the others are still fine. Years ago in London Ontario I smoked 2 2030's and 2 esc's in one day.

[jaike5]

Larry, that would be 2014-15-60/3.
J.

[jaike5]

That is correct Don mind you there is a lot to be said for a fine transom !!
Jay.

[T.S.Davis]

Hmmm. 3041 kv. That's a bit much.
20200608_215023.jpg

[ray schrauwen]

Nice job. Did you make that cooling jacket?

[T.S.Davis]

No. That's an OSE.

[RayR]

Don,

When complete and fully stuffed with wire, how much does the the motor weigh? 300 grams?

Thanks,

Ray

[HTVboats]

Ray,
I have a Lep 3660 rewound by Don and it gained 16 grams over the posted stock weight. 251 to 267.
Mic

[donhuff]

That is correct Don mind you there is a lot to be said for a fine transom !!
Jay.

Transom.......... I like that

[donhuff]

Hmmm. 3041 kv. That's a bit much.
20200608_215023.jpg

I like that tach Terry. I bet by being a lazar, it can be used indoors with the lights on.

[donhuff]

Which motor are you talking about Ray?

If it's the 2000, it doesn't gain much because the slots in the stator are so small that you can't add but a couple of strands of wire. But with the AQ motors, they gain a lot because the slots are huge, and they come with so little wire in them to begin with.

Like Mic sez above, his Leopard gained several grams. Part of that is due to it being a 2 and a half wind, to begin with. That leaves a lot of empty space in half of the slots. I picked a kv that was close to the original, but was not a half wind, and that fills the slots better.

[donhuff]

Terry, yeah 3041 is to high to be useful.

You know, like I have said several times! You can do a test wind with a single strand of the cat5 26 ga wire, and the motor will run just the same as it does with a full load of wire. That way you can check kv and not spend a lot of time doing it, and don't loose a bunch of your good wire. But with only a single strand of wire, you can't strain it or run it for very long. Plenty long enough to check it out, just watch for a little smoke from the insulation melting.

Also, you don't have to go through the trouble of soldering on the connectors. Just twist the wires together, and I have and esc with alligator clips on it that makes it super easy to use.

[donhuff]

Are ya'll getting the whole "the length of wire determines the KV" thing?

And mostly how reducing the length of the wire by 50%, will raise the kv by at least 50%.

This isn't exact by any means, but it gives you a rough estimate of where your kv will be going.

TP4040_16-900x900.jpg

using the chart above. Look at say a 2D and a 4D. That would be a 50% reduction in the wire length per phase. Now see how the kv went down just a tad more than 50%!

Take an 8D and subtract 200% from the wire to a 2D. The kv difference is 280% so you see it aint perfect, but it does give you an idea of where your headed.


Man that picture is tiny. Sorry

[T.S.Davis]

I've looked at those Tp charts a 100 times.

That 2D I did was about practicing winding too. I was much quicker this time and didn't screw it up. I suppose I can wind with just a single strand of magnet wire too.

3000kv might make a nice 3s motor. Or maybe a straight down straight back boat. Not sure I'll keep it that way. Kind of a waste of rotor and stator as is.

I have another 3D to do but after that I'll look into a wye wind fer the learn'n. What's a useful turn to try Don? I'll try it without the bundles the first run through. Need to get some cat5. I'm sure there's one in the house here somewhere. HA Xbox? Diss cO nect.

[jaike5]

Oh jeez!! Better do that surgery while Tyler is at work!!

[donhuff]

Terry, I too have looked at those charts a lot of times. Just don't look at them say for a 3630 which is the size for P-ltd, and think that you can use their turn count for your motors. Cause it takes a 10D to get 1950 kv in the TP. That would make an AQ have a kv of like 700. It's different for each motor brand.

You already have one useless high kv dynamite, I wouldn't think that you need two!

If you wind a dyna 2000 at 2Y, it has a kv around 1500.

Yes you can use the winding wire for a test wind. It's just a lot easier to do it with the cat5 and be able to strip the insulation with your finger nail. If you do use motor wire, I suggest that you get a 1 lb spool of a bigger size like 23 or 20 ga. Easier to work with and will carry a lot more amps than a single strand of 27 ga.

[T.S.Davis]

They really did nail it with the Dynamite 2000kv motor. Really is a sweet spot for our application.

Maybe I'll put the 3000 in Pete's new sport hydro, wrap the motor in a welding blanket, and let er rip. Got that little boat figured out now.

[T.S.Davis]

There's an inherent beauty to these in color.20200612_083628.jpg

[donhuff]

Man it's nice to finally see someone trying this stuff, thanks Terry.

Yes I like the way they look in colors! Finally got some cat wire I see. Makes it easy doesn't it. You can get that wire at home depot by the foot with 4-6 pairs in it really cheep.

Testing a 2 delta again? And I see that you did it the dynamite 2000 way. To satisfy me and to show it to you, try doing it with a normal 2D type wind. You can use the same wirea and it should be about the same length. And the kv should come out within 50-100 of each other.

Ready to tackle a Y yet? it's not hard to do with the cat wire.