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Thread: Legitimate records or no?

  1. #1
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    Default Legitimate records or no?

    Hi Guys
    I am just wondering if you would consider these to be legit for records?
    This guy Grahame Haines is the NZMPBA President, running reocrd days whenever he wants pretty much, that being more than one a month this year. apparently only needs to be two people there so no oversight either. It is done with laser timing gear, but really.
    Oh yeah this is the President that crapped on and attacked me personally big time last year and is supported by a committee that seems to lack real sense. But what say you?

    SATURDAY
    1 Grahame, Haines T Tunnel Electric Undefined 01/04/20 07:48 100 m 2.164 166.359 Run up
    2 Grahame, Haines T Tunnel Electric Undefined 01/04/20 07:49 100 m 4.200 85.714 run down Record 126.037 kmh
    3 Grahame, Haines T Tunnel Electric Undefined 01/04/20 07:50 100 m 4.359 82.588 Run Down

    11 Grahame, Haines T Tunnel Electric Undefined 01/04/20 08:17 100 m 0.245 1469.388 WooHoo!!!!!

    15 Ant, Schroder Q Hydro Electric Undefined 01/04/20 07:57 100 m 1.716 209.790 Run up
    16 Ant, Schroder Q Hydro Electric Undefined 01/04/20 07:58 100 m 2.274 158.311 Run Down Record 184.051 kmh
    17 Ant, Schroder Q Hydro Electric Undefined 01/04/20 07:58 100 m 2.260 159.292 run up
    18 Ant, Schroder Q Hydro Electric Undefined 01/04/20 07:59 100 m 2.286 157.480 Run down ave 158.386
    19 Ant, Schroder Q Hydro Electric Undefined 01/04/20 08:32 100 m 2.200 163.636 Run up
    20 Ant, Schroder Q Hydro Electric Undefined 01/04/20 08:32 100 m 2.222 162.016 Run down ave 162.826
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

  2. #2
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    Default

    Run by a national organization with laser timing gear, 2 person minimum so there is a witness, sounds legit to me. I wish we had frequent SAWs here, rather than one a year.

    We don't bother recording single passes or erroneous passes so that 1400kph pass wouldn't show up in our tables, but it isn't a record so doesn't really matter.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  3. #3
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    Hi Paul
    What I think you missed is the anomalies of some of the runs one way. For both 'records', the fast run was considerably higher than the other way or any other runs. Combined with the 1400 kph pass, one would have to conclude there was an issue of some sort going on.

    Would it be strange to any other organisation, that the President runs the event with only maybe one other 'pal' (and maybe the secretary - his wife), is claiming records, is the records collator, and collecting points for President's Cup of which he is also points collator. Does any other organisation have such a lack of independent oversight?
    I get that it is good to have more than one event a year, but there is over 30 days that one person has sanctioned in a year and that benefits... well himself most. It sort of makes a farce of things, especially when other boaters are shunned.
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

  4. #4
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    No other organization would accept these records at face value. SAW racers are a pretty tight knit group and most of us know each other and the legit speeds that we run. There is no official master list taking the best records from all organizations, but SAW racers typically know who has the top record for a class.

    It is not uncommon for records to be set in IMPBA and NAMBA here in the US where there are only several people present and all may be from the same club.
    Also in Germany the organizers and contestants are often the same small group guys whom all know each other and self police the rules.

    So unless Grahame is claiming to be the worlds best I wouldn't bother.
    Tyler Garrard
    NAMBA 639/IMPBA 20525
    T-Hydro @ 142.94mph former WR

  5. #5
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    In the UK the MPBA has a separate committee position of records officer, so the chairman wouldn't be in charge of a SAWs, the records officer is also a SAWs contestant, but there is a few of us regulars that know how to use the system and can take over when the records officer wants to have a run.

    SAWs here at least is a niche part of FE, which is in itself a niche sport and the turnouts are never huge, The biggest event I have attended probably had less than 20 people there, and I have been to a few a couple that only had a handfull present, almost everyone attending is a pal, and those that aren't likely will be soon.

    I don't read much into the differing speeds, on a number of occasions I have been to events in unfavourable weather conditions and have had record setting pace downwind, but have flipped or had to bimble upwind significantly slower to avoid flipping.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  6. #6
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    As a National organization I would think that there were rules / by laws in place to govern their national and local events. Were all the by laws / rules followed? Who tech inspected the boats? Who insured the timing gear was set up correct? Also I would think that a national organization would need to advertise the dates and times of each event and what type event was being held, oval / saw? well in advance of said event so as all members of that organization would have a equal chance to enter / register a boat or two for that event? All comes down to this if all rules were followed then yes, if not NO.
    PROBOAT BlackJack 24", ShockWave 26"
    MRP U-31, 3 tunnels VS1, MRP Bud Light, Dumas HS Sprint

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by JestDanny View Post
    As a National organization I would think that there were rules / by laws in place to govern their national and local events. Were all the by laws / rules followed? Who tech inspected the boats? Who insured the timing gear was set up correct? Also I would think that a national organization would need to advertise the dates and times of each event and what type event was being held, oval / saw? well in advance of said event so as all members of that organization would have a equal chance to enter / register a boat or two for that event? All comes down to this if all rules were followed then yes, if not NO.
    Yep there are rules, that have been twisted to suit one. Pretty much everything you have pointed out was ignored last year. It is the national association President that is doing that, condoned by the committee. Poacher is the gamekeeper! Last year he did everything he could to stop me from winning Presidents cup (and my club from "being able to brag about it"(quote), that included claiming point he was not entitled to (those were taken away by the committee after complaint, but that just enraged him all the more), speed runs were had without notice to any other than a select few, and records and points claimed so he could win. This year there are over 30 days when he (ok and others if they want) can do speed records. So the whole thing has become a farce. Pretty sad really, and destructive. When you have a national association that numbers 52 - 6 life members incl.- what is the point in driving away members. Is this all just a funny joke? Have to wonder aye? But no.
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

  8. #8
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    I know it sounds like I am a little bitter about this stuff, but in reality I am just deeply disappointed at it all. I refuse to let this stuff do any more damage to me.
    It is just beyond astounding how badly some grown men will behave over toy boats.
    I have been a model boater since I got a toy boat for my birthday when I was about 7 years old, it is my thing, the hobby I enjoy, and not limited to FE.
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

  9. #9
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    Win at all cost, unfortunately the very nature of competition brings out the worst in some folks. In years gone by it would have been so dishonorable to cheat in any way shape or form, not so much now a daze, cheat, win and boast about it. Racing was a sport of gentlemen. Back at the dawn of time, when I raced nitro boats I was asked by friends an co-workers is there any money in it? My simple answer was yes, I loose lots of money to go out an play. Their response was why do it? FUN, the trophies and ribbons that hung above my work bench did not remind me of my great accomplishments, but of the FUN I had doing so, fair and square. Don't let the poor sports take away the FUN factor.
    PROBOAT BlackJack 24", ShockWave 26"
    MRP U-31, 3 tunnels VS1, MRP Bud Light, Dumas HS Sprint

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by JestDanny View Post
    Win at all cost, unfortunately the very nature of competition brings out the worst in some folks. In years gone by it would have been so dishonorable to cheat in any way shape or form, not so much now a daze, cheat, win and boast about it. Racing was a sport of gentlemen. Back at the dawn of time, when I raced nitro boats I was asked by friends an co-workers is there any money in it? My simple answer was yes, I loose lots of money to go out an play. Their response was why do it? FUN, the trophies and ribbons that hung above my work bench did not remind me of my great accomplishments, but of the FUN I had doing so, fair and square. Don't let the poor sports take away the FUN factor.
    Thanks Danny. What you say is 100%. Even had the win at all costs in our club last year by a father and son, just so they can get all the trophies. It creates quite a bit of bad feeling with dirty racing and at times broken boats, not what you want from a club day. Oh well, club AGM tomorrow night, see how the cards fall then for this year.
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

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