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Thread: Delta Force 33 won't get up on plane

  1. #1
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    Default Delta Force 33 won't get up on plane

    I bought the boat used after seeing it run. It had a 45mm plastic prop with the strut angled up (lowering the transom) significantly. I leveled the strut to the ride pad, switched to an Octura m445 (balanced and sharpened and thinned just a little, but not further modded) and installed 2s 5000 batteries. But it won't get up on plane. The transom lifts enough to make a big rooster tail, and I can hear a lot of gurgling like it's cavitating or slipping, just stirring the water around without really grabbing. My motor and battery combo gives me around 24,000 rpm.


    I tried moving the batteries from rearmost CG to forwardmost. That changed the angle of the hull as it gurgled around.
    I tried bending the trim tabs to raise the transom. No significant effect. I could go farther, but I already had a couple of degrees down and figured that wasn't going to fix it.
    I tried angling the strut down to lift the stern. That made the boat gurgle around flatter, but that's about it.
    I tried slowly advancing the throttle to let the prop grab. No effect.


    So are M series props known for having trouble getting on plane in draggier mono hulls? Is anyone running this prop or similar in a boat this size?

  2. #2
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    Hi Paul,
    What motor is in the boat? Are your batteries wired in series or parallel?

    That prop works fine on monos with the right set up.
    MODEL BOAT RACER
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  3. #3
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    It had a 45mm plastic prop with the strut angled up (lowering the transom) significantly. I leveled the strut to the ride pad,
    I would give the strut angle negative again and test

  4. #4
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    you hull should get up on the plane with ease. have you left a gap between the prop drive dog and the strut end ? could be badly binding up which will cause a lack of motor rpm,s. also does the motor sound like its reving high if you give the throttle a blast out of water.?

  5. #5
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    Most DF33's I've had experience with were rigged for 4S2P - If this one was rigged for 4S2P from the person you got it from AND you're running 2 X 2S (in parallel by mistakenly using the 4S harness) you're only getting HALF the rpm and probably not enough to get on plane.

    Just for drill check to see that your flex collet is tightly clamping the flex and not slipping
    2008 NAMBA P-Mono & P-Offshore Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder; '15 P-Cat, P-Ltd Cat 2-Lap
    2009/2010 NAMBA P-Sport Hydro Nat'l 2-Lap Record Holder, '13 SCSTA P-Ltd Cat High Points
    '11 NAMBA [P-Ltd] : Mono, Offshore, OPC, Sport Hydro; '06 LSO, '12,'13,'14 P Ltd Cat /Mono

  6. #6
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    Default

    Yes, I have 2 2 cell batteries in series.
    I don't have a tach for boats, but it sounds like it's revving pretty well. It's definitely turning enough RPM to throw water 6 feet in the air.
    Yes, I left about a 1/16 gap at the end of the flex. I also have a Teflon washer there.
    The motor is a Feigao 580 8L. 1649 Kv yields 23746 RPM at 14.4v.


    The previous owner was using 3300 mah batteries so they were a little lighter, but it's hard to imagine that causing such a hard time getting on plane.

    Does negative or positive angle on the strut help with getting on plane? I've read that level is best for handling though, and if this prop is normally enough I'd rather not bandaid it with the strut angle.

  7. #7
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    To address the concern that it may be wired for parallel, I have the two wires coming from the ESC with a single wire connecting the negative and positive leads on the battery. It's not wired for parallel.

  8. #8
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    Might be time for some pictures...
    "Look good doin' it"
    See the fleet

  9. #9
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    Does the complete hull with batteries balance at approx 1/3rd from the rear ? also make the shaft gap 3/16 inch not 1/16th. raising the rear end of strut / prop will lift the front of boat making it easier to get onto the plane, going the other way [ down ] will push the nose into the water making it harder for the hull to get onto plane.

  10. #10
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    Can't say for sure without seeing it, but what you explain sounds like simple cavitation and would normally be caused by the Strut or prop being too high above the water. Lowering the strut, while maintaining a neutral angle should solve this. Again assuming everything else you mentioned here is correct.
    TenShock Brushless / Pro Marine
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  11. #11
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    Try a M545 on it, for my 36'' Delta Force I had same problem, then I also had to change my prop angle. The 445 cavitated too much and keep in mind boat weight. 2 cents worth
    SW26 V3 Green 35mph , Swifter Hydro 26. Delta Force 35. cars ,3 Rustlers 45-76 Mph.

  12. #12
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    I have a few things to try now. So I'll report back with the results. Thanks to everyone who has helped me out so far. I read some other threads too and saw some ideas.

  13. #13
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    Delete please.
    Last edited by Norwest; 08-19-2018 at 12:20 PM. Reason: info

  14. #14
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    would have been much easier to find this issue if pics were added.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
    Yes, I have 2 2 cell batteries in series.
    What batteries- Make, Size (3300, 5000, ETC) C rating (continues and MAX rating)

    A picture of the wiring and setup would be nice also.


    My 33" Delta Force tops out at 60MPH in race setup.
    NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    4S2P - 5000- 70-140C
    Neu 1521 - 1850KV
    Prop- Custom X448/3

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  16. #16
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    The problem turned out to be the dummy who set up the boat. He forgot to calibrate the ESC to the transmitter, then ran the boat and got on here to ask why it didn't work. Thanks to all who helped.

  17. #17
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    Don,t forget to charge the battery too.

  18. #18
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    We've all been that dummy.
    white geico w/2200kv 3674 leopard 53.5mph 4s2p, geico w/ 1800kv outrunner 52mph on 4s2p, genesis w/2200kv castle 53.8 on 4s2p, impulse 31 w/2200kv castle, stock p1 and ul-1

  19. #19
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    I was able to take it out today. Holy crap, this thing is fast. It was pretty bouncy in slightly choppy water, so I think I'm going to need to flatten the hook that's on one side of the hull.

    I went into thermal shutdown about a minute into running it. I have a single water pickup, so I guess I either need to go dual or load the motor less. The stuffing tube comes out right at the V, really as low as it can practically get. So I guess its' possible the 445 is just too big? Maybe back cutting it will do the trick. About 6-7 minutes after it shut down, I blew in the cooling line and felt the water temp was on the cool side of bath water. So maybe 120 degrees or so.


    So is backcutting the way to go, or is there a better first thing to try?

  20. #20
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    I'm attaching some pics of my boat. I included a pic of the prop gap and would like your thoughts on if it's enough. The is a well used .187 flex cable, so if there is an initial shortening or break in period it's well past that. I did the run mentioned above with the strut level and trim tabs level with a bit of down in the right one to counteract the prop torque. The boat ran pretty flat, wetter probably than it should for the best speed.

    20180719_182441_1533429638370_resized.jpg20180804_124143_1533429640402_resized.jpg
    Last edited by jester_s1; 08-04-2018 at 09:11 PM.

  21. #21
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  22. #22
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    The gap between the drive dog and the strut should be a minimum ,- diameter of the cable per foot of length.

    3/16" cable one foot long = a 3/16" minimum gap.

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  23. #23
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    more the battery back and re test in water.

  24. #24
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    Man, your running such a mild setup that it would be hard to adjust the boat to overheat.
    You have either a battery, esc or motor problem.
    What esc and batteries do you have and what’s the condition of the batts?
    white geico w/2200kv 3674 leopard 53.5mph 4s2p, geico w/ 1800kv outrunner 52mph on 4s2p, genesis w/2200kv castle 53.8 on 4s2p, impulse 31 w/2200kv castle, stock p1 and ul-1

  25. #25
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    you shouldn,t have any worries swinging the 445 prop with this 1650 kv motor running on 4s, so why the thermal shut down within 1 minute of running ? what brand and size esc is in this boat ?

  26. #26
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    It's a Turnigy 180A. The watercooling makes a loop through it, so it doesn't look the same as the current one on HK's website. The motor is a Feigo 580 8 turn. Batteries are Gens Ace 2s 5000 about 2 years old. I run them in my trucks too, so they probably have about 30 cycles on them. Do tired batteries cause more heat somehow?

    I did check that I had good water flow coming from the outlet. It's a rudder pickup setup, so I'd think it's pretty reliable.


    How much drag is acceptable in the flex cable? Mine turns with a little bit of resistance, as in if I spin it by hand it will stop instantly as if the grease inside is making it sticky. But it doesn't feel rough or binding anywhere.

  27. #27
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    I'd check the timing and also soldering of connectors!

  28. #28
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    With those older Gens Ace batts, your ESC might be going into low voltage cutoff. These boats should draw over 80 amps. I use 70C batts.
    Ron - The Villages, FL

    https://castawaysboatworx.org/

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by jester_s1 View Post
    It's a Turnigy 180A. The watercooling makes a loop through it, so it doesn't look the same as the current one on HK's website. The motor is a Feigo 580 8 turn. Batteries are Gens Ace 2s 5000 about 2 years old. I run them in my trucks too, so they probably have about 30 cycles on them. Do tired batteries cause more heat somehow?

    I did check that I had good water flow coming from the outlet. It's a rudder pickup setup, so I'd think it's pretty reliable.


    How much drag is acceptable in the flex cable? Mine turns with a little bit of resistance, as in if I spin it by hand it will stop instantly as if the grease inside is making it sticky. But it doesn't feel rough or binding anywhere.
    Sounds like you may have a V1 or V2 T180, which is good. More pics needed though chap so that you can get some better help. Pics of inside and out.
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

  30. #30
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    20180805_145923_resized.jpg

    This is the interior layout of my boat. It had Deans connectors on it when I got it, so I upgraded to 6mm OSE connectors. In case it's not clear, the cooling goes to the ESC, then the motor. I used all medium diameter tubing, and there are no kinks. The cooling water exiting the hull was squirting out several inches when I made a part throttle pass just to check it.

    Norwest- Could bad solder joints on the battery connectors cause overheating? I've heard of bad joints on the motor connectors doing that because they'll mess up the timing, but all I've ever heard of bad battery connections doing is making the connectors get hot. Or do you mean that overheating connectors could cause a low voltage condition? I did find one bad solder joint on a battery that I wasn't using in the test run but I did solder it at the same time I soldered the others. I'm going through them all now and making sure they are good.

    Zooma- The boat was doing the low RPM get back to shore response to the throttle for a couple of minutes, then when I tried it on the bench it went to full throttle as normal. I assumed that meant heat, since it had had time to cool. Wouldn't a low voltage cutoff only reduce the power when the batteries show a problem under load and then recover immediately when they come back up? Also, I use these batteries in my Associated SC10, which is a fairly demanding power system too. I've never had a voltage drop in that application.

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