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Thread: brushed to brushless ??

  1. #1
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    Default brushed to brushless ??

    hi all new to brushless motors i have a scratch built wooden pt boat 45" long 11" beam about 14 lbs im running 2 speed 700 9.6 volt brushed motors on 2. 7.2 5000 nickle metal batterys in series props are 1 1\2 diam. dont know the pitch the boat gets on plane but short run time and the motors get hot i have 2 esc one for each motor they stay cool i would like to go brushless thinking more power and run time what motors \esc thanks

  2. #2
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    What mounting dimensions does your motor mount have, all the 700s I have seen have M4 screw holes on 29mm spacing but many also have M3 holes on 25mm spacing, Brushless motors of suitable power are much more standardised on the M3 25mm spacing, so you may have to redrill your mounts or use an adapter plate to swap over.

    If you are after the same performance but with increased efficiency at planing speeds, a 3674 motor will replace it, and weighs about the same so wont effect your waterline. Do you know the KV of the particular 9.6V 700s you have? The Graupner 9.6V 700 BB turbo is 1354KV and the 9.6V 700 turbo is 1562KV, as you can see there is some variation and yours may be a bit higher or lower than those, but if you went with 1600KV using the same battery and prop you should get similar performance, maybe a slight upgrade but well within the motor's limits. If you want a lot more power those motors are good for about double a 700 will give, but we would need to know more about your props including the pitch to give you any sensible recommendation for KV but up to 25% would be within the motors capability.

    Info on the props would be good, many scale boaters use soldered brass props that will throw blades dangerously if you put a lot of power through them, or plastic props that will flex a lot. I am not big into submerged drive boats, but if you want to put a lot more power into the boat you may want to consider upgrading to solid cast bronze , stainless or alloy props if you don't have them already.

    How do you drive the boat? While brushless motors are a lot more efficient when operating under heavy loads they are actually much less efficient when at very light loads so if you spend a long time at low throttle patrolling at displacement speeds you may find that your runtime doesn't increase or may even go down. If you want a lot of extra performance it will almost certainly go down.

    Do you have water cooling on your motors at the moment? Water cooling coils around the can, and a short length of copper tube soldered to each motor connector can suck quite a lot of heat out of a 700. If you dont have good cooling adding it to your existing motors would be an easy and cheap way to get the motor temp down and add a touch more runtime.

    I am a big fan of not running ESCs near there amp ratings for reliability, I like to keep my peaks under the continuous rating of the ESC. I assume you want forwards and reverse? Not really my forte as a racer I only use forwards, and my scale boat is a slow brushed one, so I would just recommend you buy the biggest one you can find/afford. if you wanted forwards only I would go 120A so your peaks are bellow the continious rating for maximum reliability, but I don't even know if anyone makes one with reverse that high. For what it is worth the most you can pull from a can ferite 700 motor continuously with good cooling is about 40A, and in boats a good rule of thumb is that the peak amps are about double the top speed amps, so if you are running your motors hot you may be seeing up to 80A with your current setup if it is one of the better 700s.
    Last edited by NativePaul; 11-23-2019 at 09:23 PM.
    Paul Upton-Taylor, Greased Weasel Racing.

  3. #3
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    hi thanks for the info the motors are graupner 700 turbo 9,6 maybe the props are wrong .i think the pitch is1 3/4[ 1.73"] but they are soldered brass with 4mm threaded the package says 40mm maybe to big for the motor they are 3 blade what do you think?? and i do run the boat at slower speeds at times
    Last edited by donzi65; 11-23-2019 at 10:01 PM.

  4. #4
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    I would think you would be best to just switch to a lipo battery setup. This is where you will get the desired power and runtime from. It’s like 4x the power in the same pkg compared to nimh. If you are careful or just run some lipo low voltage alarms not real modification would be needed for the boat(ESC’s). Your props may need changed but that is another issue.
    Now to go back and read the rest of Paul’s post, I have not been on here for a bit so I am a little eager to help. Haha
    Shawn

  5. #5
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    hi i think my biggest problem are the props i did not know what to run i still do not know what the motors like for prop size i looked around no info was found . i can change the battery. how do you pick a prop for a given motor? thanks for the input

  6. #6
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    For a big submerged drive scale boat, no idea, sorry.

    The basics are, dropping prop size will reduce motor, ESC and battery heat and increase runtime but will also reduce acceleration and speed, increasing prop size will do the opposite.

    Upgrading to LiPo for more power when motor heat is already a worry sounds like a bad idea to me.
    Paul Upton-Taylor, Greased Weasel Racing.

  7. #7
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    Nov 2019
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    NJ
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    i will add cooling to the motors and try a 36mm prop instead of 40mm and see what happens. now its to cold to run the boats in NJ . thanks

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