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Thread: Seeking advice on setup for a 45" mono

  1. #1
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    Cool Seeking advice on setup for a 45" mono

    I have an AC S45 that's Id like to convert to electric and race it too. The class I want to race it is limited to 4S, 650g battery pack max. So pretty much 5000mah is my ceiling. A standard race on the oval is approximately 80-90 seconds, 5 laps in total......To be competitive I need to be sitting in the 55-60mph. Am I dreaming? If I'm not, what motor/prop/ESC combo would you suggest?
    Dreaming. As stated the hull is way too large for 4S. Speed will be low and runtime short. Boats under 85 cm are the ticket for 4S. The AC45 runs best on 8S to 10S.


    .
    Last edited by Fluid; 02-22-2019 at 08:46 AM.

  2. #2
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    I think you are dreaming, 45" is way too big a boat to be competitive on 650g of battery, I would be looking at about three times that weight for a boat that size.

    Do you have a mill start or a drag start in Nz? If 650g is your limited only way I can see you being competitive is with a much smaller boat in the low 30 inch range, and in calm weather you may be able to get out in front and stay there, but you will likeliest up on your back if you have to do any actual racing, due to the holes the bigger boats carve in the water.
    Paul Upton-Taylor, Greased Weasel Racing.

  3. #3
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    Geez one of Andy’s boats made it down to NZ? Do you have a link to this race class’ rules? Is it all FE? Or like Paul referred, against gas boats.
    BTW, the S-45 is a great boat. I have a Razor 45 which I am doing FE.

    Shawn

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    Quote Originally Posted by srislash View Post
    Geez one of Andy’s boats made it down to NZ? Do you have a link to this race class’ rules? Is it all FE? Or like Paul referred, against gas boats.
    BTW, the S-45 is a great boat. I have a Razor 45 which I am doing FE.

    Shawn
    Shawn, you doing another twin mono? I just got a slayer 45 one of Andy's last boats he made. Got me a lehner 6080 and MGM 40063 coming. Please keep us posted on your build. I need to decide on a prop to start with

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by meangenesracing View Post
    Shawn, you doing another twin mono? I just got a slayer 45 one of Andy's last boats he made. Got me a lehner 6080 and MGM 40063 coming. Please keep us posted on your build. I need to decide on a prop to start with
    Yeah I was going thru his back shed and acquired a few things. I think the 2028 in this one. Just a solid strong runner. I have a 3060 LMT as well.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by srislash View Post
    Yeah I was going thru his back shed and acquired a few things. I think the 2028 in this one. Just a solid strong runner. I have a 3060 LMT as well.
    Ha Ha, I have a 2028 as well put it in the R42 gave up on twins. lol

  7. #7
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    Typo on the lehner it's a 3080. Not 6080. Lol

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    Quote Originally Posted by meangenesracing View Post
    Typo on the lehner it's a 3080. Not 6080. Lol
    I knew that, lol

  9. #9
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    Thanks all for your replies. Great eye opener!

    I might look at a delta force 33", is that a good hull? I run the 53" and love it

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by srislash View Post
    Geez one of Andy’s boats made it down to NZ? Do you have a link to this race class’ rules? Is it all FE? Or like Paul referred, against gas boats.
    BTW, the S-45 is a great boat. I have a Razor 45 which I am doing FE.

    Shawn
    There are quite a few of them here Shawn. I think someone made a mould and produced a few. It happens here because it is so costly to get hulls.

    Upsidedown, where are you in NZ? The DF33 would be a great start, but where do you get 650g for batts in NZ? that sounds like the Aussie rule for their EA class. Here it is either 5000 or 10000 mah depending on who you run with or what club/organisation.
    BTW I have a Pursuit, Whip 20 and Dumas Scarab 30" for sale, message me if you are interested. I am in Tauranga.
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpsideDown View Post
    Peter, I'm from NZ but spend most of my time in Oz. I'm looking at the DF33 or the OSE raider, I need to do more research
    OK. Maybe Paul (785boats) can chime in and lend some good advice. Any 4s set up for OZ is ok to run back home. We probably should be more in sych, but you know how it is, under arm bowl, Phar Lap, pavlova....Lol!
    NZMPBA 2013, 2016 Open Electric Champion. NZMPBA 2016 P Offshore Champion.
    2016 SUHA Q Sport Hydro Hi Points Champion.
    BOPMPBC Open Mono, Open Electric Champion.

  12. #12
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    UpsideDown.
    Hi there.
    Where in Oz are you based? I'm in Brisbane.

    The DF Cyberstorm is a popular boat at our club in the EA class. As is the Pursuit. I've built & raced them both. I also have my Maverick, which is the same hull that OSE sells as the Raider.
    All three are competitive.
    A good solid setup is a TP 4050 2200kv motor with a Seaking/Turnigy 180A ESC.

    As for the 650g limit on lipos. I race with HRB 6000mah packs. But Entropy & Gens Ace 5800mah packs also come in under the limit. There are others too.

    Here's our race club if you are in the Brisbane area.

    https://www.facebook.com/prmpbc/

  13. #13
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    6000 mAh and 90 sec. means that you boat is allowed to consume 240 A average = 3600 watt or close to 5 hp.., (but it might kill your lipo). Its possible to use that energy in a 45" boat. But probably in a 32" ?

  14. #14
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    (45") TP 5650 4D/2458 kv = 36400 rpm at 14,8V.. Thats about 400A peaks with a 55 mm prop = real 100c lipo, AWG 8, 8mm connectors.

  15. #15
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    650g limit. You may be able to find something 8-10.000 mah.
    https://www.gensace.de/gens-ace-8500...se-lipo10.html

  16. #16
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    Thank all for your replies. The more I read the more i realise that the 45" hull is not doable. I managed to get hold of a Pursuit and I figured that would be a good start for me. I have an el cheapo flycolor 150A lying around which should hopefully do the job until I get something better.

    785boats I am based in NSW. I would assume with the pursuit the stock shaft needs to be upgraded to 3/16. You mentioned the TP 4050 2200kv is a good option for it. Which prop runs best on that setup? Thanks again for yr help

  17. #17
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    The Pursuit normally comes with a 3/16" flex fitted, however it is a 2 piece drive shaft where you must remove the stinger to access the drive assembly for cleaning & greasing. This is why most upgrade the stock shaft to an after market 1 piece which makes greasing simple.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by UpsideDown View Post
    Thank all for your replies. The more I read the more i realise that the 45" hull is not doable. I managed to get hold of a Pursuit and I figured that would be a good start for me. I have an el cheapo flycolor 150A lying around which should hopefully do the job until I get something better.

    785boats I am based in NSW. I would assume with the pursuit the stock shaft needs to be upgraded to 3/16. You mentioned the TP 4050 2200kv is a good option for it. Which prop runs best on that setup? Thanks again for yr help
    It's a shame you are not up here. Our club is always looking for new members.

    As Martin stated, changing the flex to a one piece shaft makes servicing it so much easier.

    The props I use are the Octura X440/3 blade, or a CNC 4214/3 blade, or an Octura M445.
    Last edited by 785boats; 02-23-2019 at 02:37 PM.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nevs View Post
    6000 mAh and 90 sec. means that you boat is allowed to consume 240 A average = 3600 watt or close to 5 hp.., (but it might kill your lipo). Its possible to use that energy in a 45" boat. But probably in a 32" ?
    Sven.
    We don't run the full 6000mah out of the pack. There's still around 25% left in my packs at the end of the race. And that includes a mill lap and a wind down lap too, for a total of 7 laps. So the amp draw is not as high as your calcs would suggest.

    Unfortunately, with those Gens Ace 8500mah packs you posted a link to, the 4mm plugs melt off in the packs during a race. At least every other hardcase pack like them has, when people have tried them.
    Plus two of them to make a 4s pack, in Australian dollars is $272.00, plus postage. Way too expensive for my taste.
    An HRB 6000mah 50c -100c pack is AU$85.00 to my doorstep.
    Unfortunately, economics plays a huge role in this game.
    Last edited by 785boats; 02-23-2019 at 05:12 PM. Reason: wrong price for the HRB pack.

  20. #20
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    Thanks mate for the prop suggestions.

    This it the pack I have lying around at home which I'm hoping to use. Too much? too heavy for that hull?

    https://hobbyking.com/en_us/turnigy-...ck-w-xt90.html

    Regarding the brass tube. Do you normally pull the teflon liner out and grease the shaft? Or just leave the liner in and oil the shaft. I'm used to running the brass tube all the way through the stinger and then jam a speedmaster flanged bush. I can't handle those lead teflon bushes.

  21. #21
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    The flexshaft may become abit too sloppy if the liner is removed from shaft log. either replace the log with a smaller inside diameter if you don,t want to use a liner or leave the liner in and just cut it short to house the floating strut bushing. oil or grease is personal preference.

  22. #22
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    Those packs will be fine if the weight is correct.

    I have built boats both with & without liners. I personally prefer the liners.
    So if you want the liner to remain, simply cut a short piece of 1/4" tube to fit into the stinger & use the floating bush.
    If you don't want to use the liner you must, as Roland said, remove the stuffing tube & replace with a smaller 1/4" tube.
    That is of course, if the flex shaft is 3/16". Have you measured it?

    I don't like the idea of running the stuffing tube all the way through the stinger or strut. It makes it impossible to adjust the angle of them to trim the boat.
    I always make the tube long enough, out of the transom, to enter the stinger or strut by about 10mm, and use a separate piece of 1/4 tube in the strut for the floating bush if I am using one of them.

    Here's a bit of a thread from some time ago, that might interest you.

    https://www.rcgroups.com/forums/show...rstorm-Pursuit

  23. #23
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    A motor you can try with the flycolor 150 is a leopard 4092 1730 kV and a octura m447 prop. That's a fast 4s setup. A tp 4060 1950kv with a m545 is a little faster than the leopard setup that I mentioned above but I am not sure the flycolor 150 can handle a full race without issues.

    For that reason I suggest the leopard 4092 1730kv, paired with a m447.

  24. #24
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    Paul that thread was great

    I like the idea of a higher kv motor and a smaller prop but yes your suggestions are great. Regarding the teflon liner, if you haven't had much issues with it, I might sick with it then.

    I'm trying to finish a shopping list. I'm thinking

    1) Leopard 4074 2200kv
    2) Swordfish 220A https://rcboatbitz.com/product/sword...v=6cc98ba2045f Joe doesn't have it in stock so I'm looking around.
    3) safety loop
    4) 4214/3 prop https://rcboatbitz.com/product/42mm-...v=6cc98ba2045f
    5) Cooler https://rcboatbitz.com/product/40mm-...v=6cc98ba2045f
    6) Mounts https://rcboatbitz.com/product/40mm-...v=6cc98ba2045f

    I am a sucker for 3 bladers, I don't mind losing a bit of top end to gain that extra handling in the corners.


    I really like your idea of stiffening the hull with carbon tubes. How far up the bow did you go with the tubes?

  25. #25
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    Actually over the last couple of years I have been leaning towards lower kv motors & larger more efficient props on my bigger boats. this tends to reduce the amp draw a bit.
    But in the smaller hulls like the Pursuit, a prop too large can instill a bit of prop torque & prop steer.
    The suggestion of Speed3 are also good setups.
    I have a 33" boat with a TP 4050 2000kv & seaking 180A ESC that runs an M447 or a detongued 445/3 blade. The torque roll is noticeable though.

    Your shopping list looks good. However, I prefer TP motors over Leopards. The only motors that have failed on me over the years have been Leopards. A TP motor in the same boat with the same setup just keeps on going.

    The main reason for the carbon fiber tubes is to give more gluing surface for the motormounts & the battery tray. But yes, it also stiffens the hull.

    Why not pay a visit to the club you are going to be racing with & see what sort of setups they use in this class. I'm sure they will be helpful.

  26. #26
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    I have recorded data on many motors in different sizes, many different size props.

    What I have learned is the different can sizes and kV has they place.

    I suggested the 4092 1730kv and the m447 because the it was stated that a battery capacity limit of 5000 to 6000mah is involved and also the op started he has a flysky 150 ESC.

    The 4074 2200kv paired with a 4214 3 blade will draw more amps than the 4092 1730kv paired with a m447.

    And it is likely to the significantly slower.

    I can see the 4074 2200 reving 23500 to 24000 rpm loaded with the 4214 3 blade prop. Maybe even lower, depending on the electrical connection and quality of battery.

    The 4092 1730 will rev around 23000 to 23500 rpm loaded with the m447.

    The m447 will be more efficient than the 42mm prop.

    So the two motors reving close loaded except one is turning a bigger more efficient prop and pulling less amps.

    The 4092 will also turning the smaller prop a little faster, just as fast or a little faster than the 4074 2200 loaded. But have much more runtime.

    Now the 4074 2200 has it's place where it would be superior. If you was running a 25 to 26 inch boat turning a 37 or 38mm prop then the 4074 2200 would be much faster.

    The important thing with running the bigger prop is getting your trim tabs set right.

  27. #27
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    Speed 3, your logic/experience makes perfect sense. I will be upgrading to the swordfish 220A ESC when I can find one in stock in Oz.

    Thanks again for your advice, it will be a nice learning curve for me.

  28. #28
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    Holy mother of all hooks. Is this normal for the pursuit?! There's a hook on one side and a bulge on the other. To sand it down I think I'll find myself inside the hull.

    IMG_20190228_182602.jpg

  29. #29
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    That one needs filling.
    Is the rocker on the other side, right under where something has been glued into the hull on the inside?

    The three pursuits that I have built up haven't had that. But I start with bare hulls.

  30. #30
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    yep I suspected so. I kept looking inside to see what was pulling the bottom but there's absolutely nothing.


    Do you use gel coat filler? and then a bit of clear coat on top once the bottom is true

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