Avoiding Problems with the UL-1 Hydro

[Fluid]

One thing that needs to be remembered - although I doubt it has any significance with the UL-1 - is that when moving the pushrod to an outer hole on the servo horn you lose steering torque. On large heavy boats or very fast boats this can mean the difference between having enough turning and not having enough, since the rudder can overpower the servo.

I've had this happen on P Sport hydros when using the cheap Futaba 3001 servos with their limited torque value. Substituting an 80-ounce servo returned the hydros to their good steering response. I believe that many steering problems that folks report are due to inadequate servos. Also note that you can increase your servo's steering torque by ~20% when using a 6 volt receiver pack.



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[birdy233]

Quick, question, should I need to re-adjust my strut from box stock factory set up? I ran my UL-1 for the first time today and thought I bought a submarine instead. The front would plow under the water and I could on get it somewhat on plane only if I tossed it, even then it was pathetic as my recovery boat was faster. I'm running a set of Team Orion 3800, 30C race Spec packs, but it seems it's way nose heavy, any thoughts?

[Raydee]

Quick, question, should I need to re-adjust my strut from box stock factory set up? I ran my UL-1 for the first time today and thought I bought a submarine instead. The front would plow under the water and I could on get it somewhat on plane only if I tossed it, even then it was pathetic as my recovery boat was faster. I'm running a set of Team Orion 3800, 30C race Spec packs, but it seems it's way nose heavy, any thoughts?

That is very common with sport hydro's that have the CG up front. Here is a little trick i learned a while back, blip the throttle just enough to raise the front end and let off. Once the nose drops down and starts to pop back up nail the throttle and the hydro will jump up on plain. I might have a youtube vid showing exactly what I mean, let me go look.

[Fluid]

....should I need to re-adjust my strut from box stock factory set up?....front would plow under the water and I could on get it somewhat on plane only if I tossed it, even then it was pathetic as my recovery boat was faster.....

Ray's comments on starting are very good, but I am concerned with your statement that even on plane it was slow. This latter may have to do with the strut setting or something else.
A few questions:

Are you running the stock prop?
Are you running the stock radio?
Are you using the stock pack wiring harness?
Have the LiPos worked well in other boats?
What was the approximate temperature of the LiPos when you started?
How is your strut set up now?

The bottom of the strut on my UL-1 is 7/8" below the hull and angled down about 1-2 degrees at the prop. Set you model on a flat table and measure.



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[birdy233]

Thanks for the quick responses, It was a bit choppy out today, but the boat seemed like it was way heavy up front, the whole front of the boat went under the water. I'm not new to boats, I've owned three or four SV27's several BJ26's, Warehouse Enforcer, BJ 55 to name a few. This is the first hydro I have owned though.

As for the questions, I'm running stock strut setting, measured 7/8" from the bottom of the hull to bottom of the strut angled down about 2 degrees

I am running the upgraded Grim 40X57X3 prop, stock radio, pack wiring harness is stock, Lipo's are brand new (I did run them once on my Traxxas Slash, the packs are fine, temps on the packs, well, I charged them and headed out to the pond, it was about 80 here in Dallas today so I assume close to that temp. So I am stumped, I was thinking about trying the stock prop for the heck of it tomorrow.

One other thing I'm not impressed about on my boat, there is numerous HUGE paint runs all over the sides of the boat and one side near the transom was molded wrong so there is a swoop on the side/bottom of the hull, for $330 I'm not happy. I've seen my 5 y/o nephew paint better. I may need to contact Aquacraft/Grim on these issues.

[Ub Hauled]

Jay, Birdie, Tony (properchopper) had the same problem with his UL, his lipos were a bit on the heavy side and the boat
would not get on plane... we tossed it and then it was slow as hell... I think the stock prop is not the most suitable for a heavier boat.
We ended up changing the prop to an X442 then it would take off (with the little trick Ray mentioned) but still is not unwinding... we ran out of batteries that day, tomorrow we'll test again with a little setup change (strut) and see how it goes... I am sure we'll get it going tomorrow. Maybe the 442 is also not the best choice, but now it doesn't have to be thrown.

[birdy233]

Jay, Birdie, Tony (properchopper) had the same problem with his UL, his lipos were a bit on the heavy side and the boat
would not get on plane... we tossed it and then it was slow as hell... I think the stock prop is not the most suitable for a heavier boat.
We ended up changing the prop to an X442 then it would take off (with the little trick Ray mentioned) but still is not unwinding... we ran out of batteries that day, tomorrow we'll test again with a little setup change (strut) and see how it goes... I am sure we'll get it going tomorrow. Maybe the 442 is also not the best choice, but now it doesn't have to be thrown.

Well I call BS, or Aquacraft needs to explain and send a refund check to me for the $230 I laid out for my Lipos. The stock battery they recommend weighs 6.2 oz, the optional upgrade battery printed in their manual weighs 9.2 oz, my pack which I just bought specific for this boat weigh in at 8.6 oz per pack. My pack weight should not be the issue, seems like a strut issue or cg issue, if it's a pack weight issue, someone has some explaining to do!

[Ub Hauled]

Birdie,
try extrapolating the positive strut to 4 degrees and nailing the gun... maybe you'll get enough momentum to get outta the hole, if she gets a bit too lose, at least you can take a degree off to try to make up for it... I was talking to Tony about something else as well, maybe if push comes to shove you can use a different motor mount and take that bar away from the middle so you can push your packs back a bit.
I wonder what B. Buaas faced on his maiden voyage...

[egneg]

I ran my boat for the first time yesterday stock except for the prop which was a M445 (mentioned by Brian B in another thread). It did take a couple of trigger pulls to hook up but once it did it was fast (GPS'd at 44.2 mph). I had 2 x 2s1p polyrc 4250's at 7.4 oz each. The upgrade 40x57/3 I believe is a lifter prop and when I tried a V940/3 also a lifter prop it turned into a submarine.

[properchopper]

I ran my boat for the first time yesterday stock except for the prop which was a M445 (mentioned by Brian B in another thread). It did take a couple of trigger pulls to hook up but once it did it was fast (GPS'd at 44.2 mph). I had 2 x 2s1p polyrc 4250's at 7.4 oz each. The upgrade 40x57/3 I believe is a lifter prop and when I tried a V940/3 also a lifter prop it turned into a submarine.

I had the submarine experience with the 40X50/3 also, [ with some fairly heavy Elite 2S 4800's]. Switching to a Bar cut X442 got 'er going pretty good. I've re-adjusted the strut & just got some smaller & lighter Elite 35C 5000's inside now & will try the M445 today. How were your temps ?

Tony

[Raydee]

Tony let us know how the 35c Elite's work in that hull. We are planning to use them in our UL-1's this season.

[properchopper]

Tony let us know how the 35c Elite's work in that hull. We are planning to use them in our UL-1's this season.

Ray, as soon as I laid eyes on them last week in Jan's hydro, I had to jump on them. They're smaller & lighter than the leftover Elite 25C 4800's I used last week.
I'll post some results tonight.

Tony

[LuckyDuc]

You might also consider Xcite Packs. I've used these in my EDF jets and they hold voltage better than Thunder Power Extreme packs, and are pretty reasonable price wise.
Their 4100mAh packs weigh 203g and their 4800mAh packs weigh 270g.
http://www.xcitebattery.com/newfrontpage74V.htm

[egneg]

I had the submarine experience with the 40X50/3 also, [ with some fairly heavy Elite 2S 4800's]. Switching to a Bar cut X442 got 'er going pretty good. I've re-adjusted the strut & just got some smaller & lighter Elite 35C 5000's inside now & will try the M445 today. How were your temps ?

Tony

I forgot my temp gun so I don't have accurate readings but the motor and esc were only warm and the lipo's a bit warmer but not hot to the touch after 2 or three minutes.

[Raydee]

Ray, as soon as I laid eyes on them last week in Jan's hydro, I had to jump on them. They're smaller & lighter than the leftover Elite 25C 4800's I used last week.
I'll post some results tonight.

Tony

Yeah I plan to try them in my Whiplash Hydro this season too. I was running 4s2p3200mah cells and they were Ok but I am going to try two of the Elite 2s5000mah packs in series and see how they handle in that hull. That way I can use the same cells in multiple boats and cut some of my pack costs down a bit.

[properchopper]

Ray, here's the scoop : Put the 5000's in the boat with an M445. OhMiGod !! Totally different boat than with the older but well taken care of 25C 4800's. Lots of wind & chop & the boat was flying. Put the 4800's back in to weigh down the front some[they're heavier & longer] it was and Boring !! Later in the day the water layed down some; put the 5000's back in & with the M445 the boat was almost too much to handle. Then [there still was a little wind] she blew over & ripped the turn fin out of the hull. Bummer but fixable. [Jan should be posting some vids by this evening]. Do I like these batt's ; Hell Yeah !!

[birdy233]

Well, took mine out today, put the stock prop back on and bingo, worked great, GPS'ed at 43.8 with the orion Lipos.

For the heck of it tried the upgraded prop again, adjusted some on the strut, no luck, that prop for me just does not work, what a waste of $20

On a good note what a great handling boat, sticks to the water like it's on rails!

[Fluid]

Jay, Birdie, Tony (properchopper) had the same problem with his UL, his lipos were a bit on the heavy side and the boat would not get on plane... we tossed it and then it was slow as hell... I think the stock prop is not the most suitable for a heavier boat.

Jan, I really doubt that the problem is too much battery weight. My TP5000s weigh about 9 ounces each, and I have no problems getting up on plane and speeding away. Brian wasn't using light weight cells at the SAWs and his never subed. I suspect that the problem most guys are having is with the strut setting. Don't freak out and condemn Aquacraft! If you are not familiar with how to trim out a hydro just ask. Hydros are not like monos...

The bottom of my strut came 7/8" below the hull and angled at most 1 degree down at the prop end. If you are having trouble getting on plane you can simply flatten the strut. You do not want to angle the strut any more or you'll never get on plane! A flat strut is the default setting; if the bow flys then angle it down a bit at the prop end. It won't take much. If the boat runs too hard on the water raise the strut 1/8". Several guys have e-mailed me about problems getting up on plane, and in every case a minor strut adjustment was all it took regardless of the packs used.

Different props can cause trouble getting on plane too. Screw on a lifting prop combined with too much strut angle and you'll never get on plane. If you are using a lifting prop, flatten the strut. You may even need to run the strut up a degree at the prop end. Actually I believe that the "best" all-around prop may be an m445 or K45, all things considered. It will take some additional testing to find out for certain. The x442 is pretty small, I doubt it has enough blade area to load the motor enough.

BTW all strut adjustments must be done on a flat surface like a table. The hydro should rest on the sponsons and the strut. The strut angle will be between the bottom of the strut and the tabletop. Don't try to do it "by eye", it won't work.


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[Ub Hauled]

Jay, I totally agree with you about the prop, we tried a 445 today and man... was that thing alive!
The strut was at zero, that was not the problem, on a more extensive look to the problem, we realized the batteries that Tony was using were not up to par, either not enough charge or just weak, we used a pair of 5000/35C Elites today with the 445 and the same strut setting and the thing was hauling. We are not blaming anyone, just stating what happened... I had the chance to
drive the UL for a while and it is a very nice handling lady!
Jay, I don't own any monos

[Fluid]

We are not blaming anyone, just stating what happened...

I know you weren't Jan, but others in the thread were starting to blame AquaCraft. My post was really meant as a general comment to all readers.

It is interesting that you found Tony's packs to be sub par....another boater e-mailed me with problems very similar to yours, but when he charged the packs again the boat ripped. I guess it is another example of how different a hydro is from a mono - the latter will at least get on plane with low voltage packs, the hydro may not.


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[egneg]

Thanks for the info Fluid!

I checked the strut and found that it was 1" below the hull and 3 degrees down on the prop end. I also found that the rudder was angled back 3 degrees as well. This explains why it nose dived with the V940/3 and with the M445 it was quite loose once on plane. I will make some adjustments and run again.

[Fluid]

Yes, the v900 series props are lifting props and need a flat strut. It still may be tough to get the boat on plane, those props are really SAW props, not well suited for oval racing or general sport running. Sometime in the future I plan on trying them just for fun....


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[Ub Hauled]

I know you weren't Jan, but others in the thread were starting to blame AquaCraft. My post was really meant as a general comment to all readers.

It is interesting that you found Tony's packs to be sub par....another boater e-mailed me with problems very similar to yours, but when he charged the packs again the boat ripped. I guess it is another example of how different a hydro is from a mono - the latter will at least get on plane with low voltage packs, the hydro may not.


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I thought it was not meant directly at me, but I just wanted to get things cleared out...
don't like when people get the wrong impression from my already troubled English grammar

Jay you should have seen her with the "bad" packs, it was like a dear or dog just hit by a car limping away... it was asking to be taken out if it's misery. «-- maybe a bit exagerated but you get the point.
But it surprised me with the 35C cells on an M445.

[Grimracer]

Quick, question, should I need to re-adjust my strut from box stock factory set up? I ran my UL-1 for the first time today and thought I bought a submarine instead. The front would plow under the water and I could on get it somewhat on plane only if I tossed it, even then it was pathetic as my recovery boat was faster. I'm running a set of Team Orion 3800, 30C race Spec packs, but it seems it's way nose heavy, any thoughts?

Dont Pussy the throttle... its a hydo for gods sake... drive it like one......

Grim

[Grimracer]

Also let me state..

If you have bad batts.. (truth is I have tested allot of "questionable" batteries) and I gota tell ya.. Some that claim 30C.. not even close.. Just an FYI..

Our EF and FP batteries are very good.. the C ratings are dead on... If.. you are getting a "deal on batters" just be mindful of what you might be getting.

Also.. if you are new to hydros having a lack of understanding how they work.. how does that fall on my shoulders? We/I do all I can to design the best product we can. We also do our best to take as much of the guess work out of the boat as we can.. We all we can to make sure the door is open (Hobby Services) as well as Hobbico allowing me time to come and chat with you dudes..

Calling out BS… you have my attention..

As for the bad paint.. you have the option before running the boat to return it for full refund.. this is stated in the manual, and I can not think of one hobby source that would balk at not taking care of you. But because you have ran the boat the best you can do it contact Hobby Services and see what they can do for you. I bet.. they can help..


Grim

[properchopper]

I just gotta' say this is one FANTASTIC boat, and reflects years of experience and racing knowledge. That Grim & company put out this boat, at an unbelievable price for all you're getting, is not to be taken lightly. To mass produce something like this, and allow FE novices { and racers alike} to get on board with the "real deal" should be heartily applauded. Further, I firmly believe that behind this effort is an openhearted invitation to those that want to get into the hobby for the first time, and allow anyone that wants some adrenaline therapy to jump in without breaking the bank. Before this boat and it's predecessor, the SV-27, nothing even came close. Sure, at this price point there may be some cosmetic imperfections, but anyone that's bought some rather expensive European hulls have suffered the same fate for lots more moola.
Finally, Hydros may require just a little more tweaking of the setup than monos and everyone should be both aware and patient of this issue. No boat will be perfect out of the box given variations in props & batteries that are dropped in by various boaters. To this end, there's plenty of help on the forums as well .
I'm certain that it took a lot of heart & some big cajones to get this product to market, especially knowing that some backlash would occur.

Be Patient,Be Happy, & Let 'Er Rip

Tony
WTF, Run Amuck

[Fluid]

I'm running a set of Team Orion 3800, 30C race Spec packs, but it seems it's way nose heavy, any thoughts?

Actually, the boat is not nose heavy when using a more aggressive prop than the factory one. With two 2S/5000mAh ThunderPowers (not light cells) the CG is about 2.7" behind the sponsons. My personal LSH and P Sport hulls have the CG within 1.5" or less of the sponsons to help keep the boat on the water at speed. The UL-1 has so much lifting area that I believe that we can use the heaviest cells we can fit to keep the boat on the water. Air dams and lead weights are cheaper means of preventing blow-overs, but at least right now I believe that low-weight packs are not a solution to anything for those wanting more than strock speeds.

I may try an experiment with a 4S2P setup, my 3300 mAh ThunderPower packs will fit under the hatch in place of the 2S/5000s. Actually, I just checked and the 3300s will fit cross-wise in the hull, so I can move the CG forward with a single 4S1P pack - or use two for 4S2P and more balast. Hmmm....



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[Raydee]

Dont Pussy the throttle... its a hydo for gods sake... drive it like one......

Grim

That is going to be one of the main problems releasing a RTR Hydro. Some of the guys that buy this boat probably have never run a hydro and will expect to run it like the super vee. They don't know that the hydro needs to be run at full throttle and turn RIGHT only. A hydro is a race hull and needs to be run like one.

[Ub Hauled]

Huh?! Did anybody say hydro?