will this combo work out mathmaticaly

[Crash]

I got data recorder to work.
You have to run the program as Administrator and then it works .
I found a post here at OSE about it.

the data record says I am pulling 255 amps at 100% throttle
lipos are dropping down to 19.6 during 100% throttle
temps are 150f max
rpm is 30k+ at 100% throttle

it seems the amp draw is too high...what do you guys think

[TRUCKPULL]

I got data recorder to work.
You have to run the program as Administrator and then it works .
I found a post here at OSE about it.

the data record says I am pulling 255 amps at 100% throttle
lipos are dropping down to 19.6 during 100% throttle
temps are 150f max
rpm is 30k+ at 100% throttle

it seems the amp draw is too high...what do you guys think

A little smaller dia. prop, or less pitch. will lower your AMP draw.
It will also allow your voltage under load to be a bit higher.
a higher Voltage under load = higher RPM = Higher top speed.

Larry

[Crash]

Thank you for that truck pull the proper I'm running is the stock size for this boat I'm curious why with this new setup it's running slower on that prop and hotter only difference is a motor 1650 KV is what I had and now this one is a 1750 KV and a bigger esc

[CraigP]

I assume your running a 6s battery pack. So your trying to turn a big prop almost 39,000rpm. I shoot for 30-33krpm on all models. I have a hydro running 8s, 1250kv at 37Krpm. It’s a beast, and I must run a small prop. 1400kv is a good KV for 6s. I have much experience with T-180 and I find it very robust. Perhaps that 64% are running unbalanced systems. Also, I have found that TP motors use much more current than other motors. It is a very high performance motor and has low coil inductance. I have to increase the carrier frequency to 10Khz. It ran good there, but I didn’t like a low inductance at high voltage, so I changed it out to a Leopard motor.

But I think you’re turning too big a blade too fast, a recipe for electrical failure... Don’t let the smoke out!

[Crash]

thank you Craig, the prop is a 645 do you think its too much? I quit running the 652 it was a lot of fun but one pack got too hot for comfort

[CraigP]

I think that’s going to be your big prop. I would try a 643 too, and see which one gives you best temps and run times. Your are spinning very fast, so that pretty much boxes you out of bigger props. I’m at that point on my hydro. Like you, it’s hard not trying to run the bigger props I have. I got a 1050kv motor, but it’s a 4074, where the 1250kv is a 4082. Both run great, but the 4074 motor temps go up when running my ABC 1816-17-45 blade. I can’t find the exact KV/motor size I would like. That’s another frustration you’ll have to work the trade offs over. So I run the fast motor on days where the wind is down and the 4074 on windy days. Believe me, I feel exactly where you are. Try and follow the math to guide you.

[Crash]

I think that’s going to be your big prop. I would try a 643 too, and see which one gives you best temps and run times. Your are spinning very fast, so that pretty much boxes you out of bigger props. I’m at that point on my hydro. Like you, it’s hard not trying to run the bigger props I have. I got a 1050kv motor, but it’s a 4074, where the 1250kv is a 4082. Both run great, but the 4074 motor temps go up when running my ABC 1816-17-45 blade. I can’t find the exact KV/motor size I would like. That’s another frustration you’ll have to work the trade offs over. So I run the fast motor on days where the wind is down and the 4074 on windy days. Believe me, I feel exactly where you are. Try and follow the math to guide you.

Ugh.
I started at 52mph with stock set up.
Now with this setup same lipos, prop it is at 46 mph
I dont understand the Math.

[TRUCKPULL]

You say that you are running a ABC 1816-17-45
Then you say that you are running a 645 prop.
A Octura X or M 645 does not compare to the ABC props.

You keep mentioning the stock prop for the boat.
What prop is that and with what motor, size and KV.


What is exactly your setup right now.

HULL - type and length.
Motor - size. KV, Y or D wind?
ESC- type and size - is it programed to match the motor?
6S- 8S ??? - one or two p , make ,C rating , max C rating. mAP rating.

Prop - make, size, modifications,?????


Larry

[CraigP]

Yes, that info would be helpful.

Larry, I think the 1816 prop was in my post.

[CraigP]

I ran your numbers, 1750kv, 6s and 645 prop thru the calculator and it’s showing 70mph. A 643 is 66-67mph. So it’s in the ball park. But your speed goals leave no margin for error, so I’ll have to let you go for the gold ring without me. How a mono rides in the water will make a huge power difference. I hope you get there!

[Crash]

I ran your numbers, 1750kv, 6s and 645 prop thru the calculator and it’s showing 70mph. A 643 is 66-67mph. So it’s in the ball park. But your speed goals leave no margin for error, so I’ll have to let you go for the gold ring without me. How a mono rides in the water will make a huge power difference. I hope you get there!

why do you think my speed dropped with the new motor. this boat is a proboat RTR it came with a dynamite 1650kv I am guessing 3 hp the new motor I put in is as you know a TP power 8hp 1750kv
I would think using jthe same propeller the TP would be faster not slower... The data logger says the motor is spinning as fast as the old motor spun. the prop is spinning fast but boat is not moving fast...

[CraigP]

Take a video of it running is required. Also, take some pics of your esc/motor installation. You probably have combo problems. The stock wiring and connectors will drop more voltage with that TP motor in there. I also suspect something isn’t right in the ride characteristics. This is a Y motor? Are you running about 12-14 degrees of advance on the timing?

[Crash]

Ty.
I will get video and pics.
I am running the ESC on auto timing advance. It seems to run cooler .

[Crash]

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[Speed3]

That looks like the voracity, They is a wealth of info on the voracity turning thread about it. I would recommend going to the voracity turning thread in the rtr section on this forum.

I have learned that you need a good battery to get the tp to perform to its potential. Also the soldering has to be good at all points. Solder flowing through the wire like water before letting dry.

And if you are reving 30krpm plus and only doing 46mph I can tell the prop is not operating efficient enough to get the speed you want at 30krpm.

[CraigP]

The installation looks good enough. Just two things, the prop must be razor sharp, sharpened from the backside, not the thrust side. If you have removed material from the thrust face, then they will cavitation badly. Been there, done that. Also, I couldn’t make the TP motor work well at all on voltage higher than 4s. If you have another motor to try, do that.

[TRUCKPULL]

What wind is your motor "Y" or a "D"
Is the speed control programed to match the motor?

Larry

[Crash]

What wind is your motor "Y" or a "D"
Is the speed control programed to match the motor?

Larry

its a Y

[Crash]

That looks like the voracity, They is a wealth of info on the voracity turning thread about it. I would recommend going to the voracity turning thread in the rtr section on this forum.

I have learned that you need a good battery to get the tp to perform to its potential. Also the soldering has to be good at all points. Solder flowing through the wire like water before letting dry.

And if you are reving 30krpm plus and only doing 46mph I can tell the prop is not operating efficient enough to get the speed you want at 30krpm.

the only weak link I sense is at the motor leads. they are a coarse heavy wire and didn't solder as nice as any wire I have done in the past. also , the hot spot in set up are those wires. 189F

[Crash]

The installation looks good enough. Just two things, the prop must be razor sharp, sharpened from the backside, not the thrust side. If you have removed material from the thrust face, then they will cavitation badly. Been there, done that. Also, I couldn’t make the TP motor work well at all on voltage higher than 4s. If you have another motor to try, do that.

I don't do my own props , I get them sharp n balanced or cnc milled.

I have a 1650 kv I took out of this boat to run. I am curiuos if I can get more speed from a lower KV motor on same props

[TRUCKPULL]

its a Y

what is your timing set at??

What is exactly your setup right now.

HULL - type, material, and length.
Motor - size. KV, Y or D wind?
ESC- type and size - is it programed to match the motor?
6S- 8S ??? - one or two p , make ,C rating , max C rating. mAP rating.

Prop - make, size, modifications,?????


Each one the above questions will make a difference for a balanced system.


Larry

[Crash]

what is your timing set at??

What is exactly your setup right now.

HULL - type, material, and length.
Motor - size. KV, Y or D wind?
ESC- type and size - is it programed to match the motor?
6S- 8S ??? - one or two p , make ,C rating , max C rating. mAP rating.

Prop - make, size, modifications,?????


Each one the above questions will make a difference for a balanced system.


Larry

Its. 36 inch FG MONO PROBOAT
220 AMP ESC SWORDFISH set to 6s
To power 4060 3y 1750kv
Two 3s lipo 50c 6000mah
Stainless propeller 545 sharp n balanced

[CraigP]

I don't do my own props , I get them sharp n balanced or cnc milled.

I have a 1650 kv I took out of this boat to run. I am curiuos if I can get more speed from a lower KV motor on same props

Try that 1650 motor. I bet that TP is pulling down your electrical system. Broke my heart to have to pull my TP out, but I couldn’t even get thru turn 1 without it hitting thermal limit. Changed motor, all was golden! And now my beautiful TP motor sits in a box...

[Speed3]

Your tp motor leads got that to 189f because the soldering was purely done. It should be cool with that setup.

You are losing alot of power because of it.

I use lead tin solder with flux and solder over fire for my motor connectors. When I solder even d wind motors run cool at 15 degree timing. I don't run circuit though so I expect some running circuit to run hot. But my connectors does feel the same after I come in as before I went out.

When your connectors are cool that's a sign you are getting full power. Also I think your batteries are falling off too hard. Or maybe the cells are not that good in the first place.

I does measure the internal resistance of my batteries. That is check for voltage loss at a known load ampage. The best pack I have is a smc 5400 90c 4s.

It measures .005 ohms total for a 4s. That translate to 1.25 voltage drop at 250 amps. For 6s in those cells the internal resistance would be .0075 total or 1.875 voltage drop at 250 amps.

So if you start off at let's say 25volts for the 6s the voltage would drop to 23.125v initially at 250 amps. And you posted that your volts was 19.6v that's a big difference.

And if you get it setup right the speed gain will have you amazed. That tp will unleash so power I wonder if the drive will take it.

I have a tp 4060 1950kv I tried it on 5s one time I couldn't get a good run with my revolt. I was using an ose upgraded shaft for the revolt and an octura collet coupler. Well the power was so insane, no matter how tight I tighten the couple when I squeeze the shaft would slip. Too much power. Well it kill the shaft that same day an upgraded shaft.

My I have the same problem with the leopard 4092 but the tp 4060 is a little more powerful than the leopard 4092 but you will never know about this kind of power without proper batteries and a proper solder connection across all points.

One more thing the solder should flow through all the end of the wire like how flux can flow through it should look like silver water through the wire. Before you let it dry.

[Crash]

Your tp motor leads got that to 189f because the soldering was purely done. It should be cool with that setup.

You are losing alot of power because of it.

I use lead tin solder with flux and solder over fire for my motor connectors. When I solder even d wind motors run cool at 15 degree timing. I don't run circuit though so I expect some running circuit to run hot. But my connectors does feel the same after I come in as before I went out.

When your connectors are cool that's a sign you are getting full power. Also I think your batteries are falling off too hard. Or maybe the cells are not that good in the first place.

I does measure the internal resistance of my batteries. That is check for voltage loss at a known load ampage. The best pack I have is a smc 5400 90c 4s.

It measures .005 ohms total for a 4s. That translate to 1.25 voltage drop at 250 amps. For 6s in those cells the internal resistance would be .0075 total or 1.875 voltage drop at 250 amps.

So if you start off at let's say 25volts for the 6s the voltage would drop to 23.125v initially at 250 amps. And you posted that your volts was 19.6v that's a big difference.

And if you get it setup right the speed gain will have you amazed. That tp will unleash so power I wonder if the drive will take it.

I have a tp 4060 1950kv I tried it on 5s one time I couldn't get a good run with my revolt. I was using an ose upgraded shaft for the revolt and an octura collet coupler. Well the power was so insane, no matter how tight I tighten the couple when I squeeze the shaft would slip. Too much power. Well it kill the shaft that same day an upgraded shaft.

My I have the same problem with the leopard 4092 but the tp 4060 is a little more powerful than the leopard 4092 but you will never know about this kind of power without proper batteries and a proper solder connection across all points.

One more thing the solder should flow through all the end of the wire like how flux can flow through it should look like silver water through the wire. Before you let it dry.

Thank you.
I ran it yesterday for 3 sets. Of packs, o. The last run 2 of The three motor wires came unsoldered.
Back to the work bench.
I really thought I had this soldering game figured out.

[CraigP]

You need a 60W iron with at least a 1/4” chisel solder bit to get enough heat to fully penetrate all wire strands. Soldering flux is also very helpful, get it at Lowe’s or similar.

But this is still a sign that you are flowing a massive amount of current. I’ll say it again, that TP motor is probably going into saturation.

[StevenBryant]

Time to upgrade your connectors, I use Lehner 6mm 400amp connectors and castle 8mm 300amp connectors on most of my setups, I used to have the same problem as you until I upgraded


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[Crash]

I’ll say it again, that TP motor is probably going into saturation.

whats that mean?

[Crash]

so, I went back and resoldered all the conections.
the motor wires are still getting hot 198 F today

[StevenBryant]

so, I went back and resoldered all the conections.
the motor wires are still getting hot 198 F today

What connnectors are you using?


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