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Thread: Dual Engine DF Vortex34 Build

  1. #1
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    Default Dual Engine DF Vortex34 Build

    Hi All,

    Finally getting around to a build I’ve wanted to do for many years, a dual engine hydro! I got the stuff from Steve today and here’s a pic where it all begins. This has the majority of the hardware in the boat. Struts and rudder are in the back. Motors where I plan on putting them. I got one T-120 in there and some weight to emulate the second ESC. The batts are where they will go, same place as my first Vortex. Can’t wait to hear this baby out on the pond, screaming thru the corners!

    These are Leopard 3650 2050kv motors running on 4S and powered by twin Turnigy 120A ESC’s. That’s the same ESC as in my UL-1, you can just see it on the floor. That boat needs a rudder I’m waiting on...

    Here’s a pic of the new boat layout. With parts shown as is, CG is 1.23” behind back of sponsons..
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  2. #2

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    Oooh!!! Twin hydro

  3. #3

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    Don't see many twin hydros. Looking forward to seeing it done!
    HPR C5009 Mystic twin, Genesis 37, Zelos 36 twin, Voracity 36, Miss Geico 29 V3, King of Shaves P1, Mini Zonda 27, Miss Budweiser 1/12, Delta Force 26, Offshore Infinity, Stealthwake, Vac-U-Tug Jr

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    Cool.
    It's probably something most of us have contemplated from time to time. I know I have.
    Looking forward to watching this one develop.

  5. #5

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    With all that sponson work you did on your other one, why do the same hull? Interior space? Just asking...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Navherc130 View Post
    With all that sponson work you did on your other one, why do the same hull? Interior space? Just asking...
    Yes, so much space in this hull! And I got big hands. I did measure the sponson AOA on the granite table today and found them to be a whopping 3.78 degrees. That's way past my comfort point... I have a much easier way I'm going to use to bring that to 2.75 degrees, which is my preferred value. I'll be posting when I get to that stage.

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    DAY 1:

    There's a start to any project when the rubber meets the road, and that's the first hole! I always like to get a pic of that... The rudder is going to be placed on the true center of the hull, as indicated by the black line.

    This first hole is important because it is nearly impossible to keep a drill free-hand from torque wandering to the right. So I get this first hole in, then using a round file, it whollar out this hole to put the bracket exactly on target then tighten up that bolt. I then use the bracket as a drill fixture to put the other 3 holes exactly where they need to be. The rudder bracket will cover the whollared hole, and it gets silicone on during final assembly...
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    After that, I figured out where I want my struts and motors to be. I chose them to be 3.5" apart from each other, spaced evenly from center. I have an AutoCAD drawing on this to figure out and see it more clearly, before cutting! This is the fun part, making drawings and making chips!
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    Next, I installed the port side Strut. I'm using the large rudder assembly, because I like the big king pin that is used. More bearing area, so it stays much tighter. I am using the small, 3/16" Speedmaster Strut Assemblies. Since half the power is being delivered on each strut, it made sense to save some weight here. I've also decided to use a 0.150" flex with a liner. This requires the lowest amount of power to spin, and this boat has small motors. The biggest props this boat will probably see will be 45mm, so the 0.150" flex shaft should hold up to that just fine. These are OSE flex shafts, I have had great luck with them.

    You can see my whollared out first hole in the first pic...
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    Next, the Starboard side Strut, same game plan, just try not to make any mistakes and keep the distance apart and vertical placement on the transom as close as I can. I got them to about 0.005", close enough...

    I then use my granite surface to check everything out. It came out good, I was pleased!
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    Next, I needed to get the large grommet pass thru, usually used on the radio box. The grommet is big, and I had to modify the rudder bracket by increasing the radius cutout on the port side. I did this with a Dremel tool. I wanted it to nest up in that side cutout on the rudder bracket nicely. I didn't have a lot of space, but my CAD drawing kept me on the right direction.
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    End of Day 1: Lots go goodies going thru the Transom!
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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigP View Post
    DAY 1:

    There's a start to any project when the rubber meets the road, and that's the first hole! I always like to get a pic of that... The rudder is going to be placed on the true center of the hull, as indicated by the black line.

    This first hole is important because it is nearly impossible to keep a drill free-hand from torque wandering to the right. So I get this first hole in, then using a round file, it whollar out this hole to put the bracket exactly on target then tighten up that bolt. I then use the bracket as a drill fixture to put the other 3 holes exactly where they need to be. The rudder bracket will cover the whollared hole, and it gets silicone on during final assembly...
    It's all looking great Craig.

    But in reference to drilling holes, in fiberglass, ply, plastic etc, find yourself a set of 'Brad Point Drill Bits'. They don't wander, & they cut clean edges without chipping. I realise that it is a bit late for this project, but will be useful for future projects.
    Here's a link to show what they look like. They should be available at any number of sites or hardware stores, over there in the States.

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Frost-by...4383.l4275.c10

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    I like those Paul! I’ll look about for a set, thanks for the tip!

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    Quote Originally Posted by CraigP View Post
    I like those Paul! I’ll look about for a set, thanks for the tip!
    Clever, I see what you did there...
    HPR C5009 Mystic twin, Genesis 37, Zelos 36 twin, Voracity 36, Miss Geico 29 V3, King of Shaves P1, Mini Zonda 27, Miss Budweiser 1/12, Delta Force 26, Offshore Infinity, Stealthwake, Vac-U-Tug Jr

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    Quote Originally Posted by fweasel View Post
    Clever, I see what you did there...
    "Look good doin' it"
    See the fleet

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    DAY 2:

    I concentrated on getting the stuffing tubes, flex shafts and checking motor placement. This begins with that first cut in the boat to pass the stuffing tube through. For this, I rely on the CAD drawing heavily. It told me I needed to be 8.8" from the back of the boat, on the marked centerline, to put the hole in the center of the cutout. I then use a Dremel with a routing bit to complete the hole. I don't thin out the edges, like when you lay the drill over on it's side to whallor it out. I used to do that, but it can create stress fractures in the thin fiberglass at the ends of the cut out. So now I just use the router, keeping it square and overshoot the hole slightly to get a good epoxy fill in there.
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    Last edited by CraigP; 03-14-2018 at 10:45 PM.

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    After getting my feet wet on the first cut, I bent the 1/4" copper tubing using a tube bender along 1/2" points on the 18" radius. I also had a printout from the CAD drawing showing a side profile of the required finish bend, so it made it pretty easy, just matching to the picture. The print out is a precise 1:1 scale...
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    With the trail blazed on the port side, just need to duplicate the starboard side. Sometimes easier said than done, but I was on a roll today and managed it pretty good! I'm enjoying this build very much, just taking it all in... I have the epoxy in on the top side and will set the epoxy tomorrow morning on the bottom. I think it's just about halfway thru the build now, excluding paint...
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  20. #20

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    You are having a good go at this Craig. It’s looking good. Hey saw somewhere that those flat bottom struts had been radiused on the one side to prevent digging/tripping. Just mentioning as a thought.

  21. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by 785boats View Post
    Cool.
    It's probably something most of us have contemplated from time to time. I know I have.
    Looking forward to watching this one develop.
    me included!
    really looking forward to the running video of this one!
    Jesus is King .......NAMBA20...Caterpillar UL-1, P-Spec OM29, P-Mono DF33, P-Spec JAE, Aussie 33" Hydro-LSH, Sprintcat CC2028 on 8s, PT SS45 Q Hydro, PS295 UL-1 power, OSE Brothers Outlaw QMono 4-sale, Rio 51z CC2028 on 8s

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    Quote Originally Posted by srislash View Post
    You are having a good go at this Craig. It’s looking good. Hey saw somewhere that those flat bottom struts had been radiused on the one side to prevent digging/tripping. Just mentioning as a thought.
    Ive always used the rounded bottom struts in the past, but I read from time to time how some people say the flat bottom can help hold the transom up, especially in turns. I thought I would buy flats, try it, and if they don’t work, then I’ll radius the bottoms. I was also going to try radius on the starboard side, leave flat on port side. My thinking was to create better hold up on the port or outside strut while turning right... But you gotta have the flat to start to try it out... It’s funny, because they look like two water skis in some of those picks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brushless55 View Post
    me included!
    really looking forward to the running video of this one!
    I keep seeing this thing run in my mind as I’m working on it! So many things to see and try, it’s going to be fun and educational at the same time...

  24. #24

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    looking pretty slick man

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    I’m a bit hung up waiting on some misc. stuff coming in. I was going to run this boat on the stock ride pads, but looking at it again, I talked myself into reducing the very large AoA on the sponsons. The last time I did this, I made much more work out of it than it should have been. I made laminated frames, 4 on each side, that I then screwed to aluminum down onto. Those frames were very difficult to final finish to size... So this time, I found some 1/8” basswood planks. I’m just glueing those down onto the sponson and I will just set them by sanding them down with my power wall sander. I’m going to put two on each side, bring it up by 1/4”. To get to my target numbers, I’ll have to leave the quarter inch on the section by the nose, and taper sand down to almost nothing on the ends of the sponsons. There is also 6 degrees of slope on these surfaces. I prefer squared up surfaces such that when placed on the granite, the complete back of the sponsons are resting on the surface. So I won’t be adding to the depth of the sponsons like I did on the first Vortex. I don’t think I needed to make that much work. Still, there is a lot of work re-configuring ride pads, but oh, so worth it out on the water. Note: the first Vortex has never flipped or rolled in the corners. I’m hoping for a similar outcome on this dual.
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  26. #26

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    Is that thumb screws threaded thru the hull to hold the wood down? Good plan!!

    I remember doing a ride pad mod to a Dumas rigger way back before I messed with good quality epoxy. What a wipeout when the glue let go at speed. LOL

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    Quote Originally Posted by srislash View Post
    Is that thumb screws threaded thru the hull to hold the wood down? Good plan!!

    I remember doing a ride pad mod to a Dumas rigger way back before I messed with good quality epoxy. What a wipeout when the glue let go at speed. LOL
    Yes Shawn, I'm using the thumb screw as a clamp. I have the self-setting nuts turned around backwards so the barbs don't set. The aluminum and the final epoxy will seal these holes off. Tonight I'll set the last ply on top and tomorrow start the sanding.

  28. #28
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    TURN FIN

    I found on my last boat that the single angle turn fin used on the bigger 1/8 scale boats worked better than the curved fin. The curved fin tacked the sponson down too tight. I' not a fan of using the rudder, strut and turn fin to adjust ride characteristics. I'll do it if all else fails, but I think those adjustments come with penalties and are a compensation to a problem elsewhere. I do like to adjust the fin up and down for different degrees of water roughness. I also think the included angle is nice to be able to dial in. So I took a stock 1/8 scale turn fin assembly and started to modify it. First, I put a curved adjustment slot into the upper mounting hole of the bracket. This allows me the opportunity to set the angle, I have pics on that. Next, I drilled a sequence of holes that allow me to move the fin up an down by 0.20" on each hole position. Generally it is set right in the middle. I drop it a set of holes in real rough water and raise it when running in smooth water. There's a pic showing the stock fin assembly with a black line on it. That's what I'm going to cut off to scale it to my model size...
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    So I got the turn fin cut down using a cutoff wheel in the Dremel, takes some patience! I have some pics showing the turn fin assembly on the boat. I still need to grind the leading edge face up higher, the transition is too low for my boat. I also show the adjustment range of the turn fin's included angle. I've found that my smaller boat doesn't need as much lean as the 1/8" Scale. If you look at the pic of the Min Angle closely, you can just make out the line scribe in the fiberglass put in at the factory on where to set the fin. I'm a bit outside of that, because I'm deepening the sponsons slightly.. Overall, this is going much easier than the first build, image that!
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    All the wood prep is complete for the ride pad modifications. I have 0.031” aluminum plate coming to put the final covers on. The port side sponson now has a ride pad AoA of 2.25 degrees and the starboard side is set it 2.75 degrees. The front shingle is a bit deeper on the port, due to the angle difference. This was so much easier than what I did the first time! You just can’t beat a bit of experience! Looking forward to getting the metal on...
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