motor leads

[T.S.Davis]

Anybody try this? I have a box of turd motors. I'll have to give it a go.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3n6P4hejWE

[fweasel]

Seems super simple, but where's the challenge? No caustic chemicals, no care! Interesting, I'm allergic to Aspirin, so what could possibly go wrong with freebasing it!

[photohoward1]

For real?

[T.S.Davis]

I know. I'm super hesitant to believe it.

No animal sacrifice? No explosives? No burning embers of death? Might as well dead short a 10s pack to keep it interesting.

[dethow]

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing Terry.

Have to say I'm still scared to cut my wires and find out this doesn't work. I assume you'll give it a go and share a full report of the results... right Terry?

[T.S.Davis]

That's the plan. I really want to know if it works. I've broken leads off. Frustrating to not know for sure how to make it right.

[TRUCKPULL]

I remember reading about this about a month ago on IW.
They said it works.
The video shows it being with small wires, hope it works with the larger one that we use.

Larry

[Doug Smock]

Don said it works but doesn't do as good a job that the lye concoction does.

[Old School]

Is the removal of the enameling only applicable to motor leads that have been shortened from stock or also applies to factory length leads? There was a recent thread regarding TP Power motors and the difficulty soldering connections. "785boats" (Paul) made mention of the use of aspirin tablets in that thread.

[boatsrnew2me]

this takes the headache out of removing that enamel

[ray schrauwen]

Aspirin is just another form of Acid that can work. I prefer Lye, an Iron cap and a torch.

As the man says, "don't breath in the fumes", they are toxic. Both methods...

I heat until the bubbling stops and it's a molten gray color.

[Old School]

Sodium hydroxide is "caustic soda", a very strong alkali solution we commonly use to clear blocked drains and can also be used to strip paint. As it has the potential to cause caustic burns then obviously great care must be taken.

Lye is a generic American term. Out here in the land of OZ we call it by its common trademark name "Drano". Personally, if the aspirin works then for safety reasons I would prefer that method to the very caustic lye.

Edit: also available as caustic soda crystals.

[srislash]

Sodium hydroxide is "caustic soda", a very strong alkali solution we commonly use to clear blocked drains and can also be used to strip paint. As it has the potential to cause caustic burns then obviously great care must be taken.

Lye is a generic American term. Out here in the land of OZ we call it by its common trademark name "Drano". Personally, if the aspirin works then for safety reasons I would prefer that method to the very caustic lye.

We’ll common Drano is easy to find. I shall try to remember that one

[fweasel]

Drano is not the same formula it used to be. Not sure if the original is even still available under that name.

[Old School]

It seems that Drano is more than just "lye". from a search -

Drano is lye-based drainage cleaner product sold in several forms, consisting in variations of sodium hydroxide (lye), sodium hypochlorate (bleach), sodium nitrate, sodium chloride (salt) and aluminum.

When I used sodium hyroxide (lye) as a paint stripper I simply purchased caustic soda crystals, perhaps a better choice.

[T.S.Davis]

Good ole' Lowes.

https://www.lowes.com/pd/Roebic-Labo...ystals/4751600

[ray schrauwen]

As you apply heat the crystals start to melt and bubble and froth. After some time the mixture will settle down to molten gray.

Safety gear + Chaps, rubber and full coverage!

[T.S.Davis]

I am relatively certain this is what Don told me to do but at the time he was dancing in the rain so I was too confident I heard right.

[Doug Smock]

That was funny! I've known Don a long time but had NEVER seen him like that!

[TRUCKPULL]

Now what Salt to use?
Table Salt?
Rock Salt?
Sea Salt?
Coarse Salt?
Fine Salt?


Larry

[ray schrauwen]

Normal Iodized table salt. It's bad for ya so it's got to work good for this, lol...

[donhuff]

Well I thought that I had answered you earlier. I guess I must have forgotten to hit SEND!

Dancing??? Anyway Like has been said, 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 Lye to table salt. Or just straight Lye will do it. Apply heat until it melts, then keep the heat on for a while. Insert your wire bundle with the strands spread out well so the concoction can get all around each strand. Insert this SLOWLY, because it will start to boil as the insulation vaporizes and turns to gas. Some of this gas WILL ignite but the flame is usually very small and burns off quickly. If it does not boil immediately and vigorously, It aint hot enough and when you remove the wire it will be encased in re-hardened mixture. Just give it a few minutes to get even hotter and try it again. When hot enough it will melt off that lump and will get to the wire. I suggest for your first tries, to use some scrap wire until you get the hang of it. Keep the wire in there until the boiling subsides, this lets you know that all the insulation is gone.

Now with the bundle still hot, dunk it into clean water to cool and to rinse off the lye. IT IS VERY HOT still, and will make the water vaporize and will throw little bits of molten lye everywhere including on the lens of my glasses! This will leave a permanent mark on the lens! I have several. There will be a little bit of the mixture that lumps and hardens right at the top of where the stripping stops, where it wasn't submerged, but got bubbled up on the wire. I give it a squirt of 409 spray cleaner and break it up with a paper towel, then wipe off.

FYI lye melts at 604*F
Salt melts at 1474*F

and you need to get it a good bit past the melting point to work best, so, BE CAREFUL!

Now flux, twist into a tight bundle, and solder. Don't wait to long or the naked copper will start to oxidize. You might could neutralize with vinegar or something like that, not sure, but really is not needed just solder and be done with it.

[donhuff]

Terry,

I get it at the local hardware store for much less that that.

https://www.idealtruevalue.com/store...yABEgK6mvD_BwE

[dasboata]

Terry,

I get it at the local hardware store for much less that that.

https://www.idealtruevalue.com/store...yABEgK6mvD_BwE

How does that work Don ? I assume you have to spread all the wire out on the #8 and #10 stranded motor wires thanks Chris

[donhuff]

If ya get it hot enough, when you pull the wires out after say 15-20 seconds, there won't be a speck of insulation left on the wire, flux then solder, and they will take the solder like a sponge.

Not sure what you mean by #8 and #10. The motor leads do not follow the wire gage standards. The motor leads are the size they are because that is how many strands of wire that they can fit into the slots of the stator, depending on how the motor is wound, ie 2Delta ,4 WYE. The more "winds... 2-4 8" that you have, the more times the wire "bundle" has to go through the stator slots. That's why on a 1 WYE the leads will be very big,fat. But then a 10 delta like on the TP 1950, the leads are tiny, because the leads have to go through the stator slots 10 times to make the "coil" and the 1 WYE only makes 1 pass through that same slot, so the motor lead bundle is huge in comparison.

You don't have to really spread, the wires all that much, just don't have them bunched up together

[donhuff]

And I should have said it above but I didn't think about it at the time.

The size of the motors leads will be drastically different between WYE and Delta OF THE SAME WIND NUMBER because of the way the winds differ in how they start/end.

With the Y, all three lead bundles start out separated into each leg (of course). But when you get to the other end, they are all three brought together and soldered. This is the piece of heat shrink you see usually in the rear end of a motor mashed down on top of the stator windings. It can also be on the front side like in the AQ 1800. This is done to change the Kv and I think this motor has an extra pass of the bundle through the slots, and that worked out best for them to put it in the front. I've not seen that on any other brand, It's usually in the back.

But then with a Delta, the lead bundles are NOT soldered together, but instead are left long during the winding process. And then when your finished, the start of lets say bundle A will be mated with the start, or end, of say bundle C. There is a certain order to it "sorta", or you can just take each pair that happen to exit beside each other, and it works just as good.


SO, by all this you can see that the Y will have smaller leads......sometimes. And the D will have bigger leads, sometimes, because they are always doubled. For example let's say we have a 2 Y, and the leads are fairly big, but then the same 2 wind but with D termination, those leads will be doubled and will be huge compared to the Y.

Now let's take that same motor that's wound @ 2Y and has big leads, but we want a Delta dammit, and we want it to be about the same Kv number. Then you'll have to go with more "winds" to get that Kv down cause Deltas kv 1.73 times more, with the same wind number, than Ys kv . So it looks like we will have to go with a 4D and that will put us a little under our target kv, or a 3D, But that would put us quite a bit over. It'll never be the same but is usually close enough that it's not to much of a prop change to get there. But what I was getting at is that the leads on our 2Y may have 30 strands of wire, and the 4 D will also have 30 strands in the leads. But the D starts out with only 15 because it has to go through the slots twice as many times. But then the other end is brought back to another start lead, and the two are twisted together, and make the same size leads as the Y has. Confused? And I haven't gotten to the "half" winds yet.

Did anybody even ask this question, or am I just rambling on??? I'm sure some of you have often wondered why the leads are different sizes on the same motor but with differing Kvs.

[ray schrauwen]

Good tip Don about leaving it in there for a certain amount of time. When I did it, I did not leave it in that long so I had to clean the crud off the wires but water mostly took that off.

If I do it again I'll know better, thanks.

[zooma]

And I should have said it above but I didn't think about it at the time.

The size of the motors leads will be drastically different between WYE and Delta OF THE SAME WIND NUMBER because of the way the winds differ in how they start/end.

With the Y, all three lead bundles start out separated into each leg (of course). But when you get to the other end, they are all three brought together and soldered. This is the piece of heat shrink you see usually in the rear end of a motor mashed down on top of the stator windings. It can also be on the front side like in the AQ 1800. This is done to change the Kv and I think this motor has an extra pass of the bundle through the slots, and that worked out best for them to put it in the front. I've not seen that on any other brand, It's usually in the back.

But then with a Delta, the lead bundles are NOT soldered together, but instead are left long during the winding process. And then when your finished, the start of lets say bundle A will be mated with the start, or end, of say bundle C. There is a certain order to it "sorta", or you can just take each pair that happen to exit beside each other, and it works just as good.


SO, by all this you can see that the Y will have smaller leads......sometimes. And the D will have bigger leads, sometimes, because they are always doubled. For example let's say we have a 2 Y, and the leads are fairly big, but then the same 2 wind but with D termination, those leads will be doubled and will be huge compared to the Y.

Now let's take that same motor that's wound @ 2Y and has big leads, but we want a Delta dammit, and we want it to be about the same Kv number. Then you'll have to go with more "winds" to get that Kv down cause Deltas kv 1.73 times more, with the same wind number, than Ys kv . So it looks like we will have to go with a 4D and that will put us a little under our target kv, or a 3D, But that would put us quite a bit over. It'll never be the same but is usually close enough that it's not to much of a prop change to get there. But what I was getting at is that the leads on our 2Y may have 30 strands of wire, and the 4 D will also have 30 strands in the leads. But the D starts out with only 15 because it has to go through the slots twice as many times. But then the other end is brought back to another start lead, and the two are twisted together, and make the same size leads as the Y has. Confused? And I haven't gotten to the "half" winds yet.

Did anybody even ask this question, or am I just rambling on??? I'm sure some of you have often wondered why the leads are different sizes on the same motor but with differing Kvs.

OMG. Can you hold a seminar at the Atlanta NATS?

[donhuff]

Yeah Ray, leave them in there until the boiling complete stops, and there won't be ANY insulation left on the wires.


Zooma, really? ya know I'm actually a gas guy, that got shanghaied into this electrical stuff a couple of years ago.

But if you think I have something you'd be interested in, I'd be happy to help. I'm not much of a seminar kinda guy. But I'd be happy to bring some show and tell stuff, and answer any questions that you or anyone else wanted to ask.

I don't know a lot of the technical stuff, but I do (at least I think I do) have a pretty good understanding of what's going on inside these motors.

[ray schrauwen]

I like how Scorpion stuffed 1.2mm wire into their motors and they are all 1Y winds.