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Thread: Differences between high end ESC's and cheap ones for Lehner motors?

  1. #61
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    I use 10 - Ohm. 2-Watt for a 6S anti-spark

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
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  2. #62
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    ah ok, darn it. didn't think high ohm count mattered to the esc. I couldn't seem to find any in the 1-20 ohm range on ebay at all.

    well, good thing i checked first before trying it :-X

  3. #63
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    Is the BEC in the castle worth using at all for the receiver? I was thinking to just use a LiFe instead, as I would imagine it would cause it to create more heat like all other ESC's.

  4. #64
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    I have found that the radio board that has the BEC in it, runs about 20 degrees cooler when the BEC is disconnected.
    I use these instead of a battery pack in all my boats to power the receiver.
    https://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pr...rod=ker-HWUBEC

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  5. #65
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    If you are using a relatively small servo that is not needing to work hard you can stick with the onboard BEC. However, I do recommend using an external receiver pack for anything with a 150oz+ servo. The BEC does have to work hard and this is a common failure seen on the control boards.
    Tyler Garrard
    NAMBA 639/IMPBA 20525
    T-Hydro @ 142.94mph former WR

  6. #66
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    Tyler, is it possible to have flex cable that is a bit way too flexible?

    This black cable (got it from keith - but it appears to be Octura cable like from OSE) rattles way too much even when I apply a bit of load on the shaft.
    The other gold cable runs fine, even when running on the other side...
    I haven't put it on the water yet... didn't want this flex blowing up.

    Perhaps the cable is too long for the amount of support I have in there?

    The teflon tube I'm using has an ID of 5.5mm, decided to use it instead of the other thicker 5mm ID teflon I have... figured it'd run better with teflon that isn't too tight.

    Should I use a different cable or will it be fine with some real load?

    IMG_2808.jpg IMG_2807.jpg IMG_2806.jpg IMG_2805.jpg
    Last edited by dmitry100; 04-18-2018 at 12:37 PM.

  7. #67
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    I have some flex cables that also whip on the bench without load, but work fine in boats when load is applied. I am surprised you have that much whip with such short shafts. Looks like you have enough support and no big gap between the stuffing tube and collet. You are correct that the Teflon liner does need some clearance, but there is such a thing as too much clearance.

    If I had the option of running one cable that whips on the bench versus one that does not, I would go with the latter. I would normally say try both cables, but it looks like you built this boat for SAW runs and if running high RPM cable whip will destroy the drive line and potentially the motors.

    -Tyler
    Tyler Garrard
    NAMBA 639/IMPBA 20525
    T-Hydro @ 142.94mph former WR

  8. #68
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    ID of 5.5mm for teflon with 3/16 flex is usually OK for SAW though right
    Last edited by dmitry100; 04-18-2018 at 05:42 PM.

  9. #69
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    Do LMT motors not like a decent 5mm+ gap between the drives and drive dog?

    There was something I read about how it is a big no no with LMT in particular... Is that true? Or did I misread that

    Something about it ruining the bearings or motor shafts

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by dmitry100 View Post
    Do LMT motors not like a decent 5mm+ gap between the drives and drive dog?

    There was something I read about how it is a big no no with LMT in particular... Is that true? Or did I misread that

    Something about it ruining the bearings or motor shafts
    I’ve never read that but it makes sense because every Lehner motor I’ve used it put in a customers boat with a single has had the shaft slip in it. I guess they need a thrust bearing? I dunno? I don’t spend that kind of money on failing equipment anymore.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by kfxguy View Post
    I’ve never read that but it makes sense because every Lehner motor I’ve used it put in a customers boat with a single has had the shaft slip in it. I guess they need a thrust bearing? I dunno? I don’t spend that kind of money on failing equipment anymore.
    I run thrust bearings on all my Lehner motors to stop the shaft slippage, not that I have ever suffered from it.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  12. #72
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    Ok, how is one to keep a thrust bearing alive at 45,000 rpm? any I have run over 30k have been smokin’ after a run. Can’t keep oil or grease on them.

  13. #73
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    I use Air Tool Oil on mine.

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
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  14. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUCKPULL View Post
    I use Air Tool Oil on mine.

    Larry
    This holds up Larry? I’m just about to mainden AWB and could install some thrust bearings I guess. Anybody know where to get 8mm ID ones?

  15. #75
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    Any thrust bearing I've seen so far has a maximum RPM rating of 20k

    It would be a strange thing to need seeing how expensive these LMT motors are... Never thought it to be such a common issue.

    I'll post in a German forum about this and see what they are doing about this... so far I have never seen thrust bearings on any boats running LMT so far

  16. #76
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    Well I’ll insert my opinion. Maybe the Lehner motors aren’t really a sport motor. I think they are really made for all out speed. Maybe not, but in any application I’ve used them in with regular running they just haven’t lasted. And these motors I refer to weren’t just in my hands, one guy isn’t a speed junkie and he just ran his boat for fun. The shaft moved in it. Personally I don’t like thrust bearings or washers in my boats because that’s another part to fail or wear out. When I build something and put my name on it, I prefer to have no problems so I try to do what I know works. So far I’ve had the absolute best luck with cheap tp motors and neu motors. Neu used to have shorting problems in the leads coming out the motor but they fixed that by putting beer insulating sleeves where the leads exit the end bell. I feel like I can accomplish any goal I have with either of those motors and not have to spend $400 on a motor. Same thing goes for escs. While the mgm look purty and they drive quite nice, I don’t require them in any of my builds unless my customer requests it. My go to escs for now are the sf300 and sf220 until something else better comes along. I really like the new X series. Hopefully castle comes through with something soon.


    Whoops I went a little off subject. Sorry. My answer to the original question is I’ve used castle, seaking 180 and swordfish and mgm on Lehner motors. They all worked fine.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  17. #77
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    Well Travis, I will agree on the LMT and sport application to an extent. They seem to be fine in normal ‘sport’ situations (30k’ish) but in hot setups they are just too compact and dense to dissipate the heat internally so it just builds till failure. Seen it thru you a couple times and on Steve’s big mono.

  18. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by srislash View Post
    Well Travis, I will agree on the LMT and sport application to an extent. They seem to be fine in normal ‘sport’ situations (30k’ish) but in hot setups they are just too compact and dense to dissipate the heat internally so it just builds till failure. Seen it thru you a couple times and on Steve’s big mono.
    Yea that may be the case. One of them that failed I took it apart and inspected it. The glue on the windings melted off. Another one I had the shaft came out of it. I think I still have it. I could probably use some sleeve retainer on it but I don’t really care to use it on anything. It’s a cool looking paperweight tho. Lol.

    I but they last a lot longer in a twin because the stress will be less on them, both the heat and the pushing forces on the shaft will be less.
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  19. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by srislash View Post
    This holds up Larry? I’m just about to mainden AWB and could install some thrust bearings I guess. Anybody know where to get 8mm ID ones?
    I have never had a thrust bearing fail, I have never had a shaft shift in a motor, I run a thrust bearing in every boat I own or have built.
    I have seen a shaft shift in a brand new NEU motor first run- NO thrust bearing.

    The bearings in any motor are NOT designed for the amount of lateral thrust that we put on them in boats, that is why you should run a thrust bearing between the coupler and the motor in all boats.
    Air tool oil, - I use a small needle syringe to oil my bearings, I do this almost every run.

    8mm thrust bearings at OSE
    https://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pr...rod=boc-f8-16g

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  20. #80
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    How do you go about getting a thrust bearing to work on the TP shaft that is turned down?

  21. #81
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    Quote Originally Posted by TRUCKPULL View Post
    I have never had a thrust bearing fail, I have never had a shaft shift in a motor, I run a thrust bearing in every boat I own or have built.
    I have seen a shaft shift in a brand new NEU motor first run- NO thrust bearing.

    The bearings in any motor are NOT designed for the amount of lateral thrust that we put on them in boats, that is why you should run a thrust bearing between the coupler and the motor in all boats.
    Air tool oil, - I use a small needle syringe to oil my bearings, I do this almost every run.

    8mm thrust bearings at OSE
    https://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pr...rod=boc-f8-16g

    Larry
    Thanks Larry

  22. #82
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    JIMMY
    If you are asking about the 8mm motor shaft that is turned down to 5mm

    I use the same motor TP4050, My motor mount is 1/8" thick aluminum, at this thickness only the 5mm shaft sticks out.
    The hole in it for the motor shaft is 21/64" ( just enough side clearance so the 8mm stub that sticks out of the motor does NOT rub.

    Now your 5mm thrust bearing mounts between the coupler and the face of the motor mount.

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  23. #83
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    Gotcha. My situation is different with the motor mounted it will slide through the mount. I'm going to have to figure something out or just keep using without one. All my other boats have one

  24. #84
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    Jimmy

    In that case, I have seen people use a 1/16" to 1/8" thick aluminum plate, 1/2" by about 1 1/4" long
    With a center hole just to clear the shaft, and two 3MM holes to line up with the motor mount holes.
    It then mounts on the front of the motor mount attached with the motor mount screws, (adjust screw length to suit).
    The thrust bearing then goes between that plate and the coupler.

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  25. #85
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    Sounds like a plan thanks man

  26. #86
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    Will a thrust bearing hold up at 60k rpm loaded though?

    I wonder if a thick teflon washer would hold up if used instead of a thrust bearing or just minimize the space between drive dog and drive to 2-3mm given that theres already a teflon washer there as well. A 6 inch flex cable shouldn't tighten up all too much to cause any extra heat at the drive dog right ?
    Last edited by dmitry100; 04-22-2018 at 01:42 PM.

  27. #87
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    The Thrust bearings that we are talking about go between the motor and the coupler.
    https://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pr...?prod=dh-53136

    They are rated about the same RPM as any motor bearing. But they are designed for THRUST where the motor bearings are not.

    NEVER ever use them between the Strut and the drive dog.

    You can put a Teflon washer between the strut and the drive dog if you want to,
    But you still have to leave the proper space between these two, to compensate for shrinkage in the cable.
    The rule of thumb for cables is. the Dia. of the cable for every 10" to 12" of length.
    So if you have a 11" long 0.187" or 3/16" Dia. cable --- you leave a 3/16" space.

    For high power or High RPM unite -- I would leave a little more space then I stated above.
    The torque that these units put out is way higher then for Sport Or Racing Boats.


    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  28. #88
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    If my 3/16 flex cable is only about 6 inches ... would 3-4mm technically be sufficient space between drive dog and strut ?

    It is high rpm about 60k loaded ... but I'm running twins with 42mm props and LMT 1950/5's

  29. #89
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    "It is high rpm about 60k loaded"

    My speck on Dia. size for every foot of length, is for racing about 30k loaded.

    You are running twice the load, That does not mean twice the gap per foot.
    It is probably a multiple of that. Meaning more then twice.

    Larry
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  30. #90
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    But how much more can a 6 inch cable possibly tighten though past 5-6mm ?

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