Differences between high end ESC's and cheap ones for Lehner motors?

[srislash]

But how much more can a 6 inch cable possibly tighten though past 5-6mm ?

One could play with it. You would see the wear on that washer on the drive dog if it sees some pressure. I run 4-5mm gap on the Fantasm and also run 7” of cable. Mine has been good.
Of course there is always wire drive. No shrinkage there I believe

[TRUCKPULL]

You could also paint the rear of your strut with a black permanent marker and see if there is a rubbing from the drive dog.

Larry

[TRUCKPULL]

Gotcha. My situation is different with the motor mounted it will slide through the mount. I'm going to have to figure something out or just keep using without one. All my other boats have one

Jimmy
How large is your hole for the shaft in the mount?
If large enough or if you can make it large enough to clear a 8mm thrust bearing.

The 8mm thrust bearing would center itself on the shaft, and then the 5mm collet would be tight up against it.
https://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pr...rod=boc-f8-16g

Larry

[RaceMechaniX]

Do LMT motors not like a decent 5mm+ gap between the drives and drive dog?

There was something I read about how it is a big no no with LMT in particular... Is that true? Or did I misread that

Something about it ruining the bearings or motor shafts

You can run thrust forces on an LMT just like any other motor. There are a couple good reasons to reduce it or run a square drive.
1. LMT's using smaller bearings compared to Neu's and TP's and smaller bearings cannot handle high thrust forces.
2. LMT's use a very fine pitch thread to secure the output side end cap to the can. Particularly if the motor is not supported on the rear you run the risk of pressing hard enough to break the threads. It's actually a combo of the motor being cantilivered and the thrust forces that generally cause the threads to fail. Lesson here is to support the rear of the motor.
3. If you do run a thrust bearing with a LMT, you need to have the bearing push against the end plate not against the ball bearing. The flanged ball bearing is facing the wrong way for the thrust force so it will just push the bearing towards the wire end.

I do recommend using a rear motor support for all LMT motors, that should go for almost all larger motor beyond a spec size motor.
No big concern letting the motor take up the thrust forces, but know you will have to change your bearings more often.
I would stay away from the thrust bearing that directly transfers the forces the front ball bearing. Either make a plate that can take the forces or leave out the thrust bearing.

The gap at the drive dog is dependant on what cable you are running and how long it is. 3/16-1/4" gap works for most boats.

[dmitry100]

Tyler, shaft shifting ... is that a concern at all when not using thrust bearings on LMT's? like in kfxguy's case -- his LMT motor shaft shifted.

thrust bearings just sound like something that will blow up at high rpm -- everyone is recommending the ones on OSE but what RPM are they rated at? All the ones I've seen so far on google are 20k maximum.

[RaceMechaniX]

The 5mm Tamiya ones work fine up to 40k. Travis’ shaft slipping is due to the rotor getting really hot which breaks the bond between the shaft and magnets. This is pretty rare.

[dmitry100]

Tyler, if 1 castle edge ESC had 4 caps total in the front of the near the phase conductors and the another ESC only had 2 in the front. Could that possibly cause some throttle sync issues -- like causing one motor going faster than the other. Even after going through all of the throttle calibration this is the only thing different between the controllers. Can't think of anything else that may be causing this. Switched sides of the ESC's and its definitely the controllers, not an issue with the motors.

I guess I'll solder on the other 2 caps and see if it makes a differences. Figured since the 2 extra caps are near the phases and all... maybe it can make it behave differently?

[RaceMechaniX]

The caps should not make a difference like you suggested. I would check the software level, timing and start power. It's not uncommon for the ESC's to vary a little bit even with identical software. It's a known issue with guys running twin Castles. Usually in the water, it's not too noticeable once the boat gets going.

-Tyler

[dmitry100]

But they should not vary to the point of flipping over the boat due to the torque roll right?

Thats the kind of difference I am seeing... kind of frustrating. Why on earth would they be so different from each other.

When I pulled data logs from the run on water after the cat flipped - I noticed that the "Throttle In" had a max of 2.1ms for one and around 1.7ms for the other. The Max "Power Out" was 80% and 100% for the other. With around 20 amps in difference between the 2 (since I was testing it on 3s only).

[RaceMechaniX]

Then you are not calibrated correctly. Are you using fixed end points or auto adjustable ones?
I assume you are using a Y splitter for the lead connection and not trying to use a servo mixing function on an additional channel.
Try calibrating both ESC's simultaneously using a one battery to power up both ESC's.

[CraigP]

Some of the ESC’s have a programmable throttle response. Could that be the difference?

[TRUCKPULL]

Dmitry

Are you running a ?S2P setup?
With the two Red battery wires ( and the two Black wires) on the ESC"s connected together, giving you the 2P connection?

I had a diagram on here somewhere showing this wiring connection,
In my diagram it has a Plug in between the two ESC's in the Black wire.
I have found that with Castle 240 Hydra ESC's you have to program them individually.
This is why there is a plug in the Black wire between the two ESC's

Larry

[dmitry100]

I'm running both ESC's with their own battery packs connected separately.

Larry, what is the purpose of having a plug that connects the 2 black power wires of both ESC's?

Tyler, Both of the controllers are connected with a Y connector for the throttle port of the receiver. With both red wires from BEC pulled out. I have tried calibrating them with both Auto Calibration and Fixed EndPoints and still experience the same issue.
I'll try calibrating them both up with just 1 pack and see how it goes...

I think perhaps I'm not doing something right during calibration, maybe because of the pistix. Followed the instructions for setting up the Fixed Endpoints but maybe it's not taking effect.

Is there any particular way of doing fixed endpoint calibration with a pistol? from what I understand I have to power up both ESC's with both FWD/BRK Endpoints on my Futaba 4PLS transmitter set at 40% and the trigger in full throttle and then I would increase the FWD Endpoint until I hear a beep (at 84%) and release the trigger in neutral. From there on, increasing the BRK endpoint would not make any beep even at the full 120% -- pulling the trigger after this... the ESC would arm itself.

Castle sure could of made throttle calibration a bit little less complicated. Even my swordfish's worked without any issues like this.

[TRUCKPULL]

I'm running both ESC's with their own battery packs connected separately.

Larry, what is the purpose of having a plug that connects the 2 black power wires of both ESC's?

You say you have each battery running to it's own motor.
So you are NOT running your batteries in a 2P configuration.

I run my twin setup in a 6S2P configuration.
The batteries are 6S-5000mah, In a 6S2P configuration, each ESC sees the same 10,000mah battery power.

When racing when turning right the outside motor gets more load, therefore running down the outside battery more then the inside battery.

Toward the end of the race the boat will want to turn Left, seeing that the inside battery has more power left in it then the outside battery does.

The plug in between on the black wire is so you can disconnect the two ESC's from each other when programing.

Larry

[dmitry100]

Larry, So your point is that these Castle ESC are that much more sensitive to lipo voltage differences than others?

I'm just trying to sync up both controllers so that both motors more or less spin equally. Because as of right ... on the bench ... one motor would be spinning at 5-10k RPM and the other would would be barely moving or at a complete stop.

[TRUCKPULL]

Larry, So your point is that these Castle ESC are that much more sensitive to lipo voltage differences than others?

I'm just trying to sync up both controllers so that both motors more or less spin equally. Because as of right ... on the bench ... one motor would be spinning at 5-10k RPM and the other would would be barely moving or at a complete stop.

Dmitry

Not that Castle are more sensitive, I think that any two ESC's without being connected in parallel would give you the result in my scenario above (post #104).
I think that your problem is that the two ESC's are not setup or programed the same.

Are you using a Castel Link to program your ESC's?

Larry

[dmitry100]

Yea, I'm using the Castle link.

I tried connecting both controllers to 1 battery like Tyler suggested and it actually improved throttle sync when I changed the throttle type to Auto Calibration .

Calibration of throttle type "fixed endpoints" is what I'm having the issue with. No matter what I do I can't get it to save the endpoints.

I think I'll just ditch this futaba 4pls and get a stick transmitter or even a spektrum pistol one which I hear works without a pistix.. since all of my ESC's are all converted airplane ESC's anyway

[RaceMechaniX]

Try this, program each ESC with the Castle Link and set the throttle type to fixed end points. Make sure the timing, start power, current limiting, etc is all the same with both.
Remove your Pistix and directly connect the ESC Y adapter to your radio still with both red wires removed.
On you radio go to the "TH MODE" on MENU 2 and adjust the setting to 7:3. This changes the throttle neutral setting so you have 70% forward and 30% rearward. page 80 of the manual.
Set your main throttle sub trim to B100 and your main trim to B40. This moves the resting trigger point to essentially the same position as stick radio with the throttle down.
Connect the ESC's and test. You may need to adjust the main trim to a lower value like B45 or B50.
Using a 2S battery give full throttle and then check your data. If you still not see 100% power in the Castle data something else is wrong.

I use Futaba pistol radio's only and have many ICE200 controllers in boats with no pistix. Hopefully this works for you.

-Tyler

[dmitry100]

Thanks man, I'll try that. Appreciate it.

[dmitry100]

Tyler, that worked great, now without having to use the pistix.

FINALLY made the calibrations sync up on both ESC's and now both motors seem to respond to throttle the same. Though I did notice what you mentioned regarding each ESC being kind of different. Each motor would trade spinning on slight 5% throttle taps.

I had to max out the EndPoint settings in the Transmitter (to 120%) and increase the Trim to 50 -- only then did the ESC save the calibration when I fired up both ESC's with the trigger pulled in full throttle -- the ESC's would beep almost continuously with 3 beep bursts and then I would pull trigger in full reverse and then it would beep in the same manner until I released the trigger to neutral. Then I would pull the power on them.

In the Castle Link Settings I also set the Motor Startup setting value to 0 ... Maybe that helped. Maybe each controller had its own way going about it -- since each motor is wired differently for rotation.

[RaceMechaniX]

With the the fixed end points, you should not need to go through the Full throttle, Full brake, Nuetral routine. This is only for ground based controllers like the ICE Hydra's and car ESC's.
The plane ESC's just need the EPA and trim worked out and then everytime you fire it up it should be the same.

Now for the strong caution. Be sure the set the failsafe with the new settings. Use the offset Neutral or full brake as the FS setting. Do this before you run.

[dmitry100]

My Fail Safe at the moment (as they are by default) are set as Throttle: Mode: OFF, Position: (FREE)

Do you mean I should set it as Throttle: Mode: F/S, Position: 0, B-FS: OFF ?

[RaceMechaniX]

You should turn your fail safe on, the position should be something like B80. The simple way is to just hold the set buttons at the neutral trigger position. This neutral is something like B80-B100 with modified trim setting when using the aircraft controllers. I am not sure how to set the F/S on the 4PLS, but check the instructions.

The battery fail safe is also a good idea to turn on. Set it to 3.5V or whatever the standard setting in the radio is.

[dmitry100]

Fail Safes set with Throttle: Mode: OFF, Position: (FREE) seems to work -- even if i turn off the transmitter or RX

I'm assuming you're talking about the Trigger Calibration setting on the radio... that sets neutral, brake, full

[RaceMechaniX]

When the failsafe is set correctly it is safer than just the receiver not having a stored FS.

[dmitry100]

Is the max value of 1.965ms for "Throttle In" from the data log an accurate number when hitting Full Throttle?

[CraigP]

2ms is standard time, so yes, it’s right in there...

[dmitry100]

It appears that the throttle issues were worked out and seem to be working like normal and hitting full throttle as it should... The HPR99 cat runs fine once it manages to get on plane. Just that the throttle "variations" like you described Tyler are there and are incredibly annoying as it sometimes makes the cat unsteady before it gains up the speed and it only happens randomly... sometimes before a pass and sometimes not. Maybe I'll try tweaking the motor startup settings to a much higher setting and see if it makes any difference. It's really random... in terms of which sides wants to go faster before it speeds up for another pass :/ lol. so strange.

Better than a complete roll over compared to before though i guess. Maybe I'll shoot an email to Castle and see if they have any remedies for this issue... Surely even a cheapo hobbywing esc can get it right.

[srislash]

Dmitry are you referring to the damn waggle at lowish speeds on the HPR? I am having this issue with the 115 to the degree of popping one prop out of the water. I am assuming it is a dihedral hull thing and it seems to be fine if I just ‘nail it’. I’m just running Swordy Lite’s so No logs to read to help. I’m just getting mine going so I guess I am just somewhat behind you.

[dmitry100]

Yea that’s the one. Well then, I’m glad it might not be a symptom of the castle edge/ice throttles differences. Could it be that there is too much lift being created on the rear near props? I think I’ll play around with the drive angles and CoG a bit. Perhaps there’s not enough prop in water...

I’ve also noticed that when setting the hull on an even table surface —some of the steps don’t exactly match the opposite side in height. Primarily the 2nd step before the last on one side which causes the last step (before drives) on one opposite side to have like 4-5mm of air while other one is perfectly touches the surface. I doubt that helps given how sensitive these hulls are after all. I’ll need to sand it down and see if it helps at all...

Btw, have you tried playing around with the angle of rudder blade? What angle is yours set at currently

If I remember correctly, Don’t all of the SF300 lite versions have data logging capability?