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Thread: Need some help collecting motor data

  1. #1

    Default Need some help collecting motor data

    Hello all,

    I am reposting this request outside of the IMPBA "Spec or P-Limited" motor discussion. I am hoping by putting this in it's own thread more people will see my request and offer to help.

    I would like to collect some weight data associated to the 37X62 motor limits. Anyone willing to weigh the motors they have (minus cooling jacket and collet) would be appreciated. The following is what I would be looking for;

    Manufacturer
    Model and KV
    Measured Length
    Measured Diameter (Not a priority)
    Actual Measured Weight noting if the value includes connectors or not

    The more data points the better even if it’s the exact same motor multiple times.

    Thanks
    Mike

  2. #2

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    All motors? Darin has a pretty good list somewhere. If I sell it, I can help fill in the blanks. Let me know?
    Steven Vaccaro

    Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

  3. #3

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Vaccaro View Post
    All motors? Darin has a pretty good list somewhere. If I sell it, I can help fill in the blanks. Let me know?
    Hi Steven,

    The only component that Darin didn't have in his data was the actual weight of the motor. I would use the information published by the manufacturers, but we have already seen instances where can length isn't consistent. I can only assume there will be variations of the weight between different winds and the variations in length.

    With that being said I would appreciate any data you can provide as stated above. The primary items will be actual weight minus cooling jacket noting if the value includes connectors or not, and an actual measured length.

    Thanks
    Mike

  4. #4

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    Mike..

    Bone stock AQ 2030..206g.

  5. #5

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    Mike...

    1)Bone stock TP 1950....261g..can length 59mm
    2)Bone stock TP 1950....259g...can length 59mm

    These were the ones Peterson was offering up a few years ago.
    Last edited by Doby; 02-17-2018 at 01:03 PM.

  6. #6

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doby View Post
    Mike...

    1)Bone stock TP 1950....261g
    2)Bone stock TP 1950....259g

    These were the ones Peterson was offering up a few years ago.
    If you could get me the can length on each one of these that would be helpful. The TP's seemed to change that several times. Thanks for your help!

  7. #7

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    aqua7001 2030kv 56.4mm 209.4gr with 4mm connectors
    tp 3630 1950kv 57.6mm 267.7gr with NO connectors
    leopard 3660 x2 60.2mm 262.6gr with 6mm connectors


    if you want any other weights of something Im selling let me know?

    Just a note, the tp3630 will not be the same from each reseller. Customers have requested them in the shorter cases over the last 2 years, so we have ordered them that way.
    Steven Vaccaro

    Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

  8. #8

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    Here's a cleaner list of what I've actually had in my hands and personally measured.

    And for those reviewing these numbers and specifically the "Spec Neu 1415" compared to the "Mod Neu 1415"...
    I have NO IDEA why after reducing the can and shaft length by 8.6mm, the weight is almost exactly the same.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    Last edited by dethow; 02-16-2018 at 02:51 PM.
    Have fun with that....

  9. #9

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Vaccaro View Post
    if you want any other weights of something Im selling let me know?
    Hi Steve, thanks for that data
    I'll step in here and help Mike out.

    These additional motors would be good the have actual measurements on:
    Leopard 3660 X2 2380kv
    SSS 3660 1620kv
    OSE Raider 3660 in all 3 winds (1700, 1850 and 2030kv)
    TP 3630 in the 1500kv and 2220kv winds
    Neu 1415 1Y 2200kv
    TP 3640 4Y 1935kv
    Have fun with that....

  10. #10

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    Stuck the thread Mike. Thanks for taking this on, and thanks for the help fellas!
    TOY BOAT RACER
    Sponsored by Smock Racing
    IMPBA National Records Director
    IMPBA Dist.13 Director
    IMPBA 19887CD
    NAMBA 1169

  11. #11

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    Harder to find data will be on the Lehner 1930 and 1940. It'd be really helpful if someone with either/both of these motors could provide some actual measurements and weights.

    Spec weight of a 1930 is 230g. Don't know if that's with or without the fan. Size wise it would fit within a 37mm x 62mm limit with or without the fan. And based on the spec weight it looks like a max weight limit of 270g area would still allow this motor to qualify. Which I think is fine.

    Spec weight of a 1940 is 290g. This motor measures 64mm long without a fan so it seems it MAY be possible to cut down to 62mm. However, with a weight limit of 270g area, it APPEARS this would remove the possible cut down 1940 from being a legal motor. Which I think is another step in the right direction.
    Have fun with that....

  12. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by longballlumber View Post
    If you could get me the can length on each one of these that would be helpful. The TP's seemed to change that several times. Thanks for your help!
    Sorry Mike, I update post #5 with the lengths.

  13. #13

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    Morning guys,

    Keep the information coming. The more motors the better; even if it's the same model.

  14. #14

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    Mike,
    On Saturday...Besides all the Neu motors I will also bring two Dynamite 1500s. I need change out the connectors on them so I will burn off the stock ones and bring those bare so you can get some good weights on them. Actually, same thing with the one Dynamite 2000 I have. I'll bring that bare as well.
    Have fun with that....

  15. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by dethow View Post
    Mike,
    On Saturday...Besides all the Neu motors I will also bring two Dynamite 1500s. I need change out the connectors on them so I will burn off the stock ones and bring those bare so you can get some good weights on them. Actually, same thing with the one Dynamite 2000 I have. I'll bring that bare as well.
    Actually Dave, along with the bare motors bring the loose can coolers also. If we weigh those independently we may be able to keep a "cheat sheet" handy showing the predetermined weight allowance for "X brand of Water Jacket". Then some quick math will help determine if motor is over the limit. I can tell you an Aquacraft gold cooling jacket is around 33grams from memory. I would suspect the HRC jackets will be the heaviest.

    We can do the same thing with Connectors.

  16. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by longballlumber View Post
    Actually Dave, along with the bare motors bring the loose can coolers also. If we weigh those independently we may be able to keep a "cheat sheet" handy showing the predetermined weight allowance for "X brand of Water Jacket". Then some quick math will help determine if motor is over the limit. I can tell you an Aquacraft gold cooling jacket is around 33grams from memory. I would suspect the HRC jackets will be the heaviest.

    We can do the same thing with Connectors.
    Will do on the cans... And I'll also bring a couple of the OSE upgrade jackets that I use on my motors.
    https://www.offshoreelectrics.com/pr...=ham-ul1-sv27r

    I'll make sure to document a weight on those motors before I remove the stock connectors and I'll bring the stock connectors with me as well.
    Have fun with that....

  17. #17

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    Okay, I found 18 motors to measure if I don't pull any out if boats. Some are duplicates.

    I have some loose jackets too.
    glue sniffer

  18. #18
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    Mike,

    I will measure some of the cans I have after oval trials this weekend. Many years ago now, I started sourcing motors, specifically for 2s setups and records. After testing with motors from nearly every manufacturer imaginable, I final resolved to winding my own motors. At present, several of my records are set using a 60mm can. However, I believe my cans measure just over the 37mm. I haven't weighed my final versions in quite some time as I've needed a little weight to prevent blowovers at higher speeds.

    I guess the point is, I should still have tons of cans to measure from various manufacturers. I'll need to see if they still make quite a few of them. I loved my Lehner Basic XL until it finally let go several years ago now. I probably put 400 runs on that motor.
    IMPBA: 7-Time FE World Record Holder "Don't think outside the box. Rather, refuse to admit that the box exists in the first place!"

    MGM Controllers - Giant Power Lipos - ML Boatworks - Wholt's Wire Drives & Struts - Nano-Oil

  19. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meniscus View Post
    I final resolved to winding my own motors.
    Long time Ben.

    Please start a thread and show us your tooling, process, etc. This topic has come up quite a bit lately.

    Good luck this weekend.
    TOY BOAT RACER
    Sponsored by Smock Racing
    IMPBA National Records Director
    IMPBA Dist.13 Director
    IMPBA 19887CD
    NAMBA 1169

  20. #20

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    He, who is that cool dude in Doug's Avatar? Is that Mr. Allnut from the African Queen?

  21. #21

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Shooter View Post
    He, who is that cool dude in Doug's Avatar? Is that Mr. Allnut from the African Queen?
    That's Doug in the 1920's!

  22. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doby View Post
    That's Doug in the 1920's!
    Actually 1935. I went by Clark back then.
    TOY BOAT RACER
    Sponsored by Smock Racing
    IMPBA National Records Director
    IMPBA Dist.13 Director
    IMPBA 19887CD
    NAMBA 1169

  23. #23

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Doby View Post
    That's Doug in the 1920's!
    Actually 1935. I went by Clark back then.
    TOY BOAT RACER
    Sponsored by Smock Racing
    IMPBA National Records Director
    IMPBA Dist.13 Director
    IMPBA 19887CD
    NAMBA 1169

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doug Smock View Post
    Long time Ben.

    Please start a thread and show us your tooling, process, etc. This topic has come up quite a bit lately.

    Good luck this weekend.
    I'll see if I can find some pictures from the last time I did it which would have been over 2 years ago. Switched phones since then and I don't know where the pictures are. They were mainly reference pictures for myself, as far as I can remember, so I don't know how meaningful they will be for others. I'll definitely document the next time I do it, but I have have several motors for when we have a SAW event again. Not sure they will be helpful for others here on the forum. I typically run slotted motors and I know everyone is in love with slotless!

    I will say that unless you have the time and patience, it really isn't worth it for most boaters. With motor prices dropping and so many reliable designs out there now, I would tell most folks to choose a motor with appropriate kv for their application and spend more time on the water refining your setups.

    That said, if someone is interested in doing special winds for small outrunners, there's lots of videos out there on YouTube for that stuff. All I can say is carefully choose your wire for the outrunners running in boats. Don't expect but so much current to go through them. They are great for micros, but not as successful for larger models without spending more than you would for a conventional inrunner for boats.

    Didn't read the good luck note until this afternoon. As you know, I did well this weekend and got one record, but my cat was too fast to turn properly, especially considering the size combined with the speed. It may remain a SAW boat, unless I have something up my sleeve.
    IMPBA: 7-Time FE World Record Holder "Don't think outside the box. Rather, refuse to admit that the box exists in the first place!"

    MGM Controllers - Giant Power Lipos - ML Boatworks - Wholt's Wire Drives & Struts - Nano-Oil

  25. #25
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    OK, so I measured several motors now that I have in the shop. Many would not apply since the cans measure 37.8 diameter or so. Many of the others are no longer available.

    I'm not interested in re-hashing the other thread, but I will say that there are a few specific motors out of China which should be excluded. Provided below is the reason for excluding some of these motors:
    • They are 6-pole motors that have 2kw max. They can actually see closer to 2.5kw which means they can turn some really big props.
    • They are slotted motors which do not mind being run too hard. With the natural characteristics of cooling of the motor design themselves, they could be compared to a non-interference IC motor since they can survive very high temps.
    • The shear torque for some of the Delta winds, combined with the increased current capability, makes them an unfair advantage. (I will be happy to discuss with anyone, separate from this thread, the practical application of Delta winds, despite conventional wisdom that may be found on the web or on other threads).
    • They measure less than allowable.
    • Most of these motors weigh less than 200 grams without connectors.
    • They come in kv up to 2450 or so, but there are some that measure higher based on differences in manufacturing.
    • They are available in Wye winds, so advanced timing could mean even higher RPMs, even on larger props.
    • The wires are a little wimpy, but they do sustain 120A pretty easily.
    • They cost less than $50 in almost all cases.


    For a little perspective, I have tested various 6-pole motors on 2s pretty extensively. Off the shelf, without special orders or winding myself, a boater can do some pretty outrageous speeds on a capable model (including monos) while still drawing lower amps than most would think. For example, on 2s, I can do passes at over 65mph while only pulling 135A, without an ultralight model or special setup, on low timing. That is for an off-the-shelf motor! As we all know, on 2s, a comparable setup is A LOT more amps.

    For various reasons, I have chosen not to identify the make or model of these motors here. There's no reason to further complicate the discussions by introducing yet another way for someone to bend the rules, whatever they may end-up being. If there is an interested party (IMPBA or NAMBA named national director or similar), then please feel free to contact me and I can provide the info necessary to review.

    I'm sorry I couldn't find other motors in the shop that conform to the specs and are still in production.
    IMPBA: 7-Time FE World Record Holder "Don't think outside the box. Rather, refuse to admit that the box exists in the first place!"

    MGM Controllers - Giant Power Lipos - ML Boatworks - Wholt's Wire Drives & Struts - Nano-Oil

  26. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by Meniscus View Post
    • They are 6-pole motors that have 2kw max. They can actually see closer to 2.5kw which means they can turn some really big props.
    • They are slotted motors which do not mind being run too hard. With the natural characteristics of cooling of the motor design themselves, they could be compared to a non-interference IC motor since they can survive very high temps.


    For those interested. Its a few pages. But interesting.

    https://www.techbriefs.com/component.../22932?start=1
    Steven Vaccaro

    Where Racing on a Budget is a Reality!

  27. #27
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    Thank you Steven. Obviously, there are many, many variables. I should have provided a little more info for those that are not familiar.

    I will say I love slotless over slotted, but when current capacity is a factor, I typically run slotted on lower voltage setups. Then again, I typically only run at full throttle and do not run partial throttle like many of the sport boaters on the forum.

    It is important to mention one word of caution. Slotted motors can be very hard on ESCs, especially as the pole count is increased to a 6-pole. That said, please do not think that you can take a cheap ESC and use it with a larger, 6-pole slotted motor (not an outrunner). It can be done, but the ESC will get very hot if it can't efficiently deliver the necessary pulses. All other advice should be followed such as starting with a smaller prop and work your way up while measuring temps and monitoring amps.

    As many boaters will admit, there is no magic motor. The deciding factor is the reliability you get from the motor verses your outlay of cash. If you are made of money, I have some projects that could use contributions! For the record, no contributions are being accepted at this time, unless you have a 'magic prop'!

    Getting back to topic, I'll go back through my notes when I scoured the world for motors to see if there are others that would fall within the specs discussed. I'm sure we can enlist the help from some of the folks on the other side of the pond to measure and weigh the motors.
    IMPBA: 7-Time FE World Record Holder "Don't think outside the box. Rather, refuse to admit that the box exists in the first place!"

    MGM Controllers - Giant Power Lipos - ML Boatworks - Wholt's Wire Drives & Struts - Nano-Oil

  28. #28
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    Please do not forget this link. It has tons of motor data, including exotics, that may not be found through typical searches. Some info is older and have dead links.

    http://www.progressiverc.com/media/p...ess_Motor.html
    IMPBA: 7-Time FE World Record Holder "Don't think outside the box. Rather, refuse to admit that the box exists in the first place!"

    MGM Controllers - Giant Power Lipos - ML Boatworks - Wholt's Wire Drives & Struts - Nano-Oil

  29. #29

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Steven Vaccaro View Post
    For those interested. Its a few pages. But interesting.

    https://www.techbriefs.com/component.../22932?start=1
    Good stuff boss.
    TOY BOAT RACER
    Sponsored by Smock Racing
    IMPBA National Records Director
    IMPBA Dist.13 Director
    IMPBA 19887CD
    NAMBA 1169

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