More limited motor discussion

[dethow]

Beyond all that... with both P-Limited/Spec and this whole 8th scale thing. The one thing that becomes very apparent is that its literally impossible to set limiting motor/power rules for FE. Everything is impossible to tech with certainty and/or as many feel it's to invasive to pull a motor for weight.

It seems that the only path forward in both of these situations may be to accept that limits can NOT be done. Maybe it's best to just have open classes with no power limits which will have national titles and/or records. Then we take the P-Limited/Spec along with Limited/Spec 8th and 10th scales and create sub classes which don't have national titles or records. These would be classes with the sole purpose of making it easier for new people to get involved. All P size boats, the 8th scales and 10th scales would have a second "Limited/Spec" class which dictates specific motors. Obvious the list for the 3 different boat sizes would have different motors specified. All other rules for those classes would remain the same.

The IMPBA FE Director has recently told me that his opinion of the NAMBA P-Limited motor list is that: "it worked". And it did.... until it didn't. It didn't work when people figured out the rules couldn't be tech'd and it now doesn't work since we are looking at future limited motor supply/options.

Well what if we eliminate one problem by not allowing these classes to hold national titles and/or records? Kinda gets rid of the "can't be tech'd" thing. Who cares??? We're just having fun with toy boats in these classes and helping new guys get things figured out without braking the bank.

And then we eliminate the other issue with the NAMBA motor list by writing something which allows for change and evolution based on motor supply and maybe a little consideration into what's coming in current RTR boats that fit the boat specs for the class. I wrote something about this in the "(Moved)Another P Limited / Spec motor discussion" post # 124.
Here's a link to the thread. https://forums.offshoreelectrics.com...scussion/page5


Anyway... not trying to stir the pot here. After reading I/W today, I see the big picture more than ever and just think there must be a way past all the arguing about rules and things that can't be tech'd. The 8th scale discussion on there makes this all obvious and Darin had a post on there which really broke it down. This stuff just can't be tech'd... But yet we need something as organizations to help bring in and make it easier for new guys. That became apparent by the rational of the 8th scale rule writer who seems to have done this so that new guys know exactly what to buy/run. And he has some support for that thought process that shouldn't just be ignored.

I hope this post can be taken as a positive and positive steps forward.

And let's stop talking about the end of NAMBA and whatnot... There's a problem with points on both sides. The answer may be as stated above. Give both sides a place to race. But don't allow the one that can't be tech'd to have national titles or records. Simple and reasonable. IMO

[Doug Smock]

If you were engaged with your club you would already have the answer to #2. Or you could go review the Nats thread.

[T.S.Davis]

Doug, if someone is on your ignore list can they still see your posts? This may explain some of the leading questions. I'm very done discussing some of this.

The limited parameters for the nats next month were decided on by Tom and myself with merely some guidance from our national director. Thanks again Mike. We're the representatives for the hosting club and I'm the contest directorfor the event. We will be delegating authority to Chris Rupley for the on water duties. Thank you Chris. At NO point did the BOD interject their opinion into the guidelines for the NATS. They had already approved the class list despite us not having a clear cut definition for spec. While I appreciate how much effort is being put into exposing the BOD as some over bearing rule mongers........it simply isn't the case. That would be the part I'm growing weary of.

For that matter, NAMBA isn't like that either. There's no conspiracy with either of these organizations. NAMBA WANTS to give the members absolute power. It may well have been the inspiration for their founding. They are not a representative republic (for lack of a better term) like IMPBA is. IMPBA elects district directors to be the voice of a districts members. It's their responsibility to defend the views of their peeps. Like........"hey, you think l like me. Go make sure we don't get hosed". The NAMBA way can work too and has but it requires a level of responsibility by those that would like to see change. They need to make sure their ideas are beneficial to the organization. If your idea is producing a lot of negative feedback it might not be a grand idea. There is no next level of folks reviewing your thinking to check against people from elsewhere. So ya gotta do it yerself. If ya don't, you get what we have here.

[dethow]

If you were engaged with your club you would already have the answer to #2. Or you could go review the Nats thread.

Okay Doug… And this is what I found in that thread on post # 96.

Guys, All of the classes offered by the MMEU for the 2018 IMPBA Fast Electric Nationals are "National Championship" classes.

A 36" sail boat class with a maximum sail area of 1.75 square feet would be eligible for "National Championship" if approved by the BOD.

Happy New Year fellas!!

D.

So I’ll ask again… What mechanism is in place for the IMPBA BODs to take a P-Limited/Spec motor proposal and set rules for a FE Nationals event without a membership vote? Or for that matter... a 36"sail boat?

Maybe there is a reasonable explanation… just asking for it.

[dethow]

Doug, if someone is on your ignore list can they still see your posts?

Is this in regards to me??? Have you put me on a ignore list Terry? Or am I misunderstanding?

[Doug Smock]

Seriously David? Yes Terry the keyboard warriors can still read your posts.

[T.S.Davis]

.......and here we are again. I went back and checked to see if I mention the BOD at all. Nope. Didn't. These are the exact words I used to explain the motor rules for the NATS. How you can draw from these that the BOD was the authority having jurisdiction is beyond me.

Okay guys. After much discussion but very nearly zero disagreement between us....Tom, Mike and I have come up with a temporary ruling for the spec motors for this event. This applies to this event only at this point. It is NOT the official final word on any IMPBA rule set. As the host club we can define these as we think is necessary. However, we have done so with the guidance of our national FE director. So basically it's our call and we made it with input from Mr. Ball. Really appreciate the effort Mike.

Going with this for the event:

Spec motors shall not exceed the dimensions of 37mm diameter X 62mm can length and shall not exceed 268 grams (minus can cooler, collet, mounting fasteners, and motor connectors). All protest shall be executed as identified in Section K, page 5 of the IMPBA rule book and be applied as applicable based on the CD's discretion

Still confused? I could make the type larger.

[dethow]

For that matter, NAMBA isn't like that either. There's no conspiracy with either of these organizations. NAMBA WANTS to give the members absolute power. It may well have been the inspiration for their founding. They are not a representative republic (for lack of a better term) like IMPBA is. IMPBA elects district directors to be the voice of a districts members. It's their responsibility to defend the views of their peeps. Like........"hey, you think l like me. Go make sure we don't get hosed". The NAMBA way can work too and has but it requires a level of responsibility by those that would like to see change. They need to make sure their ideas are beneficial to the organization. If your idea is producing a lot of negative feedback it might not be a grand idea. There is no next level of folks reviewing your thinking to check against people from elsewhere. So ya gotta do it yerself. If ya don't, you get what we have here.

Is that the answer? Is IMPBA like a republic of elected district directors which represent all members with no votes for new rules by the membership? Nothing wrong with that if that's the case. More or less the same as the American government.

Not really what I’m reading in the IMPBA rule book thou… Appears that the BODs needs to support a rule proposal but then that proposal goes under a year of trail and then sent out to membership for vote.

[T.S.Davis]

What ever Dave. I'm not mincing word with you any more. You need professional help yer not getting. I'm finished being nice about it.

[dethow]

No need to get mad Terry... no one was accusing you of anything.

Just looking for an answer on how we have an IMPBA FE National event with spec motor classes which are eligible for National Titles? That’s a question for the BODs, not you. And Mike Ball wasn't the FE Director when this event was born. So Mike if you want to answer fine... But I think you've been thrown in the middle of this enough. I actually believe you are the one person who can bring IMPBA back down, but I wouldn't blame you for this current Poop Show you've been dealt.

And while I truly appreciative your bold red print, Terry. The BODs approved you and Tom's original proposal for the dimensional only spec rules. Then Doug Smock (a member of the BODs) put out a statement that "All of the classes offered by the MMEU for the 2018 IMPBA Fast Electric Nationals are "National Championship" classes." Then after the 1415 motor fiasco, Mike B. stepped in and helped you and Tom modify the spec rule so that those motors wouldn't hurt the event. And since Mike is also member of the BODs and probably had the blessing of the rest.... I don't think its a stretch to say the IMPBA BODs has set rules for an IMPBA National event which will result in National Titles for classes which there has been no membership vote.
And even if you go ahead and leave the BODs out of this as you seem to argue. Then we have two members and a single member of the BODs who set these rules and another member of the BODs has proclaimed that those classes will be for a IMPBA "National Championship". Your version is worse Terry.

But Terry,
Sad that things are heading down this road. I won't air the dirty laundry on this forum. Our issues have to do with MMEU business. I will send you an email since it sounds like you've blocked me here.

Can't believe a Core Member has blocked a member of his own club. Especially, since we've always been on the same side regarding the motor rules all along. Sorry I pointed out a major issue with the dimensional only limits.

And whatever else you think I may have done wrong regarding how I conducted myself in the motor discussions. Look in a mirror Terry. You've been no better in the past and currently. The things you've said both here and on I/W to/about that NAMBA member, the NAMBA rules and even by assassination... the NAMBA BODs. Your rants are just as passionate and out of control sometimes.... but I guess that's ok? Ok, because you're Terry Davis and everyone is used to it.

[Doug Smock]

Get it out of your system David. I'll be dragging a broom and dust pan through this NAMBA thread shortly. ��

[dethow]

Get it out of your system David. I'll be dragging a broom and dust pan through this NAMBA thread shortly. ��

I figured as much Doug.... LOL

Don't answer the question. Just sweep it under the rug.

None of this would have even come up if some IMPBA members weren't bashing NAMBA members and rules. And that's how this all connects to be within a NAMBA thread. It's the pot calling the kettle black.

I asked a couple simple questions. NAMBA FE Director answered his because everything was on the up and up.
What's going on with the IMPBA guys? I'm being told that I need professional help and you're threatening to start deleting posts. Nice!

[TRUCKPULL]

Get it out of your system David. I'll be dragging a broom and dust pan through this NAMBA thread shortly. ��

Please Do.

Larry

[T.S.Davis]

Don't bother Dave. I'm adding you to my spam filter. You're not an active club member and never have anything positive to contribute to the club anyway.

If the club wants rid of me they know how to do that.

[dethow]

Please Do.

Larry

Larry... do you understand what's happening here? And you're okay with this?
Your okay with IMPBA BODs setting a president on establishing rules for a National Event with no membership vote?

WOW!!! You guys are truly lost if that's the case.

But not so fast... Doug. I think Steve should voice in on this. You have a conflict of interest here. I can kinda understand moving some of this to a IMPBA thread, but I feel this actually ties to the NAMBA issue since accusations are being made that NAMBA rules are being abused. While the ones making those accusation are abusing rules far worse. Its a defense to NAMBA, their members, their BODs, and their rules.

[dethow]

Don't bother Dave. I'm adding you to my spam filter. You're not an active club member and never have anything positive to contribute to the club anyway.

If the club wants rid of me they know how to do that.

Nice Terry,
First of all... I'm as much an active member as Mike Ball and many others. I pay my dues but choose not to race at this time.

And up until all this started I was making positive contributions. Was always there to help get setup and tear down at race events. Was even starting to call some heats. Even started to head of the raffle for the Nats. Put everything together and mailed 70 envelopes which I didn't charge the club for. Chose not to continue when this all started and I decided not to be involved in the Nats in any way. But I did leave you and Tom with emails and everything ready to go.

I feel your attack on my character and contributions are a direct reflection on yours. Can't answer a simple question, so you start attacking and burning bridges with a fellow club member.

Sad day for IMPBA, sad day for MMEU and sad day for you Terry. I truly feel bad for you.

[TRUCKPULL]

Dave

How many times have you been told to leave things alone. They are being worked out. But you never do.
You keep bring the BOD into your statements. They don't set the rules (We as the membership do)

The rules for the spec class at this years FE Nat's Have been approved by every person that has signed up for those classes.
If they disagree with those rules- I don't thing they would have singed up.

We all agree that you were right on the 1415 NEU motor for spec.
So the rule was changed,
Seeing that it had to be changed, The proposal was pulled.

After this Nat's (we will see how it goes)
Your club and others will run these new rules, then a new proposal will be summited.

Larry

[dethow]

The rules for the spec class at this years FE Nat's Have been approved by every person that has signed up for those classes.
If they disagree with those rules- I don't thing they would have singed up.

With all due respect Larry... that's not how it works.

And Larry, I was leaving this alone. This all came back to light because there are certain people throwing around accusations at NAMBA members and rules that are not fair considering the actions they are currently undertaking in the IMPBA.

I wasn't going to say a thing about this publicly until after the Nats. Check with Mike B. and Steve V. I've talked to both of them directly about this but desided to not put a bad taste on the Nats.

The ones who got this going were those whom couldn't leave an 8th scale rule along. It was voted on and passed. Drop it.
These two issues tie together because there are implications of not being able to tech things. The P-limited/spec motor rules has been tied to this discussion on I/W.

So it wasn't really me who brought this all back to light. And I'm not really talking about the motor rules or what to do with them. This is in regards to how and why the IMPBA BODs and two club members set multiple "National Championship" classes for an FE National Event without a membership vote.

No motor talk here... And if its as simple as just shut up and let the BODs do whatever they want. You know there's a phase for that some like to use.
Good Ol' Boys Club.

[T.S.Davis]

So...............I'm corrupt and have corrupted MMEU, NAMBA, and IMPBA. Also based on that corruption the BOD has corrupted the FE Nats and it should be cancelled asap. Got it...................I think.

Steven, how much is enough?

[Doug Smock]

David, You need to go to your District Director to get your questions answered. Nobody here from the IMPBA has any credibility. I wouldn't dream of deleting your posts. I'll gently place them one of the threads in the IMPBA forum. Please take your club business off line or to the club forum.