Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7891011 LastLast
Results 241 to 270 of 320

Thread: More limited motor discussion

  1. #241
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    I have a couple questions. Who knows. Maybe Brian or Dave are still seeing these. If we rolled back the hands of time and proposed this class way back when with L x W x Weight...........would there have been any discussion of these rules for last 8 years or so? I personally think there wouldn't have been nearly the hand wringing. We also wouldn't have had this thread. If that's fair (at all) it begs another question.....................what's the down side to having a national rule set for these? What's the deterrent so to speak?

    Mike had asked what the benefit to IMPBA was. Participation is the short answer. Participation is the only reason for any rule set at the hobby level. We could ask that of all the classes. What's the benefit of having rules for say Thunderboat or gas hydro, or sport 20? Guys wanted to race them together. Needed a guideline. Made sense. So why not just let the clubs decide what Thunderboat is? Give them a suggestion but let them do what ever? Why not do that?

    For that matter.....................why have any national rules? It's a leading question obviously. The idea is for people to know what they're getting no matter where they race.
    EXACTLY!!!!!!!
    This is the leadership at IMPBA not wanting anyone to be upset with them. Snowflakes… This is a lack of leadership. Have some balls and write a rule instead of passing the buck down to districts and clubs. All so they (BOD) can say “Don’t complain to us. Not our rules.”

    Terry, you hit the nail on the head. If a national rule for a class needs to have benefit to IMPBA outside of participation… I’ll expect to see ALL national rules abolished.

    I’ve had it said to me by several different people over the past couple days that the BODs “thinks” they’re doing the right thing for IMPBA. NO… they don’t. They are doing what they “think” will cause the least amount of bitching to them. It’s that plain and simple.

    A national rule would bring more conformity and thus more participation to the classes. Participation is what’s best for IMPBA and they’re missing the mark here.

    I will not race under IMPBA moving forward if this continues to be their path.
    Have fun with that....

  2. #242
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheShaughnessy View Post
    In regards to attracting Joe new guy, are any rtr boats coming with information about NAMBA or IMPBA? I just checked the UL19 manual and there is no mention of any racing, not sure if a separate page might be included. I know the only way I found out about organized racing was from either a flier or a page in the owners manual of my SV27. It read something like, when you get tired of boating on an open lake try making some buoys from milk jugs and racing around them. Still bored? Check out what organizations might be close to you, either NAMBA or IMPBA, boating with friends is always more fun.

    I think the boat precedes the book.
    Why would boat manufactures do anything to promote NAMBA or IMPBA? Those organizations do nothing to promote them…
    The current format of NAMBA to promote RTR is go buy a RTR and either put in a slower motor to complete in P-ltd class or go buy a RTR and rip everything out for upgrades to complete in open P classes.
    The current format of IMPBA to promote RTR is… nothing. Crickets singing to snowflakes falling from the sky.
    Oh… wait I’m sorry, they may write a “Technical Bulletin” with recommendations for districts and clubs.

    Both organizations have an opportunity to develop a new class which would bring participation from RTR boats. But both organizations aren’t showing much progress in the endeavor. So again… why would manufactures promote NAMBA or IMPBA?

    Maybe that’s the answer, Terry… IMPBA would benefit from for a national rule because if they had something that was more inclusive to RTR manufactures they would have the ability to launch a campaign to get manufactures to promote their organization. Manufactures may be willing to put a flier in their boxes if that organization had a class which their boats could actually run out of the box.

    But who am I kidding... I've been told by several people that NAMBA and IMPBA don't care about RTR and they're not going to write a rule to accommodate them. So again… why would manufactures promote NAMBA or IMPBA?

    I think the bigger question here is... why are there many threads here on this forum regarding ways to bring participation up? But yet with the answer right in front of us, the 2 organizations are thumbing their nose up at the RTR manufactures. I believe the answer is because the 2 organizations don't really want more participation. They want a good-ole-boys club.
    Have fun with that....

  3. #243
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    6,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dethow View Post
    I think the bigger question here is... why are there many threads here on this forum regarding ways to bring participation up? But yet with the answer right in front of us, the 2 organizations are thumbing their nose up at the RTR manufactures. I believe the answer is because the 2 organizations don't really want more participation. They want a good-ole-boys club.
    I don't think that's fair Dave. I know these guys. Some of them personally. I did think that for a long time though. The more involved I got the less I thought that. I also used think they were just resistant to change. Stubborn. Whatever. Having been the guy to sift through the yuck I now think of it more as being protective. Cautious even.

    I would label it a curious thing though. There is resistance to a spec set of rules. Is it the history? 10000 page of BS doesn't inspire anyone to want to even talk about spec. However, if we had done something like what we've been talking about of late........... right from the beginning I don't know if we would have 10000 pages of BS. Really would like to understand it. In my huge empty head.
    Noisy person

  4. #244
    Join Date
    Jul 2013
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    5

    Default

    [QUOTE=dethow;710800]EXACTLY!!!!!!!
    This is the leadership at IMPBA not wanting anyone to be upset with them. Snowflakes… This is a lack of leadership. Have some balls and write a rule instead of passing the buck down to districts and clubs. All so they (BOD) can say “Don’t complain to us. Not our rules.”

    Have we met?


    Don't you feel that we should take the time to make this as good as we possibly can? Let's give these guys some time to work out the problems that will give us the best not just for this season, but the future as well. I drove by the pond last night going to Bad Brad's......the water is still hard. It's still February.

    Tom
    D-2

  5. #245
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    6,183

    Default

    [QUOTE=Tom Kelly;710816]
    Quote Originally Posted by dethow View Post
    Don't you feel that we should take the time to make this as good as we possibly can? Let's give these guys some time to work out the problems that will give us the best not just for this season, but the future as well. I drove by the pond last night going to Bad Brad's......the water is still hard. It's still February.

    Tom
    D-2
    hehehe Hey Tom, sent you an email too. We're having a club meeting tomorrow. Nothing really pressing just bench race'n mostly. Stop by and have a beverage.
    Noisy person

  6. #246
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    I have a couple questions. Who knows. Maybe Brian or Dave are still seeing these. If we rolled back the hands of time and proposed this class way back when with L x W x Weight...........would there have been any discussion of these rules for last 8 years or so? I personally think there wouldn't have been nearly the hand wringing. We also wouldn't have had this thread. If that's fair (at all) it begs another question.....................what's the down side to having a national rule set for these? What's the deterrent so to speak?
    It’s really hard to ignore the thousands of posts over multiple years regarding this topic: a large percentage of those posts being volatile and heated. Please correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe one or several have publicly stated that NAMBA shouldn’t have allowed the class for records?! As the IMPBA continues to review a path forward we can’t turn a blind eye to these things.

    Are we confident that in addition to the size limitation, a weight restriction is going to solve all of our P-Limited problems?! I don’t know. That’s what we are trying to examine and analyze. Base on history it makes for a fun successful class, but not without some serious baggage.

    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    Mike had asked what the benefit to IMPBA was. Participation is the short answer. Participation is the only reason for any rule set at the hobby level.
    I am asking this in as a serious question; do we not already have participation? Is there long list of racers waiting to enter the IMPBA and start racing as soon as we release a national rule set for P-Limited? If someone is going to tell me YES, then please help me to understand where those racers are.

    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    We could ask that of all the classes. What's the benefit of having rules for say Thunderboat or gas hydro, or sport 20? Guys wanted to race them together. Needed a guideline. Made sense. So why not just let the clubs decide what Thunderboat is? Give them a suggestion but let them do what ever? Why not do that?

    For that matter.....................why have any national rules? It's a leading question obviously. The idea is for people to know what they're getting no matter where they race.
    IMO the answer is less about participation and more about controlling equality primarily focused on Time Trials and National events. All of those classes listed are available for TT’s. As soon as something goes into the book it’s one step short of being chiseled in stone. With that being said you’d better be darn sure you got it right, because it’s not coming out!

    Just a note on Thunder Boat class; the rules for that class call out ONE motor from ONE manufacturer, not to mention there is a pretty substantial set of tech rules that go along with it. It seems to me we are trying to avoid something of that nature for P-Limited.

  7. #247
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    I don't think that's fair Dave. I know these guys. Some of them personally. I did think that for a long time though. The more involved I got the less I thought that. I also used think they were just resistant to change. Stubborn. Whatever. Having been the guy to sift through the yuck I now think of it more as being protective. Cautious even.

    I would label it a curious thing though. There is resistance to a spec set of rules. Is it the history? 10000 page of BS doesn't inspire anyone to want to even talk about spec. However, if we had done something like what we've been talking about of late........... right from the beginning I don't know if we would have 10000 pages of BS. Really would like to understand it. In my huge empty head.
    HA HA HA Some sort of universe alignment just happed for a spit second. Be carful there might be another meteorite heading towards MI in both our directions!

  8. #248
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    3,112

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kelly View Post
    I drove by the pond last night going to Bad Brad's......the water is still hard. It's still February.

    Tom
    D-2
    Good to hear from you Tom. How was the BBQ?

  9. #249
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Kelly View Post
    Don't you feel that we should take the time to make this as good as we possibly can? Let's give these guys some time to work out the problems that will give us the best not just for this season, but the future as well. I drove by the pond last night going to Bad Brad's......the water is still hard. It's still February.

    Tom
    D-2
    What you say makes sense, Tom.
    That is, if it was the intention to work problems out and actually come up with a national rule. Problem is that I've been informed that its not the intention of IMPBA to have a national rule. Its their intent to write a “Technical Bulletin” with recommendations for districts and clubs to self govern and limited/spec motor classes.

    And no, Tom. I don't believe we have met. Have you been to any MMEU meeting or races?
    Last edited by dethow; 02-23-2018 at 12:29 PM.
    Have fun with that....

  10. #250
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by longballlumber View Post
    I am asking this in as a serious question; do we not already have participation? Is there long list of racers waiting to enter the IMPBA and start racing as soon as we release a national rule set for P-Limited? If someone is going to tell me YES, then please help me to understand where those racers are.
    Mike, You want a list of guys waiting to race as soon as we release a national rule set for P-Limited? Go to any hobby shop or spend a little more time at our pond. Guys and kids come around all the time asking what it takes to get involved. We race in a city park with youth baseball fields, for god sakes.

    They glaze over when you start telling them they have to go buy a boat and then change the motor. Oh, and you’ll have to learn how to solder new connectors on because the allowable motors have junk stock connectors that will burn up and/or don’t match the esc of several RTR boats available.

    We have several current RTR boats that are better than past years and that have better connectors already on them. But wait… those boats/motors aren’t allowed.

    And why do you expect the veteran guys at local clubs to just make these classes and run them with no expectation of ever being able to runs these boats at national events or hold records? Is there a list of veterans waiting to spend their time and money on boats with the soul purpose of bringing in and cultivating new guys? Nope... the veterans want to build and race the boats they have at large events and that they can get their name in records books for racing well.
    Last edited by dethow; 02-23-2018 at 12:51 PM.
    Have fun with that....

  11. #251
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    Is it the history? 10000 page of BS doesn't inspire anyone to want to even talk about spec. However, if we had done something like what we've been talking about of late........... right from the beginning I don't know if we would have 10000 pages of BS. Really would like to understand it. In my huge empty head.
    Again... EXACTLY!!!!!!!
    There wouldn't be a 10000 pages of BS if the organizations had actually done something 2 years ago. Lack of leadership.... if they don't want controversy maybe they should act and show some leadership before a group of guys on a forum are forced to try and be the leaders.

    My “good-ole-boys” club statement may not be fair... But it’s what their actions are representing. And that's besides their words that many have made it clear that the organizations will never write a rule with the thought process of being inclusive to RTR.

    Where are majority of boats purchased? Answer: Hobby Shops and On-Line from RTR manufactures.
    What should be the organizations top priority? Answer: Getting participation in the hobby

    So why are the organizations turning their nose up at RTR? and Why are there threads and generally people asking what do we have to do to get participation up? Answer: Because we have a lack of leadership at these organizations that have a top priority of not being involved in controversy. ie… leave us alone and let us “good-ole-boys” race our custom built boats. If you clubs want to include newbies… go right ahead, but don’t expect us to.

    Maybe that’s it… the unspoken structure. Local clubs are responsible to bring in and cultivate new guys so that eventually they can be allowed in the “good-ole-boys” racing events once they learn to drive and build custom boats.
    Sorry for the blunt truth… but that’s about it right there. Maybe we wouldn’t have a membership thirsty for participation if our national organizations weren’t running on that structure.
    Have fun with that....

  12. #252
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    6,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by longballlumber View Post
    HA HA HA Some sort of universe alignment just happed for a spit second. Be carful there might be another meteorite heading towards MI in both our directions!
    I know did you feel the ground shake?!?! All the roads around here just crumbled to bits.

    I don't think there is a line of people looking to jump in but I feel like these are the most likely source of potential additional racer. Screw the rules for a second. Let's just talk boats and a route to racing.

    We keep talking about this average Joe guy. He's gonna be busy. Average Joe thinks....hmmm, what's the deal with rc boats? He goes into a hobby shop learn about boats. He wants easy to operate, semi fast, inexpensive. Debatable that last one. He's not buying a nitro. Nothing on the shelf. No thunderboats on the shelf. He can buy a Zelos for $999. Or he picks from the electrics. For less he can he can get a Skater or Veles with batteries and a charger. Granted the Zeles might be easier to run.

    Now he asks store guy "does anybody race these?" Store guy will likely look at him like a deer in his final moments. Joe will have to do his own research.

    If he finds a gas club to run the Zeles he's going to get killed trying to race it. Nice boat but not super fast factory. If he finds an electric club........he's in with a respectable boat right out of the box.

    That is NOT a line of peeps trying to get in by any stretch of the imagination. It is however (in my opinion of course)the shortest route between a guy that doesn't own a boat to a guy racing. This has been my beef all along and why I kept encouraging people to run limited with NAMBA. Despite the flaws it sorta works. Still tiny numbers.

    Getting guys that own boats to try something new doesn't add to our ranks. If I bought a gas boat.......so what? It's one of umpteen. If Topher from Larry's picks up a Veles we're getting somewhere.

    Yer right about rules never leaving Mike. NAMBA too. When was the last time ECO was even seen here? I saw one in 2005. Still in there.
    Noisy person

  13. #253
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    1,464

    Default

    Got a question, can a guy show up with a completely stock (electrical) UL-1 and race in P Limited with 4s batteries?

  14. #254
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigP View Post
    Got a question, can a guy show up with a completely stock (electrical) UL-1 and race in P Limited with 4s batteries?
    He can yes... but he won't be competitive.
    He'd need to prop the hell out of it which will pull more amps and burn up the stock connectors between motor and esc along with the 60amp esc most likely.
    But the UL-1 is just an out or date boat that would need a lot of things to be competitive along with a really good driver to handle it.

    But if you want to bring a more modern ProBoat UL-19 you could run P limited completely stock and be more competitive. That is if the motor which comes in a UL-19 was legal in NAMBA or if IMPBA had any rules to be inclusive for any RTR boats.

    So as of right now... a guy can't show up with any RTR boat and be allowed and/or competitive IF the club is following current NAMBA or IMPBA rules.
    Have fun with that....

  15. #255
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    CA
    Posts
    1,431

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dethow View Post
    Why would boat manufactures do anything to promote NAMBA or IMPBA? Those organizations do nothing to promote them…
    The current format of NAMBA to promote RTR is go buy a RTR and either put in a slower motor to complete in P-ltd class.....
    I was simply sharing my personal experience with how I began down the path of racing.

    Boat manufactures should promote NAMBA and IMPBA because it sets the hook deeper. I don't think you can say the organizations don't do anything to promote RTR's, perhaps the president etc. aren't promoting rtr's but we are all part of the organization(s) and rtr's have been suggested numerous times by the membership body. To me it comes down to exposure, it ties into the law of large numbers, probability, etc. The more the consumer is around the hobby the more likely they are to purchase more goods related to the hobby. This is a disease, look at guys who are infected and you will find a garage full of boats, parts, batteries, you name it.

    I can't subscribe to the idea that a 80 dollar motor is the limiting factor in participation, plenty of people spend that hand over fist. Perhaps it is a deterrent but no way is it stopping a man (or woman) on a mission from pursing racing. Having to solder connectors? If you have a problem with that you probably shouldn't be looking at remote control vehicles as a hobby, consider it a screening process. If someone is whining about that I don't even want to think of the other BS they could come up with to be dissatisfied. A quick visit to car land, not many RTR cars come with 17 turn motors (stock classs) but that doesn't seem to hurt the numbers of the stock class.

    When I first started pursuing racing there wasn't a class at my local racing pond for the boat I owned, one of the finest RC boat racing sites in the country mind you. I was told I could run my SV27 (blue can) in open oval, which would have been a disaster. I ended up going to Legg lake on a weekend that races were being held just to get a lay of the land. It was at that time I met Properchopper and he more or less broke me off on electric classes being offered, or a lack there of. Within a couple weeks I picked up a LSH hull and not too long after that I picked up a V1 Geico (RTR).

    I'm not saying a boat manufacture would directly or immediately benefit from including information on racing, but I certainly don't see how it could hurt. Without that initial exposure to racing , the sv27 may have been my first and last rc boat.
    Anyhow this all seems a bit off topic so I think I'm going to slowly back away from the keyboard.

  16. #256
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by TheShaughnessy View Post
    I was simply sharing my personal experience with how I began down the path of racing.
    It's all good. You brought a good point and what I said wasn't an argument directed at you. It was directed at the powers to be within the organizations. When I say the organizations don't do anything to promote RTR, I'm talking about the rules and inclusiveness of the rules. Of course we all do our part to buy and recommend RTR boats, but it always comes with modification necessary to be competitive.

    Right now we finally have some RTR boats that could truly come out of the box and be somewhat competitive in a P-ltd or spec class without a lot of modifications outside of good batteries, good prop and good driving. But the organizations are pushing back on rule set which would allow that. That's what I mean that the organizations don't do anything to promote RTR boats.

    I don't race cars so I don't know much on the subject of what can be run out of the box. I'll trust in that there are probably a lot of mods necessary for that. I don't know. But the bottom line is that cars are more popular and don't have issues with participation. The boat organizations should not be using them as an example of what we should do. Maybe we need to be more inclusive to RTR (than cars need to be) in order to get more participation.

    And I do somewhat see your point on the soldering thing. Hell maybe it's our mistake for even saying anything. Maybe we should just let guys go spend the money and then start telling them the things they'll need to do in order to be competitive and/or not burn up their new equipment. I guess I view it as being upfront with people. Wouldn't really want someone feeling like there are things I should have told them before they went and spent the money.
    I just feel like soldering or any modifications would be an easier thing to talk about and get someone to start learning if they could get on the water and have some fun first. I don't really think it'd be fun to bring out a new boat and get lapped by everyone because you can only run a 42mm prop on that 60amp esc with stock connectors. And not fun to burn up your brand new boat attempting to use a 45mm prop without modifying a few things.
    Last edited by dethow; 02-23-2018 at 02:25 PM.
    Have fun with that....

  17. #257
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    6,183

    Default

    I don't know man. I think yer over think'n this Dave. I've been through every rule change since Nicd batteries. We messed up the first round of this back in 2008 IMO. I'm the one that proposed it so I think I get to say that.

    If this takes longer I'm okay with it. I was only asking those questions earlier to get my brain around the apprehension. My understanding thus far from multiple sources is that the controversy has been so vast and of such duration that some are hesitant to even get in the water. It's like stabbing yourself in the leg on purpose. "Those guys are all nuts. Screw that!" Us throwing a poop fit cuz it can't happen soon enough wont help. It only makes people less receptive if anything. What we need to do is prove that this time........it works. Prove that the debate has ended.

    I really believe we're headed in the right direction now. If we are ..........that proof will be in that participation and rule silence. We have to convince people it's the correct direction. Not demand that it is. We may end up with a band-aide for now. So what really. We were already taking a chance with our club rules. Others agreed to come play with us even with them being incomplete so it can't be all bad.
    Noisy person

  18. #258
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dethow View Post
    Right now we finally have some RTR boats that could truly come out of the box and be somewhat competitive in a P-ltd or spec class without a lot of modifications outside of good batteries, good prop and good driving.
    And for those that don't think that's true. MMEU had a new guy come out with his ProMarine Phantom SV33 with stock SSS motor. He killed the competition in offshore with a season point total spread of 1,000+/- over second place. He took second in sprint and only lost by 25 points in a season point total. So he basically tied a veteran whose been racing for years and travels the country racing large events. That's besides the numerous other veterans he flat out beat.
    Have fun with that....

  19. #259
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    mi
    Posts
    26

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dethow View Post
    He can yes... but he won't be competitive.
    He'd need to prop the hell out of it which will pull more amps and burn up the stock connectors between motor and esc along with the 60amp esc most likely.
    But the UL-1 is just an out or date boat that would need a lot of things to be competitive along with a really good driver to handle it.
    Everything you have said is true.
    However, let’s say someone completely unfamiliar with organized fe shows up at Ford Field. And let’s say you guys had some kind of provision in your liability insurance to cover said guy for the evening. (maybe something to consider)

    What would happen? He would get his ass handed to him in a race. That’s a given, but he would also be welcomed openly and enjoy getting his ass handed to him. Terry would take the time to offer little tidbits of info, advice and encouragement. All the while setting the hook a little deeper if you will.
    If FE is truelly his thing he’ll be back and looking to become more competitive.
    You just have to figure out a way to let them play enough to get addicted.

  20. #260
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    1,500

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlietuna1 View Post
    You just have to figure out a way to let them play enough to get addicted.
    Agreed

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlietuna1 View Post
    However, let’s say someone completely unfamiliar with organized fe shows up at Ford Field. And let’s say you guys had some kind of provision in your liability insurance to cover said guy for the evening. (maybe something to consider)
    We actually have that. It's single event coverage and I think cost is $10.
    First step thou is the person having a boat that is allowed in classes. When MMEU was with NAMBA that was difficult. Now that we're with IMPBA and basically write our own club rules that's why it's easier and someone like Chris F. came in a killed it last season.
    Have fun with that....

  21. #261
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    1,464

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dethow View Post
    He can yes... but he won't be competitive.
    He'd need to prop the hell out of it which will pull more amps and burn up the stock connectors between motor and esc along with the 60amp esc most likely.
    But the UL-1 is just an out or date boat that would need a lot of things to be competitive along with a really good driver to handle it.

    But if you want to bring a more modern ProBoat UL-19 you could run P limited completely stock and be more competitive. That is if the motor which comes in a UL-19 was legal in NAMBA or if IMPBA had any rules to be inclusive for any RTR boats.

    So as of right now... a guy can't show up with any RTR boat and be allowed and/or competitive IF the club is following current NAMBA or IMPBA rules.
    I think most of the motors on the list are low amp motors. I can see maybe pushing 90-100A, but after that it’s getting extreme on heat... So in this Limited class, folks are just putting in big ESC’s, run until they fry and replace the motor? I’m just trying to figure out how much over-amp I got to contend with to compete... Any numbers (as long as they’re good numbers, lol!) would help!

  22. #262
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    mi
    Posts
    26

    Default

    “First step thou is the person having a boat that is allowed in classes.”
    At the club level? Obviously not for your points racing. Or maybe be a little loosey goosey with rules, under the right circumstances.

    Wish I knew about your temporary liability coverage. On a few occasions I’ve seen different adults running electrics in the little pond at Dakota Highschool just didn’t know how all that would work out.

  23. #263
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    6,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by dethow View Post
    We actually have that. It's single event coverage and I think cost is $10.
    That's actually a riddle I haven't cracked.

    With IMPBA you can get a temporary membership. It's not temp event insurance. Basically you become a member for the duration of an event. It's only available to you if you are already a member of another organization. NAMBA or AMA or something like that. To try out a boat vs actually racing isn't quite the same thing.

    To use the pond, the city wants each person to be insured. We make sure that is the case as we want to use their grounds/pond.

    To participate in an event, IMPBA needs everyone to be a member. Allowing an individual to participate without membership will result in stiff penalties to the host club. So we can't let that happen.

    NAMBA was similar but different They have single event insurance (SEI). Today, a DD can't accept the SEI fee on site like before. An interested individual has to get their SEI through the NAMBA website. Same thing, supposed to be for an actual event.

    Neither of these have anything to do with the organizations BTW. It's been dictated to them by the insurance. It does make it tougher in that on certain bodies of water you can't just hand a guy a controller and say "try it, you'll like it!". For us it's particularly counter intuitive. We have a closed course with very limited access. A single point of entry. Exposure of the public to our boats is non-existant. Liability exposure is nil but we still have to be very aware of the regulations set forth by both the City and IMPBA to stay out of trouble.
    Noisy person

  24. #264
    Join Date
    Apr 2017
    Location
    mi
    Posts
    26

    Default

    If I see this guy running a boat in a glorified drainage ditch can I say “Hey, there’s a bunch o’lunatics racing these things over there. You should go check them out” ?
    I was leary of doing so thinking, if this guy shows up with his boat and you have to turn him away because of the insurance thing. He mightbbe put off.

  25. #265
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ga
    Posts
    5,266

    Default

    Guys,

    A IMPBA host club can put a driver on the stand for $1. Must have a spotter, not allowed in the hot pits etc. Not valid for racing.
    https://nebula.wsimg.com/354e649c66c...&alloworigin=1

    C. Non-Member Coverage
    The insurance does not cover any person who is not a paid member of IMPBA regardless of what
    other club or organization he may belong. Paid members of other boating organizations may pay the Single-Event fee for membership dues during that event only.
    MODEL BOAT RACER
    IMPBA President
    District 13 Director 2011- present
    IMPBA National Records Director 2009-2019
    IMPBA 19887L CD
    NAMBA 1169

  26. #266
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    6,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Charlietuna1 View Post
    If I see this guy running a boat in a glorified drainage ditch can I say “Hey, there’s a bunch o’lunatics racing these things over there. You should go check them out” ?
    I was leary of doing so thinking, if this guy shows up with his boat and you have to turn him away because of the insurance thing. He mightbbe put off.
    Yep, it's happened. However, think back to the retention pond you fell in over on 26 mile. That's the drainage ditch where I used to run. Heck, we ran a club race there. I've raced all over the country since then. Gotta float before we can race.
    Noisy person

  27. #267
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    6,183

    Default

    Doug, you are the man!
    Noisy person

  28. #268
    Join Date
    Oct 2009
    Location
    MI
    Posts
    6,183

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CraigP View Post
    Got a question, can a guy show up with a completely stock (electrical) UL-1 and race in P Limited with 4s batteries?
    Almost missed this one. We have a guy that's raced with us for eons that runs a UL1. He's raced it in both limited sport and full P sport. He's not the fastest but sometimes finishing is enough. Frequently the super fast guys are upside down. Here comes Marc!!!

    I just checked and he's signed up for P sport for the nationals. I'm quite certain he'll run the UL1.
    Last edited by T.S.Davis; 02-23-2018 at 04:43 PM.
    Noisy person

  29. #269
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Ga
    Posts
    5,266

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    Doug, you are the man!
    Thanks for noticing.
    The "Guest fee" idea came up at a BOD meeting. It was a great idea and the office found a way to make it happen.
    MODEL BOAT RACER
    IMPBA President
    District 13 Director 2011- present
    IMPBA National Records Director 2009-2019
    IMPBA 19887L CD
    NAMBA 1169

  30. #270
    Join Date
    May 2017
    Location
    OK
    Posts
    1,464

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by T.S.Davis View Post
    Almost missed this one. We have a guy that's raced with us for eons that runs a UL1. He's raced it in both limited sport and full P sport. He's not the fastest but sometimes finishing is enough. Frequently the super fat guys are upside down. Here comes Marc!!!

    I just checked and he's signed up for P sport for the nationals. I'm quite certain he'll run the UL1.
    The boat is pretty quick with a S220 and about 180g of weight in the nose. But the thing I’m trying to get my head wrapped around is how much a typical Limited guy is over amping the motor. From the OSE site, the AQUG7001 is spec’d at 50a cont and 80a@5sec surge. So let’s say we super cool it the best you can, and run it at 60A cont. From what I’ve read here, there are guys with 200A ESC’s in the boat. So what is a 200A ESC doing paired to a 60A motor? Some of you guys are pushing that motor up to 300% over max current! Now at some point, that stator is going to saturate and just like that, the ESC is looking at nearly a dead nuts short. So some guys figure out IF I COULD JUST GET 2, maybe 3 more turns of wire on each stator coil, I just might make it live. so this class, from an outsider looking in, is about playing chicken with who can go closer to the saturation point and get away with it.

    It’s probably cheaper to run in Open because your less likely to be pushing lines like that, just get a bigger motor. So your Limited class is actually your high tech class and Open lower because you can always just put a bigger motor and not have to worry about contending with a 300% over rate... I think that somehow, things went wrong when the over rates got crazy.

Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 7891011 LastLast

Bookmarks

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •