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Thread: Not So Boldly Going Where Others Have Gone Before. RC Nano-Hydro

  1. #1

    Default Not So Boldly Going Where Others Have Gone Before. RC Nano-Hydro

    When I first saw the tiny 7" Casper hydro I was smitten, first I thought I would love to convert one to RC, and then after seeing some better photos I thought I would love to design and build something kind of similar myself to my tastes and specs, hoping to improve on it.

    I have since been inspired and spured on by Dr. Jet's Casper hydro conversion that he is working on. Thanks Dr.

    This is my atempt at doing something the same size but a little more racy, so it is based around specs I would give a Naviga Rigger, but massaged to fit a semi scale hydro body. Its basic dimensions are 7"x4", 1/3 sponson - 2/3 afterplane, 13mm wide sponsons, 10mm deep, with 6degrees AoA and 35degree anti-submarine wedges, 5mm of airtrap for 2/3 of the afterplane. it is the first boat I have drawn out full size on an A4 sheet of paper and had room to spare.

    The gear I am using is :-
    This 6.5g 4600kv outrunner
    This 2g 5A ESC
    This 9g 300mAh 1s 20c LiPo
    This 1.9g servo
    This 3.5g RX
    And these Rivos XS props, I saw a Rivos XS today and thought it was a rebadged Magic Vee, but its prop is a 2 blader of about 20-22mm x 1.2 pitch with a 3mm shaft (by eye, I forgot the calipers) and a decent shape for surface drive, it should suit my needs nicely, I ordered a set so I will give measurements when I get them.

    2018-01-15.jpg
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  2. #2
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    Mmmmm...... I like it!! My goal on the Casper is to get it to run "on step" and be controllable. You plan looks like it will be a real goer.

    What material or combination of materials are you planning to use?
    Last edited by Dr. Jet; 01-15-2018 at 07:50 PM. Reason: Add Questions
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  3. #3

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    The main build material will be depron, I have enough on hand to make 20 of these little buggers already, probably with carbon motor mount and bracketry, I thing I have enough 2x200gsm 0.2mm sheet to make them from.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  4. #4

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    I have been aiming for 15mph, but I just worked out the scale speed for a 1:43 scale modern unlimited which would be 30mph.

    As Living on the coast I never get glass water and the smallest ripple is quite a heavy swell at 1:43 scale, I am still going to shoot for 15mph which is about as fast as I think I can keep it on the water.

    I do have a plan if it looks stupidly slow, although unfortunately it is not FE.

    While I was at the model shop checking out tiny props, I saw a cute little 450mm span EPP foam chuck glider called the Fox, for just a few quid, I bought it cut it in half and hollowed it out, making plenty of space for the gear above in it, I ordered some extra servos too.
    Last edited by NativePaul; 01-17-2018 at 05:41 AM.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  5. #5

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    Paul at 1:43 scale won't a Mr Turtle pool work? J/K... But a pool perhaps

  6. #6

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    The props arrived already, I only ordered them after work yesterday, Sussex Model Centre get a shout out for that as they are not an item that OSE stock.

    Their Diameter is 17.3mm, the boss is 6mm, and the bore is 2mm smooth, there is no dog or thread, although looking at the boat it looked like a dog, but I think it is just compression between a flat collar where the dog goes and the prop nut. I don't have the facility to measure pitch, but they are VERY progressive, it looks like 0 at what little tongue they have and 1.6 at the trailing edge. If it still gets up onto the plane, performance should be increased greatly by further detounging, the good thing is they come in packs of 3 so there is some experimentation to be done without disaster.
    Last edited by NativePaul; 01-18-2018 at 01:35 AM.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  7. #7

    Cool

    I have been aiming for 15mph, but I just worked out the scale speed for a 1:43 scale modern unlimited which would be 30mph.....
    I am curious, are you saying that a 1:43 scale model would have to travel at 30 mph to be “scale” to an Unlimited Hydro? Actually, to match a full-scale speed of 180 mph a 1:43 model only needs about 4 mph. Just wondering.


    .
    ERROR 604 - Caller's Buffer Is Too Small
    1. Ensure that your port is not configured to a mini plug
    2. If you are still having problems, contact someone

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluid View Post
    I am curious, are you saying that a 1:43 scale model would have to travel at 30 mph to be “scale” to an Unlimited Hydro? Actually, to match a full-scale speed of 180 mph a 1:43 model only needs about 4 mph. Just wondering.


    .
    Speed versus scale is not linear. You can't just divide scale ratio into full-size speed to get scale speed. It's a function of volume (i.e. a cubic factor). I've searched the 'Net for an appropriate equation, but have yet to find one. On this size of model, 15~20 mph MIGHT be somewhere close to "scale". A lot depends on the eye of the viewer.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  9. #9

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    Nothing depends “on the eye of the viewer”, it is physics. Unfortunately, I used the wrong spread sheet to calculate in my previous post, forgive me

    The correct formula to calculate scale speed is the square root of the scale times the full-scale speed. In this case it is: square root of (1/43) x 185 = 28 mph

    So Paul was, as usual, correct.



    .
    ERROR 604 - Caller's Buffer Is Too Small
    1. Ensure that your port is not configured to a mini plug
    2. If you are still having problems, contact someone

  10. #10

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    I was basing it on a 200mph top speed as the unlimited site says they reach over 200 in the straights, but I have never seen an unlimited race, do they only hit 200 in unusually calm weather conditions, is 185 more realistic?

    The scale factor scales the distances, but you have to scale the time as well to make it look realistic, which is why you use the square of the scale factor.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  11. #11

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    I recieved the final piece of the puzzle through the post this morning. Happily all the actual weight were lower than quoted apart form the servo, and by more than enough to make up for the servo.

    My bank notes and coinage are different sizes to yours, so I have pictured the gear on a green and black store card of the usual size.

    DSC_0360.jpg
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  12. #12
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    I'm excited to see how this works out for you. I just went through my "Stash-O-Stuff" and discovered I have a ton of Depron in a variety of thicknesses, AND a Fox chuck glider........

    Start cutting and gluing!!
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  13. #13

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    I redrew the plans last night, I thought I recalled them being 7", not 7.5", so I stretched the width and lengthened the afterplane to make it 7.5x4.

    I wish I had a variety of thicknesses, I have 2mm and 3mm, but I think 1mm would have been ideal for the sheeting, and 6mm+ would make carving the canopy easier.

    Never mind, I will get building this evening.

    It is surprising how differently we can attack the same problem, with my entire electrical/electronics package weighing less than your ESC, however while I am confident of reaching my original goal, I wish I had worked out the scale speed before I ordered anything. I was obsessed by the videos of them racing and them being effectively very inefficient displacement monohulls, that look like hydros. I wanted to avoid that at all costs so went for the lightest gear I thought would push it at a decent pace so it would be easier to get up on the plane. It is however slightly depressing knowing that even if it is a success, it only has the pitch speed to hit about half it's scale speed.

    Not that if I was starting again I would go your route entirely, it would still worry me about getting up on plane only being a little lighter than stock, despite the extra power, but if I had of stepped up to a 10g outrunner, a 7g 6A ESC, and a 2s 300mAh battery, the package would still weigh less than your battery, yet would have the pitch speed to at least attempt to reach scale speed.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  14. #14

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    It took a lot longer to build than I thought it would, The Rocket odouerless cyano I bought takes a LOT longer to go off than whetever I used last time I built from depron, and it barely responded to the kicker I have, so a lot of taping, clamping, and waiting was needed.

    I did get the hull built eventually though, it looks done, but I still have to cut the hatch and build a lip for it to sit on so there is maybe another .1 of a gram more to add to the hull.

    It has the motor mount and motor fitted and built inside, but no hardware or electrics/electronics other than that fitted at this time. The weight as it stands is 13.2 or 13.3g my scales cant make up their mind. So probably about 8.5g for the bare hull.

    nano_7845.jpgnano_7846.jpgnano_7848.jpg
    Opposite of normal, the pictures make it look terrible on my 42" monitor as blown up 4x bigger than it is in real life I can see all the flaws.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  15. #15
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    Looking good! Some thoughts: With a slightly different cowl, I see a Nano Atlas Blue Blaster... Are you going to make your plans public? The sponson length seems a bit short though; isn't the balance point going to wind up rather far behind the aft end of them making it harder to get the stern out of the water and riding on the prop? I suppose being all Depron, you could stuff some of the electronics in the sponsons and get some mass forward.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  16. #16

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    Yeah the cowl is pretty ugly, I did some more sanding to the canopy and it is not quite as bad now, but it will never be pretty. The glue was so slow I used a single cone rather than the sleeker lobsterback I was planing but would have added an extra day to the build.

    It won't be a be an atlas, I know they are popular, but it is one of my least liked unlimiteds. If it is lucky it will get some sort of sharpie art.

    The Plans are in the first post, I just stretched the afterplane by half an inch, added 10 mm to the tunnel width, and 2.5mm to the sponson length, so blowing up the plan shown by 8% would near as damn it give you what I built.

    The longer the afterplane the better it will ride, it is so light the CoG is not an issue, as it stands the battery weighs more than the hull and can be fitted forward of the sponson heels, I can get the CoG in front of the sponson heels without having to put anything in the sponsons, adding hardware will move that back a lot, but I cant imagine it being an issue getting the CoG to 20% of the afterplane, which is where I think I want it.

    The one thing that worries me is the size of the prop hub (6mm) is the Kyosho hub as big? I really don't want to, but I can foresee having to give it a ski to hide the huge hub hydrodynamically, which would require me to move the CoG backwards after the build, so I may have to make the battery removable.
    Last edited by NativePaul; 02-13-2018 at 12:45 PM.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  17. #17
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    The Kyosho prop hub is 4mm.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  18. #18
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    Awesome project! Good job!
    32" carbon rivercat single 4s 102mph, 27” mini Rivercat 92mph, kbb34 91mph, jessej micro cat(too fast) was

  19. #19

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    A 4mm hub would be sweet only, a touch bigger than the strut. you said in your thread that the Kyosho was about 14mm diameter, is that measured and close to, or a guestimate? I was well off on my guestimate of the Rivos props thinking they looked 20-22mm but were actually only 17.3mm.

    Could you take some pics of the Kyosho props so I can see the pitch ramp, if the Kyosho is less progressive it may need less detongueing and have as much finished blade area despite being 3mm smaller.

    Do you have a part number and/or a link for the Kyosho props, my google skills are failing me and I cant find them without driveshafts attached.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  20. #20
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    I measured it at 14mm. Not a very progressive ramp, not a whole lot of tongue. I think it's pretty much ready to go as-is. The only way I found one was to buy the rudder bracket set. https://www.ebay.com/itm/Kyosho-BM15...19.m1438.l2649
    Attached Images Attached Images
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  21. #21

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    Thanks for the link, that is a totally different and much better looking prop than the Kyosho ones I found with the driveshafts attached. While I cant find one closer than Japan either, that part number found a manual and confirmed that the prop only has one part number which is for the whole rudder bracket set, so is not available separate.

    Is the bore 2mm? Could I get a pic looking down a blade too please? Sorry for the questions but it will cost over £10 to get one to me as opposed to under £7 for 3 of the Rivos props, so I want to be 100% sure before purchasing as I can't afford to buy a few to work differently.

    That prop makes your strut look huge, the Rivos props I got may be better suited to you with their 2x6mm hub, bigger diameter and low initial pitch, it should have more hole shot to maximise your chances of plaining, worth a go if it doesn't work with the Kyosho.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  22. #22
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    I don't recall exactly what the bore is. I think it's about 2.2 or 2.3mm. I just turned down a piece of brass until it was a push fit.

    I want to start with the smallest prop I can find as I really don't know how the motor will handle the load. It is an inrunner (lower torque than an outrunner) and it has a fairly high Kv for 2S (4500 rpm/V). On my mini hulls (17" or so), I run outrunners between 3000 and 4000 rpm/V on 2S with great performance on props between 26 and 30mm.

    Photos to come....
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  23. #23
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    Here you go....
    Attached Images Attached Images
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  24. #24

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    Thanks, looks good, 2mm Bore?
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

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    I think it was 2.2 or 2.3. I never measured it, I just turned down some stock until it fit. I'll measure it now.
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

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    The narrow end of my tapered shaft is 2.04mm. I didn't pull the prop to measure the wide portion of the shaft, but it is probably 2.06~2.07mm; so the bore is most likely 2mm (plus or minus manufacturing tolerances).
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  27. #27

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    I made the hardware tonight.


    Damn the weight of the stuffing tube.
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  28. #28
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    Photos?? Photos of the inside; the motor mount and such??
    A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves

  29. #29

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    I have not opened her up and fitted it all yet, maybe I will get her finished tomorow, here is the hardware though.
    nano_7853.jpgnano_7856.jpgnano_7860.jpgnano_7863.jpgnano_7866.jpg
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

  30. #30

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    All together now, 3.4g for all the hardware, .6g of which is a 20mm stuffing tube.
    nano_7869.jpg
    Paul "tug Killer" Upton-Taylor, Cat lover.
    FastElectricBoats.co.uk

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