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Thread: (Moved)Another P Limited / Spec motor discussion

  1. #121
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    To all that only want size limits and NO weight limit,
    Read Marks post above about the 1415 Neu Motors - They meet the size limits-- NOW WHAT DO YOU DO- how many years would it take to make another change to the rule set? by that time all Spec classes would be dead.

    Weight limits are NO big deal if you do some research on what things weigh first, Or ask nice a I bet Mike would post a copy on here.

    Mike Ball has been building a list of all the motor weights.
    Plug weights with solder.
    Cooler can weights.

    With a motor weight MAX set for the IMPBA Nat's

    The custom made NEU motors are OUT.
    Basically all that will need to be done is look at the motor - OK it is a UL-1- 2030 - 2Y
    You know it is under the size limit and the weight limit.--GOOD to GO

    Now if you see a motor that is stuffed with copper (Could be the same 2030 custom wound) - you can weigh it.

    With the above list you subtract the cooler, plug and solder weight. to see if the motor is legal.

    I will bet that less then 3% of motors will ever be taken out of a boat at the Nat.s

    Larry
    Last edited by TRUCKPULL; 04-22-2018 at 12:15 AM.
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  2. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by dethow View Post
    Ray, I don't hate you or Darin. You are both probably very nice people.

    Yes... it IS true I don't like your lack of understanding that without a weight limit there is no rule that will work. The facts on that will play out as we see what these 1415s can do. And thus, what other copper heavy custom motors cramed into even a 36.3mm a 60mm can will do. A weight limit will stop that from hapening.
    Brian Baaus gave enough of an opinion of that subject already that resulted in the size only proposals being pulled. So I think there may be something there. It's not just MY ignorant beliefs.

    And I don't understand the thing of waiting to see how the nats go in Michigan. Same motors that were run in last years MI Cup will be at the nats. No changes. There's nothing new happening at the nats that will change anything. The only thing that changes anything is getting some actual water time with the 1415s.
    They will not be at the nats.


    Look... I AM sorry things got out of hand.

    Between what was being said here and what was being said in our PMs... it appeared to me that you were basically pushing a no weight limit agenda before we even had done anything with the 1415s.
    And then to top it off you were saying you WILL be writing a proposal after the nats but in ALL REALITY you are looking to make a max length of 60mm.
    I may be wrong, but it seems to me that you are doing everything possible to try and get the NAMBA proposal in first and before the IMPBA guys have had this season (that they want) to test and mule things over.
    You state that you want both organizations to have the same rules... as I think all of us do.
    So I feel your statements are an attempt to rush a proposal that fits your desires and then try to bully the IMPBA guys into following suit so we can have the same rules. That's what I see and that's why I got frustrated.



    I wanted to respond to to your statements Ray because I thought it necessary to try and calmly describe why am frustrated. As others are requesting... I'd like to just let this go for now. If you feel the need to defend yourself regarding my feelings on your intentions then so be it.
    I've explained my feelings on the matter and I'd just like to get some testing and facts before any of this is discussed further.
    Well ray yes things got out of hand.. and like I said before.. there are always 2 sides..u may like the weight thing I may not.. that’s why there needs to be s discussion.. and testing.. as for writing a proposal and pushing it through that’s not how it works.. first a person makes a proposal usually s district will then vote on it and test it..then it can go to the bod for approval then out to a membership vote.. it just can’t be pushed through..I would again like to see both organizations be in same page or at least close..I get both sides of the weight limit.. but I lean towards more of s size restriction.. but that’s my opinion.. and really the only time this would come up would be st a national event.. or bigger races.. I do think the size limit was a great idea to keep limited racing alive.. and the biggest classes.. people are always going to push the limits.. that’s just the nature..I’m not sure there is the perfect snswer to spec racing..unless u choose one motor and prop..but then u run the risk of having said motor be discontinued.. and or people crying bias....

  3. #123
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    Ray, just want to make sure you know that my name is Dave. You appear to have addressed me as Ray several times. Ray is your name.

    And YES, things did get out of hand. I suggested you take your NAMBA rule proposal talk over to a NAMBA thread and then I was forced to take a barrage of personal attacks from you. I specifically said we didn't want your drama here and I foolishly opened the door for you to bring it. Lesson learned.

    Even you admitted in a post before I got involved that what you were saying/doing COULD be viewed as starting drama. From Post #93:
    Quote Originally Posted by rayzerdesigns View Post
    .. you know me I’m not trying to start drama.. in fact want it to go away..
    Whereas from my second post on the matter #96:
    Quote Originally Posted by dethow View Post
    The weight thing will play out. I really don't want to get back into that debate. And I personally think it should be left alone for a while and lets see how it goes this season. This stuff has been talked and talked... lets take some time to race and test.
    I woke up this morning and I suddenly remembered a phone call I got several months back. The specific reason for the call was to warn me not to pay any attention to you. I know that person is setting back and saying "Dave, I told you". And to that person... I'm sorry! I forgot that you warned me about this.

    __________________________________________________ _____

    But moving past all that... I'm really glad to hear that it sounds like it is NOT your intention to RUSH a proposal. I never said you were going to PUSH one through. I am aware of the process and know one individual can not push anything. But you could RUSH to submitting a proposal and get the process started which would put more pressure on IMPBA to follow suit.

    But again... I'm glad that it sounds like you don't want to do that and that you want to work with IMPBA to try and have a same or very similar proposal submitted. So with that I trust you will have no problem waiting for our IMPBA FE director, Mike Ball, to come to a resolution on the issue. It'd be great if he could have until the end of the 2018 race season to make a recommendation. That may be for a size limit only, or a size limit with a weight limit included, or that no national rule set at all is recommended for IMPBA. At that time I think it'd be completely appropriate for NAMBA to move forward with whatever they want to do. And at that time NAMBA may choose to split ways and not have a similar rule proposal. And maybe Mike will have his recommendation prior to the end of the season. Who knows?

    I'm going to check in with Mike and see if he'd like to have (For Free) one of my 1415 motors for his own personal testing. I want to GIVE him a 1415 2D 2050kv motor which measures 36.55mm x 61.65mm with weight of 294g. I believe this would be the best kv to test against some of the other big players.
    This is not to borrow. I want him to have the freedom to push it to the limits without having to worry about having to buy it if he breaks it. A little bit of an olive branch after my barrage of insults directed at him and the BODs for trying to move away from a national rule set. I now realize that the only way we will move forward on this is with some good testing by an experienced and trusted person. I hope Mike will take me up on the offer. But who knows... maybe he already ordered one for himself.

    There's nothing that's going to come from the Nats in Michigan that's going to provide information on what rule set should be written. And no offense to Terry, but he's not the decision maker for IMPBA. The BODs is, and Mike Ball's opinion on the matter is the one that matters, if you will. Terry has every right to submit a proposal and so do you, but like last time... the BODs will just pull them and not let them proceed if they don't like them.

    So in the end... you have your opinion and I, along with others have a difference of opinion on the matter. Lets take some time do some testing and see where this all goes at the end of 2018. I don't see the need to rush into writing proposals in the next couple months. The only point I see coming from that is the belief that the first one submitted should try to be followed by the other organization.

    It sounds like you want to work with IMPBA to come up with a similar rule set. So I thank you for your patients.
    Have fun with that....

  4. #124
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    Default IMPBA Motor Rules Idea Number @#?*!

    Hey everyone,
    I had a thought this morning and wanted to throw it out there for thoughts.

    But before I do, I want it to be known that I will not be participating in this thread beyond throwing out this initial starter on the idea. Furthermore, I’d like to suggest that everyone simply comment with an agree or disagree with maybe a small reason why or a brief addition to better the idea or process.

    Please try and refrain from attempting to tell another person why they are wrong. IOW… let’s try to be civil and not turn this into another “dust up”.
    We’re on the right path right out of the gate simply by me not being involved, right?



    Here it is: Approved MOTOR LIST for IMPBA Spec Motor Classes.

    1.) The list would start with the inclusion of all motors which are on the current NAMBA P-Limited Motor List and there would be a process to add motors to the list.

    2.) There would be the creation of a “Technical Committee” that would do bench and on water testing/data logging to provide an opinion on a motor’s performance in comparison to those already on the list. This committee could be assembled by the BODs or maybe could be one individual from each district which would be elected/voted in by the club members.

    3.) Each committee member would provide their own results/conclusions/opinions/recommendations to the BODs whom would make the final determination on if a particular motor would be added to the list. Some factors of approval would be ease of availability, price, and performance. I brief statement on reason for approval or disapproval with how each member of BODs voted would be made public.

    4.) All IMPBA members would have the availability to submit a proposal for a motor to be reviewed by the committee for approval. The first immediate requirement in order to even be qualified for review would be the that the motor must have maximum dimensions of 37mm x 62mm.

    5.) Once a motor is put on the list, it stays on the list. This way no one is ever forced to change over their fleet of motors.


    And Go….
    .
    .
    Last edited by dethow; 04-25-2018 at 12:03 PM. Reason: Spelling/Grammar Error
    Have fun with that....

  5. #125
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    This discussion should just die for a while. Summer is eventually coming let's have fun.

  6. #126
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    Howard is correct, for now let clubs decide what they want to run, far easier than all the @#?*! drama.



    .
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  7. #127
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    Quote Originally Posted by photohoward1 View Post
    This discussion should just die for a while. Summer is eventually coming let's have fun.
    I agree with Howard on this.

    David give it a rest.

    Or even better . DOUG S. can you delete this thread??

    Larry
    Last edited by TRUCKPULL; 04-25-2018 at 04:12 PM.
    Past NAMBA- P Mono -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Past NAMBA- P Sport -1 Mile Race Record holder
    Bump & Grind Racing Props -We Like Em Smooth & Wet

  8. #128
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    Howard, Jay, Larry, I agree, as do many others.
    Since I had multiple requests over the weekend on into Monday to close this thread, I just merged them (don't want to be accused of censorship again) and will shut it down.

    See you at the pond!
    TOY BOAT RACER
    IMPBA Dist.13 Director
    IMPBA National Records Director 2009-2019
    IMPBA 19887CD
    NAMBA 1169

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